Option to use historical expansion drafts would be a good improvement

uruguru · 04-30-2023, 01:21 PM

It would be very nice if there were an option for expansion drafts to use the historical transactions for the draft.

If I want to play an expansion team in 1962, for example, the game already starts with the 1962 rosters for the Mets and Astros as if they had the historical draft. This means those teams more closely mirror their real-world performance before fictional trades and injuries start occurring. But when I get to 1969, the 4 new teams do not get this luxury and almost always end up with vastly inferior teams than what they had in the real world draft. To fix this, I now always just manually recreate the draft, as commissioner, according to those real transactions.

Having an option to replicate real-world drafts would do a lot towards improving the talent level and historical accuracy of new franchises as they enter the league.

Please consider this for future releases!

Pelican · 04-30-2023, 04:28 PM

Agree with you on historical accuracy. But on talent level, history has not been kind to expansion franchises. There are several ways to fix this in OOTP, so that the new teams are more competitive, and the leagues as a whole more balanced.

First, limit teams to 12 players protected (with an additional player protected, for each one lost). But also exclude players with less than three years MLB service time.

Second, if you can, allow the new franchises to start assembling young players before their first year. This is hard, because OOTP is not set up for organizations for teams not yet active, or to allow the future franchise to participate in the draft. But it’s only fair.

Third, implement a hard salary cap and a minimum salary level. This limits the influence of wealthy teams, and forces the small market teams and/or cheap owners to invest. That would include the expansions franchises, which should have money to sign free agents.

I have tried variations of these approaches, and the result is expansion franchises that are at least competitive (don’t suck). It also tends to promote something closer to parity among the other teams. The top-heavy best teams lose players. To me, it’s more fun than the teams with more money dominating. I mean, if you want inequality, then promotion/relegation divisions is the way to go.

uruguru · 04-30-2023, 05:29 PM

Working within the existing expansion draft framework is like treading water because:

a) Unlike the real world, the protection lists are made with knowledge of how the player will perform next season (i.e. his new ratings)

b) The AI for creating protection lists has some errors. For example, I once saw a pitcher left unprotected (and subsequently drafted) just two weeks before the AI voters chose him as pitcher of the year. Who leaves the Cy Young winner unprotected?

mgom27 · 04-30-2023, 08:16 PM

[QUOTE=Pelican;5005461
Second, if you can, allow the new franchises to start assembling young players before their first year. This is hard, because OOTP is not set up for organizations for teams not yet active, or to allow the future franchise to participate in the draft. But just add Teams to Minor Leagues the year before that are unaffiliated for a year then affiliated them with Expansion team the next year.

HerbD · 05-01-2023, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uruguru

It would be very nice if there were an option for expansion drafts to use the historical transactions for the draft.

If I want to play an expansion team in 1962, for example, the game already starts with the 1962 rosters for the Mets and Astros as if they had the historical draft. This means those teams more closely mirror their real-world performance before fictional trades and injuries start occurring. But when I get to 1969, the 4 new teams do not get this luxury and almost always end up with vastly inferior teams than what they had in the real world draft. To fix this, I now always just manually recreate the draft, as commissioner, according to those real transactions.

Having an option to replicate real-world drafts would do a lot towards improving the talent level and historical accuracy of new franchises as they enter the league.

Please consider this for future releases!

I do not see this as possible without starting in the expansion season. What if, in your scenario, six of the players that were drafted in the expansion draft in real life were moved to one team(trades, free agency, etc) then that team would lose those six players. I guess it could work if you played with historical transactions but you did mention fictional trades.

Pelican · 05-01-2023, 11:21 AM

I am experimenting with Florida Complex teams and Low A (Florida State League) teams for my future MLB expansion teams. The minor league teams are unaffiliated. The AI is busy stocking them with players. At this level, it seems unlikely they will be "poached" by other teams. But technically that is a risk - unless I can turn off the purchase from unaffiliated teams toggle option.

Still working on future expansion teams participating in the draft, the year before they exist on the MLB level. Not sure the draft rules are going to permit ghost teams participating.

uruguru · 05-01-2023, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerbD

I do not see this as possible without starting in the expansion season. What if, in your scenario, six of the players that were drafted in the expansion draft in real life were moved to one team(trades, free agency, etc) then that team would lose those six players. I guess it could work if you played with historical transactions but you did mention fictional trades.

The expansion draft happens very early in the offseason so there is plenty of time for teams adversely affected by the draft to sign free agents and make trades to deal with those effects.

Keep in mind that players that were drafted historically were intentionally left unprotected, so they are not front-line players.

fredbeene · 05-02-2023, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uruguru

It would be very nice if there were an option for expansion drafts to use the historical transactions for the draft.

