Prospect Trading

Trav876 · 08-16-2023, 09:52 PM

I have "favor prospects" slider two ticks over and lately in my sims (I haven't noticed this as much in prior versions of OOTP), top 100 guys are getting traded quite often at or around the deadline, for not very good deals.

Is this normal? Do I need to slide the "favor prospects" bar over even more? If so, shouldn't this be weighted a bit differently if neutral, or even slightly favor prospects, ends up with dumb decisions by the AI?

For example, just this last sim, #5 prospect traded for a rental who's having a bad year...#16, #24 prospects traded, for not very good returns. And at least a few more top 100 guys.

I have my GM/AI ratings at 37/43/15/5 ratings/current/last yr/2 yrs

Daniel_09 · 08-17-2023, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trav876

I have "favor prospects" slider two ticks over and lately in my sims (I haven't noticed this as much in prior versions of OOTP), top 100 guys are getting traded quite often at or around the deadline, for not very good deals.

Is this normal? Do I need to slide the "favor prospects" bar over even more? If so, shouldn't this be weighted a bit differently if neutral, or even slightly favor prospects, ends up with dumb decisions by the AI?

For example, just this last sim, #5 prospect traded for a rental who's having a bad year...#16, #24 prospects traded, for not very good returns. And at least a few more top 100 guys.

I have my GM/AI ratings at 37/43/15/5 ratings/current/last yr/2 yrs

I think the problem is in how the AI evaluates the players, if the sum of the stats evaluation is greater in total than the ratings you can have really absurd trades, like top 100 prospects by veterans in their last year of contract with 37 years old that have good/regular stats in two months in comparison with any prospects at any minor league level.

Whether it is a historical or modern simulation, I always recommend that the AI evaluation of the ratings be greater than the total of the sum of all the stats, and that as a minimum, I have been using the 70/15/10/5 for several years, and I have not seen bad trades, the prospects are protected in the rule 5 draft, and they do not place good players in waivers.

Always understanding that the OOTP simulator is based on ratings and not stats.

IRL with an evaluation like you have in your simulation they would have never traded Lynn this year, since his numbers were horrible until he came to LA, this means that in ratings he can offer something more than the numbers reflect, just like OOTP works.

Daniel_09 · 08-17-2023, 12:05 PM

The trades you mention have more to do with the AI evaluation than with the settings of the trades.

Trav876 · 08-17-2023, 08:26 PM

Thanks for the replies guys. One thing though that makes me question whether or not it has to do with my AI settings, is many of the trades were for vets that weren't even that good statistically. I had "current year stats" as the highest because I want the AI to value players who are doing well, more so than just rated high, but I wonder then why the lopsided trades not just as far as ratings, but stats. That's where it seems to not value prospects as high.

Trav876 · 08-19-2023, 10:07 AM

OK, I started a new sim and I am at trade deadline...

Still seeing some weird prospect trades with AI eval at 55/27/13/5 (ratings/current/last yr/2 year)

For example, number 13 prospect in the game Tim Salmon AND Bert Blyleven (who is a vet on a big contract but having a good year)... in return for two prospects who are NOT even in the top 100.

How do trades like this make sense? Are they dumping a #13 prospect to unload Blyleven? I know there are seemingly dumb trades in real life, but to that extent where a #13 prospect is traded along with a good SP for two worse prospects? Granted Brosius is decent but nowhere near #13 (isn't even in top 100), and Currie is just a throw-in, he's not good.

I'm either doing something wrong or the game / AI makes pretty dumb decisions & needs some serious fixes. And mind you, this is not out of the ordinary from when I've been playing OOTP 24... can anyone explain what this reasoning is? Or if I need to change any settings? I have "favor prospects" one tick over from the middle.

Pelican · 08-19-2023, 11:25 AM

The deal is essentially Brosius for Salmon. Two young prospects who would have long and productive MLB careers. Depending on whether you have development on and where TCR set, a good bet that each will be good.

Don’t know about Currie; but even Blyleven (a late bloomer) was on the way out at 38. Maybe useful as a “future is now” piece for a competing team (Oakland IRL 1989). Currie, unless he is awful, would be a better fit for a developing team (California in ‘89). Sucks that Cali has to pay part of Blyleven’s salary; but they are the wealthy team.

