Development Lab / Learn New Position question

[ChrisJNelson]

When I choose this specific development lab task, what determines the "new position" a guy is learning?

For example, let's say I have a shortstop and I want him to learn second base in the development lab. What tells the lab that the "new position" I want him to learn is second base? If I change his position to that or something else?

EDIT: So it seems to not let me choose. I moved a guy to CF and told him to learn a new position, and it taught him third base. So is the game just choosing a new position based on his current position/skill set? Seems like we should be able to choose where to focus.

[tonnage]

Originally Posted by ChrisJNelson

So is the game just choosing a new position based on his current position/skill set?

Yes.

[ChrisJNelson]

Originally Posted by tonnage

Yes.

Pretty weird IMO we can't say "hey, practice THIS position" within this feature. I get guys are limited and probably would struggle at certain things, but we should at least be able to choose.

[Will Beh]

Right now the position they learn is semi-random based upon things like their current position, their current ratings, handedness, etc. For example, your second baseman will be waaay more likely to learn third more than he would learn right field.

While not necessarily opposed to adding a choice next year, the worry is that it allows the system to be abused. Like it would allow people to just add all their players to learn catcher until one works for example.
Also, the position someone learns in real life isn't just whatever the team wants (you can't ask all your first basemen to try out SS) because they simply don't have the skillset.

If you want to force a guy to learn a specific position, you can simply force start him there during spring training and he may get the experience.
The difference between the lab program and playing them there in spring training is that the dev program will also increase (if only a little) their underlying defensive abilities, not just their experience at the position. The "spirit" of the dev lab new position program is that the staff evaluates the guy and helps him learn a position that comes naturally to him.

[ChrisJNelson]

Originally Posted by Will Beh

Right now the position they learn is semi-random based upon things like their current position, their current ratings, handedness, etc. For example, your second baseman will be waaay more likely to learn third more than he would learn right field.

While not necessarily opposed to adding a choice next year, the worry is that it allows the system to be abused. Like it would allow people to just add all their players to learn catcher until one works for example.
Also, the position someone learns in real life isn't just whatever the team wants (you can't ask all your first basemen to try out SS) because they simply don't have the skillset.

If you want to force a guy to learn a specific position, you can simply force start him there during spring training and he may get the experience.
The difference between the lab program and playing them there in spring training is that the dev program will also increase (if only a little) their underlying defensive abilities, not just their experience at the position. The "spirit" of the dev lab new position program is that the staff evaluates the guy and helps him learn a position that comes naturally to him.

Gotcha, appreciate the insight!

A pretty straightforward way to avoid abuse would just be to make it super hard or impossible to learn an obviously "unreasonable" position. A slow 1B should basically just fail at learning SS or CF every time, or almost anyone learning catcher.

But on the other hand, I should be able to tell a SS if I want him to learn 1B, 2B, or 3B and it should be at least possible.

I get that it's a new feature, this was just my first thought. I doubt I will use the "learn new position" feature in the current state.

[progen]

Originally Posted by Will Beh

Right now the position they learn is semi-random based upon things like their current position, their current ratings, handedness, etc. For example, your second baseman will be waaay more likely to learn third more than he would learn right field.

While not necessarily opposed to adding a choice next year, the worry is that it allows the system to be abused. Like it would allow people to just add all their players to learn catcher until one works for example.
Also, the position someone learns in real life isn't just whatever the team wants (you can't ask all your first basemen to try out SS) because they simply don't have the skillset.

If you want to force a guy to learn a specific position, you can simply force start him there during spring training and he may get the experience.
The difference between the lab program and playing them there in spring training is that the dev program will also increase (if only a little) their underlying defensive abilities, not just their experience at the position. The "spirit" of the dev lab new position program is that the staff evaluates the guy and helps him learn a position that comes naturally to him.

Like this explanation Will. Appreciate the update. Going slowly through my first save, having a blast. And maybe just me, but simming seasons to gain some history before I take over an expansion team ran a bit faster than 24.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Will Beh

Right now the position they learn is semi-random based upon things like their current position, their current ratings, handedness, etc. For example, your second baseman will be waaay more likely to learn third more than he would learn right field.

