Trading with the AI is basically cheating

[uruguru]

I've reduced myself to max difficulty, and only accepting trades that are offered to me (as opposed to seeking out particular players). Still, I get these kinds of unsoliticited offers:

[uruguru]

Interestingly, if I just try to trade for Joe Torre, I get the expected behavior:

[KRSW]

Playing in the modern MLB, I have the exact opposite impression: 95% of the trade offers the AI makes to me are not worth considering, and are trades against me.

[Rain King]

It seems like the AI is trying to dump Bolling and using Torre to sweeten that?

Not trying to make excuses for the trade proposal, but a few details that might help to see the big picture are the salaries of each player, your scouting options/level and also whether Milwaukee has a big hole at 3B or something.

The AI likely has a specific goal with that offer that we need to understand to figure out where it is potentially going wrong from a value standpoint.

[Sweed]

I've found the trading in v24 with the new modes to be fair. Your example of not being able to trade for Torre seems to contradict the thread title.

I'm not going to defend the offer you posted, it's not good. Having said that 99%+ of the offers I get from the AI are either fair, questionable but I can see "their" reasoning, or so bad for me that they're not worth considering.

One can always turn this trade down and chalk it up as an anomaly that slipped through if they choose. If you come back and say "I see this all of the time" I can't be of any help as that's not my experience. I can even tell you I've never had an offer that was this one sided in my favor in the 1% of "AI bad" offers I have received.

[letsgobuccos]

I'd agree that seeking out 1-2 win players is a bit too easy. The AI doesn't have much of a team attachment to them if any. Like, like-for-like-out-of-the-blue swaps of players like these are really rare (at least post 2010 or so?) and come with their own drawbacks.

Otherwise I don't think it's unimmersive on hard mode at all. Yeah, once in a while the AI is going to propose something that's bad for them. But you know, that's a meta cost. If they're never making these proposals they also miss out on some trades.

The biggest clear one-for-one-them-proposing "wins" for me in my current one game have been getting a 4 win SP for a 2 win SP and getting a second year Pat Burrell type for a 2 win catcher. Both times there's an argument to be made that they might prefer paying fair value to a 2 win player than to a 3-4 win player given their situation and for a brief stretch the AI looked on top in both.

[uruguru]

Originally Posted by Sweed

I've found the trading in v24 with the new modes to be fair. Your example of not being able to trade for Torre seems to contradict the thread title.

That's the confusing part. I have no one on my team that justifies getting Torre, but the AI will spontaneous offer me Torre and another player for a reserve 3B on my team.

The AI evaluates both of its players higher than mine. It's not an veteran-for-prospect deal because one of their players is younger and another is older.

It's also not a finances deal because the money saved is relatively small (this is the reserve clause era, after all).

When I try to initiate a trade for just Torre, however, the AI quickly acknowledges that there's no one on my team worth him (and it's correct).

So my conclusion is that, when the AI is proposing trades, the trade difficulty level used must be getting lowered substantially -- because if I then go to the trade screen and suggest the EXACT SAME 2-for-1 deal that it proposed, I'm basically told to shove it when the sun doesn't shine.

So I'm just back now to never trading with the AI, I guess.

[uruguru]

Originally Posted by Rain King

It seems like the AI is trying to dump Bolling and using Torre to sweeten that?

I understand there are complications but it seems that if I independently go and suggest the same trade deal (i.e. just not coming from their email), they will tell me straight up there's no way they'd make that deal.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by uruguru

That's the confusing part. I have no one on my team that justifies getting Torre, but the AI will spontaneous offer me Torre and another player for a reserve 3B on my team.

The AI evaluates both of its players higher than mine. It's not an veteran-for-prospect deal because one of their players is younger and another is older.

It's also not a finances deal because the money saved is relatively small (this is the reserve clause era, after all).

When I try to initiate a trade for just Torre, however, the AI quickly acknowledges that there's no one on my team worth him (and it's correct).

So my conclusion is that, when the AI is proposing trades, the trade difficulty level used must be getting lowered substantially -- because if I then go to the trade screen and suggest the EXACT SAME 2-for-1 deal that it proposed, I'm basically told to shove it when the sun doesn't shine.

So I'm just back now to never trading with the AI, I guess.

I mean it's your game and your choice on how to proceed, but why not just turn down trades like this one and pretend it never happened? You could still accept any trades you deem to be realistic.

With the new hard mode and reputation I've seen no reason to stay away from initiating trades with the AI. The biggest drawback, as letgobuccos, mentioned is the AI doesn't have an attachment to players meaning basically everyone is available if you're willing to pay the price.

I don't have a house rule on this per se, but there are players I won't try to trade for because in my mind they would be untouchable IRL. Though most of those guys would also carry a price tag I wouldn't want to pay. Giving up good prospects and then having to pay the superstar a superstar salary isn't a recipe for success.

[uruguru]

Originally Posted by Sweed

I mean it's your game and your choice on how to proceed, but why not just turn down trades like this one and pretend it never happened? You could still accept any trades you deem to be realistic.

Because once I get increasingly invested in a save, I recognize that I gradually lose impulse control on stuff like this. Just being honest, here. Before this Aspromonte for Bolling-Torre trade, I had already sent C Tom Haller and 1B Boog Powell to the Cubs for RF Billy Williams. "2 very goods for 1 great...that actually seems balanced" is how I reasoned it, knowing that 1B with pop are not hard to find.

I mean, I had already rationalized that one trade which superficially seemed reasonable but deep down I knew that I would never make, even without knowing the future of the players involved.

My wife laughs at all of the ridiculous restrictions I have put in over time for trading with the AI. Setting difficulty to max and only accepting trades offered by the AI, as is, is about as restrictive of a house rule as I can get. So for the Braves to offer me their everyday 2B and their young all-star catcher for my backup 3B (mediocre defensively, even)... well, the writing is on the wall for me.

I just need to go cold turkey for trading, lol, and go back to building teams through Rule V and preseason rookie signings (I give the AI 4 months to lock down all of the good ones).

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by uruguru

Because once I get increasingly invested in a save, I recognize that I gradually lose impulse control on stuff like this. Just being honest, here. Before this Aspromonte for Bolling-Torre trade, I had already sent C Tom Haller and 1B Boog Powell to the Cubs for RF Billy Williams. "2 very goods for 1 great...that actually seems balanced" is how I reasoned it, knowing that 1B with pop are not hard to find.

I mean, I had already rationalized that one trade which superficially seemed reasonable but deep down I knew that I would never make, even without knowing the future of the players involved.

My wife laughs at all of the ridiculous restrictions I have put in over time for trading with the AI. Setting difficulty to max and only accepting trades offered by the AI, as is, is about as restrictive of a house rule as I can get. So for the Braves to offer me their everyday 2B and their young all-star catcher for my backup 3B (mediocre defensively, even)... well, the writing is on the wall for me.

I just need to go cold turkey for trading, lol, and go back to building teams through Rule V and preseason rookie signings (I give the AI 4 months to lock down all of the good ones).

Since there's no "Like" button I'll just say fair enough.