Trav876 · 08-19-2023, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelican

The deal is essentially Brosius for Salmon. Two young prospects who would have long and productive MLB careers. Depending on whether you have development on and where TCR set, a good bet that each will be good.

Don’t know about Currie; but even Blyleven (a late bloomer) was on the way out at 38. Maybe useful as a “future is now” piece for a competing team (Oakland IRL 1989). Currie, unless he is awful, would be a better fit for a developing team (California in ‘89). Sucks that Cali has to pay part of Blyleven’s salary; but they are the wealthy team.

"Two young prospects who would have long and productive MLB careers."

Yes- in real life. Does the game know this? No. And will it happen in this universe? It also doesn't know, so that's irrelevant. All the AI knows is Salmon is a #13 overall prospect... Brosius is not ... and you're also tossing Blyleven in there which makes it even more bizarre/ lopsided.

IRL if you see a #13 prospect traded ... it's for some big time return. And it's pretty rare those highly ranked prospects are traded as much as is happening in OOTP 24 in my experience (again, that's where I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong?). So I'm not cherry picking here- many top 100 guys get moved every deadline, and quite often are dumb deals. This is just one example upon many I am running into.

Paul Reuschel's Mustache · 08-19-2023, 12:45 PM

What bothers me the most is when the AI waives or releases good young players while holding on to an assortment of scrubs in AAA who should realistically never sniff the MLB roster. The same goes for the AI trading highly rated prospects in trades for non-star level veterans. Yes, I know these things sometimes happen in real life.

I use the following settings to "help" the AI.

AI Settings

Trading Preference: all the way to the right to "favor prospects".

Player Evaluation AI Settings: 100% Ratings Weight

Apply changes and recalculate GM tendencies.

A week before the trading deadline, I change the Player Evaluation AI Settings to 55-25-15-5 and Trading Preference to the middle between Favor Veterans and Prospects. On August 1, I switch back.

What I've found with these settings is that decent to good young players are virtually never put on waivers, released, or traded for some over-the-hill has-been. The AI still trades young players for veterans, but the transaction rarely involves a top rated prospect. Of course, during the week before the trading deadline when I change the settings, the AI will revert to its inherent tendencies, which will include a number of head scratchers.

I've got my Trading Difficulty set to one click from the maximum setting. That makes it very costly for me to acquire a good young player in a trade.

I've found these settings have kept the game more realistic and challenging for me.

Trav876 · 08-19-2023, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Reuschel's Mustache

What bothers me the most is when the AI waives or releases good young players while holding on to an assortment of scrubs in AAA who should realistically never sniff the MLB roster. The same goes for the AI trading highly rated prospects in trades for non-star level veterans. Yes, I know these things sometimes happen in real life.

I use the following settings to "help" the AI.

AI Settings

Trading Preference: all the way to the right to "favor prospects".

Player Evaluation AI Settings: 100% Ratings Weight

Apply changes and recalculate GM tendencies.

A week before the trading deadline, I change the Player Evaluation AI Settings to 55-25-15-5 and Trading Preference to the middle between Favor Veterans and Prospects. On August 1, I switch back.

What I've found with these settings is that decent to good young players are virtually never put on waivers, released, or traded for some over-the-hill has-been. The AI still trades young players for veterans, but the transaction rarely involves a top rated prospect. Of course, during the week before the trading deadline when I change the settings, the AI will revert to its inherent tendencies, which will include a number of head scratchers.

I've got my Trading Difficulty set to one click from the maximum setting. That makes it very costly for me to acquire a good young player in a trade.

I've found these settings have kept the game more realistic and challenging for me.

That's good feedback, thanks for the reply. Interesting way to do it...unfortunate that we have to "remember" to adjust these settings as the seasons progress, rather than getting lost in playing & letting it pan out at least somewhat realistically. But maybe they will be able to make some fixes. In scouring the forums, it looks like the developers are aware of this to an extent.