While not necessarily opposed to adding a choice next year, the worry is that it allows the system to be abused. Like it would allow people to just add all their players to learn catcher until one works for example.
Also, the position someone learns in real life isn't just whatever the team wants (you can't ask all your first basemen to try out SS) because they simply don't have the skillset.

If you want to force a guy to learn a specific position, you can simply force start him there during spring training and he may get the experience.
The difference between the lab program and playing them there in spring training is that the dev program will also increase (if only a little) their underlying defensive abilities, not just their experience at the position. The "spirit" of the dev lab new position program is that the staff evaluates the guy and helps him learn a position that comes naturally to him.

Totally understand and appreciate you taking the cautious approach with this being the first version. My first thought when the feature was announced was "I hope this isn't too easy".

My thought would be to give the user a choice based on the staff's recommendations. Instead of the AI picking only 3b for the 2b you are looking to train at another position, it comes back with "it looks like Joe B. has the skills to learn 3b, 1b, or LF". User then selects the option he likes or passes if he doesn't like any of the options. Of course retaining the possibility that the staff could still come back with only one position.

I'm sure many options have already run through your mind on what could change, my posted idea included.

[BigLou]

Originally Posted by Will Beh

Right now the position they learn is semi-random based upon things like their current position, their current ratings, handedness, etc. For example, your second baseman will be waaay more likely to learn third more than he would learn right field.

While not necessarily opposed to adding a choice next year, the worry is that it allows the system to be abused. Like it would allow people to just add all their players to learn catcher until one works for example.
Also, the position someone learns in real life isn't just whatever the team wants (you can't ask all your first basemen to try out SS) because they simply don't have the skillset.

If you want to force a guy to learn a specific position, you can simply force start him there during spring training and he may get the experience.
The difference between the lab program and playing them there in spring training is that the dev program will also increase (if only a little) their underlying defensive abilities, not just their experience at the position. The "spirit" of the dev lab new position program is that the staff evaluates the guy and helps him learn a position that comes naturally to him.

Excellent. Thank you for the detailed reasoning.

[ahunter5]

I have a somewhat related question. I don't have the game yet (Steam user), so this may be an obvious answer.

Is it possible to have a reliever stretched out to become a starter using the performance lab? Something similar to what the Yankees did with Michael King.

[Will Beh]

Originally Posted by ahunter5

I have a somewhat related question. I don't have the game yet (Steam user), so this may be an obvious answer.

Is it possible to have a reliever stretched out to become a starter using the performance lab? Something similar to what the Yankees did with Michael King.

Yep 100%! It's quite challenging but there's a program to allow you to increase the stamina of relievers with specifically this in mind

[Will Beh]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Totally understand and appreciate you taking the cautious approach with this being the first version. My first thought when the feature was announced was "I hope this isn't too easy".

My thought would be to give the user a choice based on the staff's recommendations. Instead of the AI picking only 3b for the 2b you are looking to train at another position, it comes back with "it looks like Joe B. has the skills to learn 3b, 1b, or LF". User then selects the option he likes or passes if he doesn't like any of the options. Of course retaining the possibility that the staff could still come back with only one position.

I'm sure many options have already run through your mind on what could change, my posted idea included.

I do like this; where maybe you don't get to choose whatever you want but you get a curated selection. Will need to mull it over for a bit

Also everyone do keep in mind, the learn new position program doesnt only increase the experience a guy has in a new position. He will be practicing at that new position which will also increase his ratings like arm, error, range, etc. It won't be as much as simply going through the improve defense program, but it's still something

[Daniel_09]

Originally Posted by Will Beh

I do like this; where maybe you don't get to choose whatever you want but you get a curated selection. Will need to mull it over for a bit

Also everyone do keep in mind, the learn new position program doesnt only increase the experience a guy has in a new position. He will be practicing at that new position which will also increase his ratings like arm, error, range, etc. It won't be as much as simply going through the improve defense program, but it's still something

Although I thought that one could choose the position as one decides or creates the need or idea to change something in the defensive scheme, it could be used indiscriminately by the user.

