Pitcher Stamina Messes with Potential Rating

Aaron's Aron · 05-30-2023, 01:01 PM

I was messing around with the player ratings in the editor, and I noticed that once a player reached 100 Stamina (in the editor), their Overall rating, and especially their Potential rating shot way up.

I know that Stamina does factor into Overall and Potential, and when you bump Stamina up one point at a time, Overall and Potential do slightly climb, as to be expected. However, once you go from 99 to 100 Stamina, Potential shoots up like 10-15 points.

I know that 50 Stamina (in the editor) is the cutoff for where the AI considers a pitcher to be a starter, and therefore values them much more highly in terms of trades and contracts, although there is no visual difference in Overall and Potential.

In past versions of OOTP, I have never known there to be some benefit to reaching 100 Stamina (in the editor), and Overall and Potential have never shot up like this. This makes a huge difference for the AI (and myself when evaluating pitchers at a glance) in terms of how they handle trade value and contracts, as they are putting a lot of value in that one Stamina point (99 vs 100), despite it not actually providing any real extra value.

This is my first version of OOTP 24, so I don't know if this has been an issue for the entirety of 24, or just this build. Like I said, I've never experienced this in any past releases of OOTP.

I am playing on OOTP Version 24.4 Build 61.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

EDIT: I have been doing the testing with 100% scouting accuracy, so it is not a scouting issue.

EDIT 2: It seems like the amount of "boost" the 100 Stamina provides scales based on the Overall and Potential. The higher the Overall and Potential to begin with, the bigger the boost. It's like +4 or 5 if it the pitcher is a 40 (20-80 scale), and +15ish if the pitcher is a 65.

EDIT 3: Actually, I'm not really sure. The amount of "boost" seems to vary based on other things as well. It seems that the higher Stuff the pitcher has, the more boost they get... Still looking into it!

EDIT 4: I guess this might not be a "bug" per se, so maybe this wasn't the right place to report this, but I've never experienced this in any past version, and it certainly seems like an issue. I didn't upload my league file because I was testing on a brand new save on the latest patch, but I suppose I can if you need me to. I attached the Ratings settings I am using as an image.

Aaron's Aron · 05-30-2023, 05:03 PM

Made an edit to include the settings I am using. Let me know if I need to provide a league file, although like I said it is just a brand new save on the latest patch. Thanks!

CBLCardinals · 05-31-2023, 07:08 PM

I’ve seen this in game with a few real MLB prospects.

For instance when starting a new game (not live start) Bryce Miller of Seattle has around 84 (out of 200) in stamina and is a 45 Potential SPin game. If you raise his stamina to around 110, he shoot’s up to a 55 potential SP (which seems about right)

Similar results for Max Meyer of Miami.

Both pitchers carry “reliever only” risk is why in game stamina is low?

Rain King · 06-01-2023, 01:37 AM

That is likely the threshold where the game considers the player a legitimate starting pitcher possibility vs. a likely reliever....so it would make sense that there is going to be a jump at that point. Although if this was tested in previous versions and you didn't see that affect that does make it curious.

Another test that might be worth doing is checking whether this happens with a 2-pitch guy.

Aaron's Aron · 06-01-2023, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBLCardinals

I’ve seen this in game with a few real MLB prospects.

For instance when starting a new game (not live start) Bryce Miller of Seattle has around 84 (out of 200) in stamina and is a 45 Potential SPin game. If you raise his stamina to around 110, he shoot’s up to a 55 potential SP (which seems about right)

Similar results for Max Meyer of Miami.

Both pitchers carry “reliever only” risk is why in game stamina is low?

This isn't really what I'm referring to. What you said is more or less what I expect to happen. The issue is that specifically going from 99 to 100 Stamina causes Potential to shoot way up, and therefore super overvalues, or undervalues, depending on perspective, a certain group of pitchers.

Aaron's Aron · 06-01-2023, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain King

That is likely the threshold where the game considers the player a legitimate starting pitcher possibility vs. a likely reliever....so it would make sense that there is going to be a jump at that point. Although if this was tested in previous versions and you didn't see that affect that does make it curious.

Another test that might be worth doing is checking whether this happens with a 2-pitch guy.

I just tested with a two-pitch guy and there was no change in Overall or Potential.

As I said though, 50 Stamina is the cut-off for the AI determining a starter from a reliver. Maybe it changed in this game and I wasn't aware? Even if it did, having 50 Stamina only changed AI behavior, it didn't actually bump up Overall or Potential any more than 49 Stamina did.

