2000 PP for winning a WS?

[Mal3607]

Man, that seems really low considering the effort and work involved, especially when 1500 points are awarded for player of the year, etc. It should be at least 5000 and maybe 10,000. Thoughts?

[rburgh]

All the bonuses you get for advancing in the playoffs, and the PP's your players get for achievements during the playoff run. And you also will get another 1000 PP (most likely) for a fantastic season bonus after the playoffs are over.

[Ty Cobb]

WTH...let's make it a million!

<<sarc>>

[Will_L]

I was pleasantly surprised by the 50k for getting up to diamond and shocked that my team actually got to diamond. I figured they would be competitive at silver and occasionally be in gold and get bounced back from there.

[GSG]

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

WTH...let's make it a million!

<<sarc>>

Yes, lets get closer to that.
<<unironically>>

Rewards are better in 24, but still solidly meh. Going packs only for logins is a nice way to get more of everyone's favorite 6 live dupes packs, and the new stuff like PT live has a lower ROI and takes far more time than just simming the '27 Yankees for 2 minutes every 3 days for the challenge mode pack. Plus woe unto those who forget to submit on time, unless you're willing to pony up.

A more conspiratorially minded person might believe the outright stingy rewards may have something do with the new ability to pay in advance for bonus payouts, but either way hopefully PT25 does a better job of rewarding players vs. payers.

[Ty Cobb]

Gee...I've gotten a FTP team into Gold based on those free payouts you grumble about...won a Silver Series last week, and I don't play tournaments at all as a rule...think I've tried ONE since the launch of '24.

Instead of asking for handouts, perhaps consider introspection.

[Will_L]

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

Gee...I've gotten a FTP team into Gold based on those free payouts you grumble about...won a Silver Series last week, and I don't play tournaments at all as a rule...think I've tried ONE since the launch of '24.

I'm FTP also though I do play the fast Iron tournaments and have won 29 of them so far with maybe a bit more second place finishes. I'm able to get into anywhere from six to twelve daily during the week and probably double that on weekends. Congrats on the championship win.

[GSG]

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

Gee...I've gotten a FTP team into Gold based on those free payouts you grumble about...won a Silver Series last week, and I don't play tournaments at all as a rule...think I've tried ONE since the launch of '24.

Instead of asking for handouts, perhaps consider introspection.

I'm not sure why you decided to invent "handouts" out of "rewards", but I'm happy to explain. My FTP and only team is also in gold, floundering after a couple of early WS wins and a few weeks in Diamond. Now as the cycle goes on, those PT+ advantages keeps building while my only hope is pack luck and the aforementioned skimpy rewards- as in a "reward" for "winning" or "performing well", all while my competition is getting even more of those exact same rewards. PT always had PTW elements (Why else only have 1 PL?) but 24 seems more "Pay to Compete" or pay to keep up as we get deeper in the cycle.

I know the argument was "PT+ is a great value!" and I agree it is, but if it's also necessary to keep up that's a bad Diablo Immortal inspired gameplay mechanic. PT+ 100% has some cool elements like rare ballparks (I think too many are behind the paywall, but such is life) giveaways, even some extra slots to use or not but in reality PT+ is most of all increased income, some might call them handouts to higher paying customers. If I feel like I have to pay to compete then why should I spend my time playing as a free AI for the devs to pit against their higher paying customers? If you dig that style, more power to ya but gaming is filled with the fallen corpses of online games that tried Pay2Compete and in a game as niche as OOTP the more of those folks that fall off because they're tired of getting curbstomped is bad for us all. OOTP has always been the game I went to escape that sort of stuff.


Upon introspection, I think you have a very fitting username.

[bailey]

Ty Cobb is right. Maybe, you don't need more handouts (aka rewards), but smarter play? PT+ is an advantage, but it is not required to succeed. I define success as a diamond league team that makes the playoffs 50% of the time. BTW, are you collecting your free handouts of 60 packs per week by connecting to official and affiliate streams on twitch?

[HRBaker]

Expectations.


That, alone, is the variable that results in all of these discussions.


Expectations of OOTP? To create a game that is fun, challenging, and profitable.


Expectations of customers? ...


Here's where things get complicated. I would venture to guess few of us share a similar path. Whales simply want to win, so they put money in place of time. Many with time invest it with some being successful and others not based on their understanding of the game's structure. And others simply want a baseball related game to check in on everyday, gambling points to find that Mickey Mantle card in today's packs.

