Simulating - Classic or 2D?

[Tom88]

Which option is more realistic and better in terms of statistics? All games classic or all games 2D?

[krownroyal83]

Originally Posted by Tom88

Which option is more realistic and better in terms of statistics? All games classic or all games 2D?

In theory it should be the same and I would hope it would be.

[#4BobbyOrr]

FHM9 was all games classic, no idea if that’s changed in 10 or not.

[Savoie45]

I don't noticed much, if any difference honestly. I use the 2D for simming because then I get which players are not staying in assigned roles in the postgame analysis.

[ghismercier]

From my experience so far in custom leagues:

- Almost every players are PPG or close to it in 2D. Depth players don't get as much points in Classic.

- More penalty varieties in 2D (Bench minors, double minors, many kinds of major penalties) which are not in Classic.

- Non-fighters are fighting more in 2D than in Classic even with 0 fighting and their agressiveness tactic all the way down. League is set at 0.75 fights/game.

[#4BobbyOrr]

I’ve simmed a couple of 2022-23 seasons using classic and 2D for all teams and can say that classic is definitely still the more realistic of the two.

2D results in some weird goal and shooting % numbers for centres, of the top 30 league leaders in shooting percent 29 were centres (Crosby led the league with 31% - 37 goals on 120 shots!), at least two dozen players shot over 20% (over a minimum 60 game sample) and the top 5 goal scorers were as follows:

Stamkos 78
MacKinnon 65
Mcdavid 65 (with 63 ES goals!)
Hertl 56
Matthews 54

Using classic it was a lot more normal. Top 5 for goals were Matthews (67), Connor (56), Forsberg (56), Laine (55) and Kreider (51). There were only a handful of players over 20% and the top shooters were a mix of centres and wingers.

[northjersey]

Originally Posted by #4BobbyOrr

I’ve simmed a couple of 2022-23 seasons using classic and 2D for all teams and can say that classic is definitely still the more realistic of the two.

2D results in some weird goal and shooting % numbers for centres, of the top 30 league leaders in shooting percent 29 were centres (Crosby led the league with 31% - 37 goals on 120 shots!), at least two dozen players shot over 20% (over a minimum 60 game sample) and the top 5 goal scorers were as follows:

Stamkos 78
MacKinnon 65
Mcdavid 65 (with 63 ES goals!)
Hertl 56
Matthews 54

Using classic it was a lot more normal. Top 5 for goals were Matthews (67), Connor (56), Forsberg (56), Laine (55) and Kreider (51). There were only a handful of players over 20% and the top shooters were a mix of centres and wingers.

I agree with this, when simming in 2d last year, most centers had more goals than assists, and the reverse for wingers. Also, real fighters had very low PIMs. Switching to classic saw realistic numbers for all of the above

[renojedi]

Originally Posted by #4BobbyOrr

I’ve simmed a couple of 2022-23 seasons using classic and 2D for all teams and can say that classic is definitely still the more realistic of the two.

2D results in some weird goal and shooting % numbers for centres, of the top 30 league leaders in shooting percent 29 were centres (Crosby led the league with 31% - 37 goals on 120 shots!), at least two dozen players shot over 20% (over a minimum 60 game sample) and the top 5 goal scorers were as follows:

Stamkos 78
MacKinnon 65
Mcdavid 65 (with 63 ES goals!)
Hertl 56
Matthews 54

Using classic it was a lot more normal. Top 5 for goals were Matthews (67), Connor (56), Forsberg (56), Laine (55) and Kreider (51). There were only a handful of players over 20% and the top shooters were a mix of centres and wingers.

These goal totals are giving me flashbacks to FHM8 and this same discussion!

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=334299

[lawrence97]

I mentioned this in FHM9, and first thing i did was test the same league at the same year. On 2D, scoring was 1 goal a game higher league wide, shooting % was higher, but power play numbers were slightly down(last years game, power play numbers were sky high on 2d). Centres scored more goals than they should. Repeating much of whats been said before. i just which classic simulating made the total goals a little higher, although its more realistic, i do find its usually 1/2 a goal off per game compared to what the average should be.

[SSM12]

In the past I’ve turned off coaching games but before every game I could choose my goalie make quick lines then get a report after. What settings do I need in this version to do similar? I can’t figure it out. I don’t want to coach the games but I’d like to be able to make a quick change and view the box score after each game without having to stop the sim manually

Loving the new scouting stuff

[SSM12]

Originally Posted by SSM12

In the past I’ve turned off coaching games but before every game I could choose my goalie make quick lines then get a report after. What settings do I need in this version to do similar? I can’t figure it out. I don’t want to coach the games but I’d like to be able to make a quick change and view the box score after each game without having to stop the sim manually

Loving the new scouting stuff

Ignore me. I figured it out.