One thing I'm going to try is entering the game in OOTP23, and then importing the game into OOTP24 (to use "hard mode," & trade deadline day, which I like those features). I wonder if that will somehow make a difference in terms of dumb trades- as I didn't seem to notice it as much in OOTP23

Sweed · 08-19-2023, 12:58 PM

Here is a link to my post detailing trades in v23 compared to v24 over the course of complete seasons in both, including the first and second off seasons in v24 after import.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...&postcount=207

and the complete thread https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...18#post5029618

I have not seen the top prospect trading for less than fair value others have reported. I do think it happens more than IRL (maybe because IRL teams feel a need to hang onto "their choice"?) but in my league most of these are prospect for prospect with both clubs getting value.

I am one click toward favoring prospects in my settings. Other information is in the linked post. IDK if you will find value in it or not, but it's there either way.

Trav876 · 08-19-2023, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweed

Here is a link to my post detailing trades in v23 compared to v24 over the course of complete seasons in both, including the first and second off seasons in v24 after import.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...&postcount=207

and the complete thread https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...18#post5029618

I have not seen the top prospect trading for less than fair value others have reported. I do think it happens more than IRL (maybe because IRL teams feel a need to hang onto "their choice"?) but in my league most of these are prospect for prospect with both clubs getting value.

I am one click toward favoring prospects in my settings. Other information is in the linked post. IDK if you will find value in it or not, but it's there either way.

Yeah, I actually read through that whole thing earlier lol.

The way you've done it, 25/25/25/25 and "average" trade frequency, is definitely not what I would get with those settings. I've had some definite bad prospect trades with close to those settings (not sure that "lowering" ratings would somehow result in less good prospects being traded? On the contrary, others have suggested in this thread that I move ratings higher for AI Eval (something like 60/20/13/7)).

Trav876 · 08-19-2023, 03:01 PM

Just tried starting a new game in OOTP23, then importing it into 24. Entered the game with the settings at "slightly favor prospects," 1 tick over, and 53/25/17/5 ... and ran into basically the same issues. Maybe not QUITE as many very top prospects, but probably 15-20 top 100 guys got dealt. The game was entered with "average" trade freq., but I moved it to "low" before all these trades took place.

So, didn't seem to make much of a difference.

08-17-2023, 08:26 PM	#4
Trav876 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 293	Thanks for the replies guys. One thing though that makes me question whether or not it has to do with my AI settings, is many of the trades were for vets that weren't even that good statistically. I had "current year stats" as the highest because I want the AI to value players who are doing well, more so than just rated high, but I wonder then why the lopsided trades not just as far as ratings, but stats. That's where it seems to not value prospects as high. __________________ 1993 Colorado Rockies & Beyond. Working Towards Building a Dynasty (Vidoes & Posts) Volume 1 (Retired, Video Playlist) 1993 - 2009 with the Expansion Colorado Rockies, MLB Sim Replay, Career Mode

08-19-2023, 11:25 AM	#6
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 2,983	The deal is essentially Brosius for Salmon. Two young prospects who would have long and productive MLB careers. Depending on whether you have development on and where TCR set, a good bet that each will be good. Don’t know about Currie; but even Blyleven (a late bloomer) was on the way out at 38. Maybe useful as a “future is now” piece for a competing team (Oakland IRL 1989). Currie, unless he is awful, would be a better fit for a developing team (California in ‘89). Sucks that Cali has to pay part of Blyleven’s salary; but they are the wealthy team. __________________ Pelican OOTP 2020-? ”Hard to believe, Harry.”

08-19-2023, 03:01 PM	#12
Trav876 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 293	Just tried starting a new game in OOTP23, then importing it into 24. Entered the game with the settings at "slightly favor prospects," 1 tick over, and 53/25/17/5 ... and ran into basically the same issues. Maybe not QUITE as many very top prospects, but probably 15-20 top 100 guys got dealt. The game was entered with "average" trade freq., but I moved it to "low" before all these trades took place. So, didn't seem to make much of a difference. __________________ 1993 Colorado Rockies & Beyond. Working Towards Building a Dynasty (Vidoes & Posts) Volume 1 (Retired, Video Playlist) 1993 - 2009 with the Expansion Colorado Rockies, MLB Sim Replay, Career Mode