As has been said before, the ones most successful will either - or in combination - spend money, spend time, and will make an effort to study every detail of the game. The rest of us will squeeze out some lesser form of success; some being happy and content; others being unsatisfied.

That being said, I, personally, DO have one primary complaint... I think top-value cards (Perfects and Diamonds) are handed out way to fast early on. Here we are in Week 10 and almost all rosters in the top three levels are 2/3rds Diamond and 1/3rd Perfect cards. I do understand the need to feed the whales, but it seems to me a much better game if Gold and Silver cards had a longer lifespan than 6 weeks. I think it's fair to say that any new cards released from this point on that aren't at least Diamonds or Perfects simply are not interesting any more. Everyone is waiting for the Perfect Card that is better than the last Perfect Card that came out.

Back to the discussion at hand, I can only imagine how many seasons OOTP has run in its tests to try and balance the game. Thousands? Ten's of Thousands? Hundreds of Thousands? And all those results have ended up defining the game as we see it today.

The game works. It may not be what many of us would design ourselves, but we also haven't seen those thousands of test runs that OOTP has.

[Ty Cobb]

"Upon introspection, I think you have a very fitting username."

Introspection is self-examination, son.

As for my fitting username, you're quite welcome to, should you ever be in the area, contact me and we can sit around a fire at my rustic cabin in Benzonia and share a Crown-on-the-rocks and some grilled brats. I promise not to beat you with your own wooden leg, and you might want to read a biography of my nom-de-plume that isn't written by Al Stump...or watch one that isn't idiotically inaccurate (looking at you, Tommy Lee Jones).

Start here: https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/who-w...w-thats-wrong/

[Kushiel]

Originally Posted by bailey

I define success as a diamond league team that makes the playoffs 50% of the time.

This is the Perfect Description of Perfect Team. Few of us have the time, knowledge and/or money to hang in Perfect League.

I love my top team but I am at least as happy with my second team that made it to Gold this week. No PT+, tournaments, or Twitch for them but love of the Great Game finds a way to exceed. This team is very exciting for me currently. As has been said it is all about expectations.

[GSG]

Originally Posted by bailey

Ty Cobb is right. Maybe, you don't need more handouts (aka rewards), but smarter play? PT+ is an advantage, but it is not required to succeed. I define success as a diamond league team that makes the playoffs 50% of the time. BTW, are you collecting your free handouts of 60 packs per week by connecting to official and affiliate streams on twitch?

One point - If you think the rewards for playing are just mere handouts why play? Doesn't that reduce the reasons for playing PT to pretty much "Play with cards, if I can get them", "Theme team" or "Wallet stomping pubbies"? I'm not sure how viable that game is long term with a newly built in income disparity. If anything, doesn't that income advantage replace the need for smarter play with economic brute force?

As for drops I do have a 100% good faith question: Without opening your wallet do you see any other possible path to gold/diamond without maximizing those day in day out over months without being a tournament shark?

Judging by the number of "zombie viewers" in most affiliate streams there are a lot of people paying with time over money. Why should they keep investing that time just fall further behind? I guess it comes down to how much time should I have to invest NOT playing the game to have a chance at winning? Once you factor in that winning provides less reward than an average day of sitting on your hands as a PT+ subscriber what's the point? There's no shortage of online gamers that only feel comfortable playing with an advantage over their fellow paying customers, but they still need people with incentive to play against them. I don't think many of that second group are going to be posting here (for multiple reasons- some in this very thread) they're just going to stop logging in and that's bad for us all. I do hope I'm wrong and the Devs find a balance, but for now what's the point in a game with no reward?

[Kushiel]

Start a team on a Monday. Sell all cards after your roster. Combine with the 1K PP. Start picking off hitters from the Live Quests concentrating on doing both Missions to get the decent second guy. You will be in EP so hitters can gain points faster. After the top hitters start finishing the Live Missions. You can easily finish them in EP and Rookie League. You will also have been building PP if you were prudent. Now you can make PP at low levels. Watch the AH when you have a few minutes. You will be in Gold in a few weeks.

Works for me every year.