If I want to play an expansion team in 1962, for example, the game already starts with the 1962 rosters for the Mets and Astros as if they had the historical draft. This means those teams more closely mirror their real-world performance before fictional trades and injuries start occurring. But when I get to 1969, the 4 new teams do not get this luxury and almost always end up with vastly inferior teams than what they had in the real world draft. To fix this, I now always just manually recreate the draft, as commissioner, according to those real transactions.

Having an option to replicate real-world drafts would do a lot towards improving the talent level and historical accuracy of new franchises as they enter the league.

Please consider this for future releases!

good luck, 20 years asking and it rarely if ever discussed

uruguru · 05-02-2023, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredbeene

good luck, 20 years asking and it rarely if ever discussed

I am more optimistic! I think it's important to describe in detail what feature you are requesting and why it would be a good general-use feature for the game. To me, the improvement in historical accuracy for expansions is a big selling point. Plus it will automatically address some AI issues that occur during the historical drafts.

It's not the end of the world either way. If they don't add it, I can just continue to disable the historical draft and then manually shift the players over the correct team. The game is sandbox enough for me to do that and historical drafts are so infrequent that it's not a deal breaker if they don't do it.

04-30-2023, 01:21 PM	#1
uruguru All Star Starter Join Date: May 2022 Posts: 1,272	Option to use historical expansion drafts would be a good improvement It would be very nice if there were an option for expansion drafts to use the historical transactions for the draft. If I want to play an expansion team in 1962, for example, the game already starts with the 1962 rosters for the Mets and Astros as if they had the historical draft. This means those teams more closely mirror their real-world performance before fictional trades and injuries start occurring. But when I get to 1969, the 4 new teams do not get this luxury and almost always end up with vastly inferior teams than what they had in the real world draft. To fix this, I now always just manually recreate the draft, as commissioner, according to those real transactions. Having an option to replicate real-world drafts would do a lot towards improving the talent level and historical accuracy of new franchises as they enter the league. Please consider this for future releases! Last edited by uruguru; 04-30-2023 at 01:22 PM.

04-30-2023, 04:28 PM	#2
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 2,983	Agree with you on historical accuracy. But on talent level, history has not been kind to expansion franchises. There are several ways to fix this in OOTP, so that the new teams are more competitive, and the leagues as a whole more balanced. First, limit teams to 12 players protected (with an additional player protected, for each one lost). But also exclude players with less than three years MLB service time. Second, if you can, allow the new franchises to start assembling young players before their first year. This is hard, because OOTP is not set up for organizations for teams not yet active, or to allow the future franchise to participate in the draft. But it’s only fair. Third, implement a hard salary cap and a minimum salary level. This limits the influence of wealthy teams, and forces the small market teams and/or cheap owners to invest. That would include the expansions franchises, which should have money to sign free agents. I have tried variations of these approaches, and the result is expansion franchises that are at least competitive (don’t suck). It also tends to promote something closer to parity among the other teams. The top-heavy best teams lose players. To me, it’s more fun than the teams with more money dominating. I mean, if you want inequality, then promotion/relegation divisions is the way to go. __________________ Pelican OOTP 2020-? ”Hard to believe, Harry.” Last edited by Pelican; 04-30-2023 at 04:31 PM. Reason: Typo

04-30-2023, 08:16 PM	#4
mgom27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,531	[QUOTE=Pelican;5005461 Second, if you can, allow the new franchises to start assembling young players before their first year. This is hard, because OOTP is not set up for organizations for teams not yet active, or to allow the future franchise to participate in the draft. But just add Teams to Minor Leagues the year before that are unaffiliated for a year then affiliated them with Expansion team the next year. __________________ Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

05-01-2023, 11:21 AM	#6
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 2,983	I am experimenting with Florida Complex teams and Low A (Florida State League) teams for my future MLB expansion teams. The minor league teams are unaffiliated. The AI is busy stocking them with players. At this level, it seems unlikely they will be "poached" by other teams. But technically that is a risk - unless I can turn off the purchase from unaffiliated teams toggle option. Still working on future expansion teams participating in the draft, the year before they exist on the MLB level. Not sure the draft rules are going to permit ghost teams participating. __________________ Pelican OOTP 2020-? ”Hard to believe, Harry.”

04-30-2023, 05:29 PM	#3
uruguru All Star Starter Join Date: May 2022 Posts: 1,272	Working within the existing expansion draft framework is like treading water because: a) Unlike the real world, the protection lists are made with knowledge of how the player will perform next season (i.e. his new ratings) b) The AI for creating protection lists has some errors. For example, I once saw a pitcher left unprotected (and subsequently drafted) just two weeks before the AI voters chose him as pitcher of the year. Who leaves the Cy Young winner unprotected?