[BlackIce]

The hitting is very inaccurate in 2D simming. I can ramp up my hitting in 2D and some of my heavy hitters will register Zero.. one or two hits / game while non hitters get more. In classic they're seems to be way more hitting....

I use Classic because I like the Physicality results

I ramp up the Fights/Per game in the NHL also to reflect more accurate results.

[BKL]

Is there any benefit to using 2D vs Classic in terms of what you can do in the game as a manager/coach or what reports or information you get? If Classic produces more realistic results why not just use Classic, what’s the benefit of 2D?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[renojedi]

Originally Posted by BKL

Is there any benefit to using 2D vs Classic in terms of what you can do in the game as a manager/coach or what reports or information you get? If Classic produces more realistic results why not just use Classic, what’s the benefit of 2D?

Theoretically, you will be able to visualize the game better and make in game decisions based upon that. It has been a few years since I used classic but as someone who plays out all the games, the thing about classic that bothered me was the game tells you what tactics are strong and week vs the opponents tactics but in classic there is no way the see it. All you could get was a game score that reflected whether or not a player was well suited to a tactic not whether or not a team tactic was well suited to beating an opponents tactic.

Now, whether or not what you see in 2D accurately reflects the tactics chosen is another matter for debate.

[renojedi]

By way of follow up, I have completed two seasons using 2D Sim for the entire league with the default NHL set-up under the latest patch/hotfix. I play each game out for my team.

Season one goal leaders: Larkin 81, McDavid 71, Pastnak 61
Season one point leaders: Larkin 140, McDavid 131, Draisaitl 121

Season two goal leaders: McDavid 63, Gaudreau 59, Stamkos 58
Season two point leaders: McDavid 141, DeBrincat 122, Larkin 119

Not sure what happened that first year with goals but the second year looks a lot better than in years past. It is also interesting that McDavid dropped in goals but went up in points so at least there is a variety in those points more than in years past as well.

[drummerJ99]

I tried to switch to 2d this year and do just goal highlights. But that just resulted in the little square players doing stupid stuff, like the defenseman skating all the way back to the goalie and the offensive guy stopping at the blue line for 1-2 seconds or alot of breakaways. Maybe those things aren't' there if watching full game. And there's no play by play to tell me exactly how the goal was scored.

So switched back to classic even though some reason using the same tactics my team never seems to shoot the puck. But atleast I have a play by play to visualize how it was scored.

[renojedi]

That is the drawback for sure. The animation where all the players shadow the puck slowly from one end of the ice to the other and let it go for icing rather than just grabbing it bugs me the most.

I keep playing 2D hoping that I can see tactics in play to see what works but it is just not there. Need animations for hits, too. I moved away from Classic a couple of years ago and am sticking with it but am definitely disappointed with the slow pace of improvements.

[Savoie45]

Originally Posted by renojedi

That is the drawback for sure. The animation where all the players shadow the puck slowly from one end of the ice to the other and let it go for icing rather than just grabbing it bugs me the most.

I keep playing 2D hoping that I can see tactics in play to see what works but it is just not there. Need animations for hits, too. I moved away from Classic a couple of years ago and am sticking with it but am definitely disappointed with the slow pace of improvements.

The best way to know if your tactics are working is the player game ratings.

[renojedi]

Originally Posted by Savoie45

The best way to know if your tactics are working is the player game ratings.

I thought game ratings were "a general indicator of how the player performed his assigned roles during a game." To me, that means my tactic could be "right" but they would get a low GR if their role is "wrong."

I thought my tactic would be "right" if it generated shots/takeaways and limited the opponent's shots/takeaways.

Do I have that wrong?

In any event, it would be nice to see that play out rather than just watch the stats which, to me, would be the benefit of 2D (sort of how I do it with football manager when I want to see if my tactics are doing what I want them to).

[Savoie45]

Originally Posted by renojedi

I thought game ratings were "a general indicator of how the player performed his assigned roles during a game." To me, that means my tactic could be "right" but they would get a low GR if their role is "wrong."

I thought my tactic would be "right" if it generated shots/takeaways and limited the opponent's shots/takeaways.

Do I have that wrong?

In any event, it would be nice to see that play out rather than just watch the stats which, to me, would be the benefit of 2D (sort of how I do it with football manager when I want to see if my tactics are doing what I want them to).

Yeah, you're right. That's what I focus on more than the tactics themselves, though I do try to assign tactics that fit as many players as possible though.