I think the important thing here is that for the first time we have a tool that if the lab comes out in a positive way, we can increase the defensive ratings, as before these ratings only decreased with the passing of the player's years.

[ahunter5]

Originally Posted by Will Beh

Yep 100%! It's quite challenging but there's a program to allow you to increase the stamina of relievers with specifically this in mind

This is awesome - thank you!

[crowhop]

Originally Posted by Will Beh

I do like this; where maybe you don't get to choose whatever you want but you get a curated selection. Will need to mull it over for a bit

Also everyone do keep in mind, the learn new position program doesnt only increase the experience a guy has in a new position. He will be practicing at that new position which will also increase his ratings like arm, error, range, etc. It won't be as much as simply going through the improve defense program, but it's still something

The Dev Lab is such a brilliant feature. Thanks for creating it for us.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by Will Beh

Right now the position they learn is semi-random based upon things like their current position, their current ratings, handedness, etc. For example, your second baseman will be waaay more likely to learn third more than he would learn right field.

While not necessarily opposed to adding a choice next year, the worry is that it allows the system to be abused. Like it would allow people to just add all their players to learn catcher until one works for example.
Also, the position someone learns in real life isn't just whatever the team wants (you can't ask all your first basemen to try out SS) because they simply don't have the skillset.

If you want to force a guy to learn a specific position, you can simply force start him there during spring training and he may get the experience.
The difference between the lab program and playing them there in spring training is that the dev program will also increase (if only a little) their underlying defensive abilities, not just their experience at the position. The "spirit" of the dev lab new position program is that the staff evaluates the guy and helps him learn a position that comes naturally to him.

Hang on, training players as catchers would be pointless because they wouldn't have the requisite defensive ratings. You said only a little gain would be made to defensive ratings and that shouldn't be enough to make a non-catcher into a catcher.

It really would be more realistic to request a specific position. the amount of defensive rating gain should be tied to how difficult the skill is.

[Will Beh]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

Hang on, training players as catchers would be pointless because they wouldn't have the requisite defensive ratings. You said only a little gain would be made to defensive ratings and that shouldn't be enough to make a non-catcher into a catcher.

It really would be more realistic to request a specific position. the amount of defensive rating gain should be tied to how difficult the skill is.

Actually they gain enough to make them viable at the position. I.e. if an infielder learns an outfield position, they will gain outfield ratings somewhat related to their current infield ratings, for example. It's only if they learn a position in the same part of the diamond in which it's a small gain.

[uruguru]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

Hang on, training players as catchers would be pointless because they wouldn't have the requisite defensive ratings.

3B Phil Nevin has entered the chat.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by uruguru

3B Phil Nevin has entered the chat.

What's your point? If Phil Nevin was converted to a catcher, then he always had the requisite defensive ratings for catcher. He only needed the experience to gain a position rating.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by Will Beh

Actually they gain enough to make them viable at the position. I.e. if an infielder learns an outfield position, they will gain outfield ratings somewhat related to their current infield ratings, for example. It's only if they learn a position in the same part of the diamond in which it's a small gain.

I didn't realize that's how that behaved. Honest feedback, I don't think that's the right approach. It's just not realistic to essentially send a player to get a TCR bump.

A player can either throw the ball from the OF or they can't. An infielder shouldn't magically get a better OF arm because you asked them to learn a new position. You would ask an IF to learn a new position because they are already athletic enough to show potential at a new position.

If players can get significant boosts to their defensive ratings, what's the point of positional experience?

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by ChrisJNelson

When I choose this specific development lab task, what determines the "new position" a guy is learning?

For example, let's say I have a shortstop and I want him to learn second base in the development lab. What tells the lab that the "new position" I want him to learn is second base? If I change his position to that or something else?

EDIT: So it seems to not let me choose. I moved a guy to CF and told him to learn a new position, and it taught him third base. So is the game just choosing a new position based on his current position/skill set? Seems like we should be able to choose where to focus.

I would not even waste my time on doing this in the dev lab. Do this during Spring Training because players learn and train new positions very fast during spring training.