Rain King · 06-02-2023, 09:53 AM

It is possible that there are 2 thresholds? One from a strategy stand-point and another from a value stand-point?

The game may use a 50 guy as a SP out of necessity, but it knows that guy isn't likely to eat innings...hitting 100 maybe crosses a second threshold and we now have a guy worth thinking long-term as a SP.

I'm just speculating, but I don't see much of an issue here except I guess it would be best if the uptick in value was more gradual instead of a harder coded threshold (if that is what is happening).

But also, I'm all for just having more insight into this stuff so definitely glad you noticed this and brought it up.

05-30-2023, 01:01 PM	#1
Aaron's Aron Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 70	Pitcher Stamina Messes with Potential Rating I was messing around with the player ratings in the editor, and I noticed that once a player reached 100 Stamina (in the editor), their Overall rating, and especially their Potential rating shot way up. I know that Stamina does factor into Overall and Potential, and when you bump Stamina up one point at a time, Overall and Potential do slightly climb, as to be expected. However, once you go from 99 to 100 Stamina, Potential shoots up like 10-15 points. I know that 50 Stamina (in the editor) is the cutoff for where the AI considers a pitcher to be a starter, and therefore values them much more highly in terms of trades and contracts, although there is no visual difference in Overall and Potential. In past versions of OOTP, I have never known there to be some benefit to reaching 100 Stamina (in the editor), and Overall and Potential have never shot up like this. This makes a huge difference for the AI (and myself when evaluating pitchers at a glance) in terms of how they handle trade value and contracts, as they are putting a lot of value in that one Stamina point (99 vs 100), despite it not actually providing any real extra value. This is my first version of OOTP 24, so I don't know if this has been an issue for the entirety of 24, or just this build. Like I said, I've never experienced this in any past releases of OOTP. I am playing on OOTP Version 24.4 Build 61. Any feedback is greatly appreciated. Thank you! EDIT: I have been doing the testing with 100% scouting accuracy, so it is not a scouting issue. EDIT 2: It seems like the amount of "boost" the 100 Stamina provides scales based on the Overall and Potential. The higher the Overall and Potential to begin with, the bigger the boost. It's like +4 or 5 if it the pitcher is a 40 (20-80 scale), and +15ish if the pitcher is a 65. EDIT 3: Actually, I'm not really sure. The amount of "boost" seems to vary based on other things as well. It seems that the higher Stuff the pitcher has, the more boost they get... Still looking into it! EDIT 4: I guess this might not be a "bug" per se, so maybe this wasn't the right place to report this, but I've never experienced this in any past version, and it certainly seems like an issue. I didn't upload my league file because I was testing on a brand new save on the latest patch, but I suppose I can if you need me to. I attached the Ratings settings I am using as an image. Attached Images Last edited by Aaron's Aron; 05-30-2023 at 05:00 PM.

05-30-2023, 05:03 PM	#2
Aaron's Aron Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 70	Made an edit to include the settings I am using. Let me know if I need to provide a league file, although like I said it is just a brand new save on the latest patch. Thanks!

05-31-2023, 07:08 PM	#3
CBLCardinals OOTP Roster Team Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,918	I’ve seen this in game with a few real MLB prospects. For instance when starting a new game (not live start) Bryce Miller of Seattle has around 84 (out of 200) in stamina and is a 45 Potential SPin game. If you raise his stamina to around 110, he shoot’s up to a 55 potential SP (which seems about right) Similar results for Max Meyer of Miami. Both pitchers carry “reliever only” risk is why in game stamina is low?

06-01-2023, 01:37 AM	#4
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,158	That is likely the threshold where the game considers the player a legitimate starting pitcher possibility vs. a likely reliever....so it would make sense that there is going to be a jump at that point. Although if this was tested in previous versions and you didn't see that affect that does make it curious. Another test that might be worth doing is checking whether this happens with a 2-pitch guy.

06-02-2023, 09:53 AM	#7
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,158	It is possible that there are 2 thresholds? One from a strategy stand-point and another from a value stand-point? The game may use a 50 guy as a SP out of necessity, but it knows that guy isn't likely to eat innings...hitting 100 maybe crosses a second threshold and we now have a guy worth thinking long-term as a SP. I'm just speculating, but I don't see much of an issue here except I guess it would be best if the uptick in value was more gradual instead of a harder coded threshold (if that is what is happening). But also, I'm all for just having more insight into this stuff so definitely glad you noticed this and brought it up.