Historical Minors Seems Broken

1991Twins · 04-09-2023, 06:17 AM

Something seems broken in OOTP 24 with historical minors. Mike Sweeney’s potential is .316 average w/o historical minors and .256 with them. Mike Piazza potential as a prospect is barely top 75 prospect with historical minors. Some players import fine, others have bizarre ratings for their potential. There is no rhyme or reason. The only thing for potential that I see is it is different for established MLB players when using “remaining peak seasons” with historical minors and without. Since their peak years wouldn’t change, why would potential ratings be different? I feel it may be worth having a look at the import process one more time. Right now, when new draft pools are revealed, I don’t trust the accuracy of players importing with historical minors and it almost feels unplayable.

luckymann · 04-09-2023, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1991Twins

Something seems broken in OOTP 24 with historical minors. Mike Sweeney’s potential is .316 average w/o historical minors and .256 with them. Mike Piazza potential as a prospect is barely top 75 prospect with historical minors. Some players import fine, others have bizarre ratings for their potential. There is no rhyme or reason. The only thing for potential that I see is it is different for established MLB players when using “remaining peak seasons” with historical minors and without. Since their peak years wouldn’t change, why would potential ratings be different? I feel it may be worth having a look at the import process one more time. Right now, when new draft pools are revealed, I don’t trust the accuracy of players importing with historical minors and it almost feels unplayable.

Two things to keep in mind are the massive changes to the Historical DB made for 24, which might contain errors, and the difference in default "make bad" settings for this version from previous.

For the first, I would do bug reports explaining what you are seeing and post them in that forum.

For the second, you will hear many opinions on what to use. I have always gone 120/100 and 25/18.

Hope that helps.

G

italyprof · 04-09-2023, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckymann

Two things to keep in mind are the massive changes to the Historical DB made for 24, which might contain errors, and the difference in default "make bad" settings for this version from previous.

For the first, I would do bug reports explaining what you are seeing and post them in that forum.

For the second, you will hear many opinions on what to use. I have always gone 120/100 and 25/18.

Hope that helps.

G

I have been using 150/50, and 20/10. Thinking my maje bad settings for batters is too high.

1991Twins · 04-09-2023, 03:20 PM

The issue is the player potentials for guys in the draft pool and upon league creation (if they were in the minor leagues that year). I have noticed it hitting players like Mike Piazza and Mike Sweeney. I even tried using last year's files in OOTP 24 and the issue is the same. I don't think it's the database....I think it is how the players are being imported. The issue can be replicated anytime you open a game (no matter what the make bad settings are, the potentials always import the same for younger players who have their remaining peak seasons in front of them).

To be clear, this is not an issue when you turn Historical Minors off. Players import just fine.

1991Twins · 04-09-2023, 03:36 PM

Here are 4 prospects from 1990 with historical minors enabled:

1991Twins · 04-09-2023, 03:37 PM

Same 4 players without historical minors:

RMc · 04-09-2023, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Mike Piazza potential as a prospect is barely top 75 prospect with historical minors.

Well, whaddya expect? The man was drafted in the 62nd round (and only as a favour to Piazza's father by Tommy Lasorda)!

The new database is a bit of a train wreck. Handle with care.

Charlie Hough · 04-10-2023, 05:08 PM

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm looking at the potential ratings column in the screenshots that you posted, and the potential ratings are virtually identical for Chipper Jones when comparing historical minors vs. non-historical minors. There is one or two points of difference between the individual potential ratings. However, there is definitely some significant variation with some of the other players. For example, Mike Piazza's potential power, avoid Ks, and BABIP are quite a bit different between the two versions.

Are you sure that you used the exact same potential calculation settings for your different saved games? If they weren't the same, you will probably see some variation. But it they were the same, then my guess is that the variation in potential ratings is based on which seasons are being counted as remaining peak seasons when historical minors seasons are included. Or maybe something is indeed broken. I would load up some OOTP 23 games with the exact same settings to see what results you get, and I would open up a bug report if you get further confirmation that things are working in strange ways.

thehef · 04-10-2023, 05:21 PM

I'm not sure if it's related, but perhaps worth mentioning in case it is. The following is a bug I reported a few weeks ago:

settings not applying to historical minor leagues
recalc and/or adjust/weaken and/or development settings not applying to minors
With historical minors enabled, with 1-year recalc, and development off, and adjust/weaken settings set within a normal range, guys who in real life played very little in a given season are having very good seasons in replays.