08-16-2023, 09:52 PM	#1
Trav876 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 293	Prospect Trading Issues I have "favor prospects" slider two ticks over and lately in my sims (I haven't noticed this as much in prior versions of OOTP), top 100 guys are getting traded quite often at or around the deadline, for not very good deals. Is this normal? Do I need to slide the "favor prospects" bar over even more? If so, shouldn't this be weighted a bit differently if neutral, or even slightly favor prospects, ends up with dumb decisions by the AI? For example, just this last sim, #5 prospect traded for a rental who's having a bad year...#16, #24 prospects traded, for not very good returns. And at least a few more top 100 guys. I have my GM/AI ratings at 37/43/15/5 ratings/current/last yr/2 yrs __________________ 1993 Colorado Rockies & Beyond. Working Towards Building a Dynasty (Vidoes & Posts) Volume 1 (Retired, Video Playlist) 1993 - 2009 with the Expansion Colorado Rockies, MLB Sim Replay, Career Mode Last edited by Trav876; 08-19-2023 at 10:15 AM.

08-17-2023, 12:05 PM	#3
Daniel_09 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2021 Location: Caracas Posts: 318	The trades you mention have more to do with the AI evaluation than with the settings of the trades.

08-19-2023, 10:07 AM	#5
Trav876 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 293	Still an Issue OK, I started a new sim and I am at trade deadline... Still seeing some weird prospect trades with AI eval at 55/27/13/5 (ratings/current/last yr/2 year) For example, number 13 prospect in the game Tim Salmon AND Bert Blyleven (who is a vet on a big contract but having a good year)... in return for two prospects who are NOT even in the top 100. How do trades like this make sense? Are they dumping a #13 prospect to unload Blyleven? I know there are seemingly dumb trades in real life, but to that extent where a #13 prospect is traded along with a good SP for two worse prospects? Granted Brosius is decent but nowhere near #13 (isn't even in top 100), and Currie is just a throw-in, he's not good. I'm either doing something wrong or the game / AI makes pretty dumb decisions & needs some serious fixes. And mind you, this is not out of the ordinary from when I've been playing OOTP 24... can anyone explain what this reasoning is? Or if I need to change any settings? I have "favor prospects" one tick over from the middle. Attached Images __________________ 1993 Colorado Rockies & Beyond. Working Towards Building a Dynasty (Vidoes & Posts) Volume 1 (Retired, Video Playlist) 1993 - 2009 with the Expansion Colorado Rockies, MLB Sim Replay, Career Mode Last edited by Trav876; 08-19-2023 at 10:19 AM.

08-19-2023, 12:45 PM	#8
Paul Reuschel's Mustache Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2023 Posts: 139	What bothers me the most is when the AI waives or releases good young players while holding on to an assortment of scrubs in AAA who should realistically never sniff the MLB roster. The same goes for the AI trading highly rated prospects in trades for non-star level veterans. Yes, I know these things sometimes happen in real life. I use the following settings to "help" the AI. AI Settings Trading Preference: all the way to the right to "favor prospects". Player Evaluation AI Settings: 100% Ratings Weight Apply changes and recalculate GM tendencies. A week before the trading deadline, I change the Player Evaluation AI Settings to 55-25-15-5 and Trading Preference to the middle between Favor Veterans and Prospects. On August 1, I switch back. What I've found with these settings is that decent to good young players are virtually never put on waivers, released, or traded for some over-the-hill has-been. The AI still trades young players for veterans, but the transaction rarely involves a top rated prospect. Of course, during the week before the trading deadline when I change the settings, the AI will revert to its inherent tendencies, which will include a number of head scratchers. I've got my Trading Difficulty set to one click from the maximum setting. That makes it very costly for me to acquire a good young player in a trade. I've found these settings have kept the game more realistic and challenging for me.

08-19-2023, 12:58 PM	#10
Sweed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 6,701	Here is a link to my post detailing trades in v23 compared to v24 over the course of complete seasons in both, including the first and second off seasons in v24 after import. https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...&postcount=207 and the complete thread https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...18#post5029618 I have not seen the top prospect trading for less than fair value others have reported. I do think it happens more than IRL (maybe because IRL teams feel a need to hang onto "their choice"?) but in my league most of these are prospect for prospect with both clubs getting value. I am one click toward favoring prospects in my settings. Other information is in the linked post. IDK if you will find value in it or not, but it's there either way.