[bailey]

Originally Posted by GSG

One point - If you think the rewards for playing are just mere handouts why play? Doesn't that reduce the reasons for playing PT to pretty much "Play with cards, if I can get them", "Theme team" or "Wallet stomping pubbies"? I'm not sure how viable that game is long term with a newly built in income disparity. If anything, doesn't that income advantage replace the need for smarter play with economic brute force?

I was only agreeing with Ty Cobb. I had never thought of rewards as "handouts" until that point. What is a "Wallet stomping pubby"?

Originally Posted by GSG

As for drops I do have a 100% good faith question: Without opening your wallet do you see any other possible path to gold/diamond without maximizing those day in day out over months without being a tournament shark?

It is not difficult to build a successful diamond league team. You do have to understand 1) how the cards work 2) how the game economy works.
3) and that this game is a marathon and not a sprint.
If you think that at this point in the game you should be knocking on the door of PeL without having spent a lot of time or money, then you are dreaming. But, you can achieve this by next March if you go slowly. I am playing a team right now that only uses login rewards and achievement points to progress and this team WILL make the diamond league playoffs before PT25 comes out.

Originally Posted by GSG

Judging by the number of "zombie viewers" in most affiliate streams there are a lot of people paying with time over money. Why should they keep investing that time just fall further behind? I guess it comes down to how much time should I have to invest NOT playing the game to have a chance at winning? Once you factor in that winning provides less reward than an average day of sitting on your hands as a PT+ subscriber what's the point? There's no shortage of online gamers that only feel comfortable playing with an advantage over their fellow paying customers, but they still need people with incentive to play against them. I don't think many of that second group are going to be posting here (for multiple reasons- some in this very thread) they're just going to stop logging in and that's bad for us all. I do hope I'm wrong and the Devs find a balance, but for now what's the point in a game with no reward?

This comment completely floors me. Am I supposed to feel sorry for my opponent's stupid play and not try to win? Are you saying that drops spoil the fun for you because you are not willing to log into the streams and be a zombie viewer yourself?

[TwanLX2000]

I empathize with the balance required for the devs, because a few version ago when season rewards were at their height, lots of players were tanking to remain at lower levels where those could be attained more readily. Last year in particular, the rewards dwindled down to hardly anything, which meant if you weren't going to receive much, you may as well not receive much in diamond, as opposed to tanking to also not receive much.

This year, they added multipliers to incentivize staying at the higher levels, and while that may seem like piling it on for players who are already good, they're attempting to strike a balance that encourages competitive play. Like in a fantasy league, there's nothing more frustrating than building up a division lead, only to have your competition play the second half of the season against tanking teams you had to play at full strength.

They're never going to be able to strike a balance towards everyone's version of "perfect," as it was mentioned earlier that we all have different incentives to play and different goals. But they are listening and tweaks are made every year to 1) Continue to make money that will allow the game to continue being available and 2) Make players at multiple levels of investments pleased with the outcome. This is not an easy task.

[Mal3607]

I advanced to Gold, so I am doing fine, and the 50,000 bonus was nice. I have gotten points through tournaments.... if the ultimate achievement in a season is winning a WS, which is my opinion, then it should come with a bigger reward, especially at the lower levels. It's not a handout if you earn it through a win. I am more used to playing Classic so this is my first Perfect Team run through.

[Mal3607]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

Expectations.

That being said, I, personally, DO have one primary complaint... I think top-value cards (Perfects and Diamonds) are handed out way to fast early on. Here we are in Week 10 and almost all rosters in the top three levels are 2/3rds Diamond and 1/3rd Perfect cards. I do understand the need to feed the whales, but it seems to me a much better game if Gold and Silver cards had a longer lifespan than 6 weeks. I think it's fair to say that any new cards released from this point on that aren't at least Diamonds or Perfects simply are not interesting any more. Everyone is waiting for the Perfect Card that is better than the last Perfect Card that came out.

My complaint is that I have 3 perfect cards right now, two that I pulled in packs, and one that I paid for, and NONE of them perform up to their ratings. What's the point of the ratings if they just are all randomly chosen to slump for a whole season at the same time? What's going on there?

[daves]

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

WTH...let's make it a million!

&lt;&lt;sarc&gt;&gt;

LOL


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[daves]

Originally Posted by Mal3607

I advanced to Gold, so I am doing fine, and the 50,000 bonus was nice. .

Does PT+ make this 75000?


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