1991Twins · 04-11-2023, 01:28 AM

The potential settings are the same. They are using "remaining peak seasons." The OOTP 23 peak seasons are similar to the ones imported without historical minors enabled. I'm not sure what to make of this. Hopefully, a higher up will see this thread and can see if this is working as designed. Maybe the under the hood settings of a player in the modern 2023 era are different than stats from the past? Having said that, I would think numbers are numbers. Curious to see what may be found.

Charlie Hough · 04-12-2023, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1991Twins

Hopefully, a higher up will see this thread and can see if this is working as designed.

The only way to ensure that is to go to the bug reports forum and post something there. This should definitely be reviewed by the development team, but right now they're mostly focused on bug reports.

1991Twins · 04-13-2023, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

The only way to ensure that is to go to the bug reports forum and post something there. This should definitely be reviewed by the development team, but right now they're mostly focused on bug reports.

Alright I took your advice and posted it tonight when I had a chance....I hope someone can find out what's wrong. Historical is by far my favorite and it feels a little broken right now.

04-09-2023, 06:17 AM	#1
1991Twins Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2019 Posts: 499	Historical Minors Seems Broken Something seems broken in OOTP 24 with historical minors. Mike Sweeney’s potential is .316 average w/o historical minors and .256 with them. Mike Piazza potential as a prospect is barely top 75 prospect with historical minors. Some players import fine, others have bizarre ratings for their potential. There is no rhyme or reason. The only thing for potential that I see is it is different for established MLB players when using “remaining peak seasons” with historical minors and without. Since their peak years wouldn’t change, why would potential ratings be different? I feel it may be worth having a look at the import process one more time. Right now, when new draft pools are revealed, I don’t trust the accuracy of players importing with historical minors and it almost feels unplayable. Last edited by 1991Twins; 04-09-2023 at 06:21 AM.

04-09-2023, 03:20 PM	#4
1991Twins Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2019 Posts: 499	The issue is the player potentials for guys in the draft pool and upon league creation (if they were in the minor leagues that year). I have noticed it hitting players like Mike Piazza and Mike Sweeney. I even tried using last year's files in OOTP 24 and the issue is the same. I don't think it's the database....I think it is how the players are being imported. The issue can be replicated anytime you open a game (no matter what the make bad settings are, the potentials always import the same for younger players who have their remaining peak seasons in front of them). To be clear, this is not an issue when you turn Historical Minors off. Players import just fine. Last edited by 1991Twins; 04-09-2023 at 04:05 PM.

04-09-2023, 03:36 PM	#5
1991Twins Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2019 Posts: 499	Here are 4 prospects from 1990 with historical minors enabled: Attached Images

04-09-2023, 03:37 PM	#6
1991Twins Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2019 Posts: 499	Same 4 players without historical minors: Attached Images

04-10-2023, 05:08 PM	#8
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,644	Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm looking at the potential ratings column in the screenshots that you posted, and the potential ratings are virtually identical for Chipper Jones when comparing historical minors vs. non-historical minors. There is one or two points of difference between the individual potential ratings. However, there is definitely some significant variation with some of the other players. For example, Mike Piazza's potential power, avoid Ks, and BABIP are quite a bit different between the two versions. Are you sure that you used the exact same potential calculation settings for your different saved games? If they weren't the same, you will probably see some variation. But it they were the same, then my guess is that the variation in potential ratings is based on which seasons are being counted as remaining peak seasons when historical minors seasons are included. Or maybe something is indeed broken. I would load up some OOTP 23 games with the exact same settings to see what results you get, and I would open up a bug report if you get further confirmation that things are working in strange ways.

04-10-2023, 05:21 PM	#9
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,380	I'm not sure if it's related, but perhaps worth mentioning in case it is. The following is a bug I reported a few weeks ago: settings not applying to historical minor leagues recalc and/or adjust/weaken and/or development settings not applying to minors With historical minors enabled, with 1-year recalc, and development off, and adjust/weaken settings set within a normal range, guys who in real life played very little in a given season are having very good seasons in replays.

04-11-2023, 01:28 AM	#10
1991Twins Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2019 Posts: 499	The potential settings are the same. They are using "remaining peak seasons." The OOTP 23 peak seasons are similar to the ones imported without historical minors enabled. I'm not sure what to make of this. Hopefully, a higher up will see this thread and can see if this is working as designed. Maybe the under the hood settings of a player in the modern 2023 era are different than stats from the past? Having said that, I would think numbers are numbers. Curious to see what may be found.