One Conclusion I have Come to...

[PSUColonel]

I am the type of person who really wishes OOTP would focus on the GM side of baseball. I really don't care about visual graphics and the like as long as the UI is sleek and professional and can display games' with a well thought out and good looking game cast style webcast. I care much more bout financials, scouting, player development, roster rules, personnel and stats much more than I do about facegens or pants. I like things like logos that do help make the game a little more immersive, but if I were in charge of OOTP, I'd be much more of a Jim GIndin type in terms of focus, and less like an EA type. After all, I think that's why many of us are here. Obviously with the advent of PT and other features over the last 5-10 years, the things I care about (and many others I think) have taken a bit of a backseat in many ways. I also need a very competetive AI GM opponent, and that is still one of the weaker areas of the game. I don't see a real aggressive AI when it comes to waivers, trading block, free agents (in season) rule 5 draft etc... It kind of becomes easy to stockpile depth in your organization while the AI just sort of sits there and doesn't make a move for players who may not be stars, but are still serviceable and can help teams in terms of depth or handedness etc...

IT is what it is...I get it, so that's not really the main point of this post. Like I said, I like playing the role of GM the most, but have decided that in order to keep OOTP engaging, I need to be the GM/Manager. Otherwise, I just don't feel there is enough for the GM to do, and frankly, it's just less engaging. Now, if you ask me, a GM simulation should have enough to keep you engaged just being GM, but I just don't feel that way about OOTP. I think I need the day to day on field decision making just to have more to do and to be engaged. I like the slower pace of day to day play (even just as GM) which is why I think I need to now do both. How about you guys? I know some people just GM, others just manage and still many do both as well.

I just find myself getting bored otherwise since not much has really changed or been augmented in the front office area of the game.

[Anonymous Ghost]

I'm interested in being a GM/Manager. I usually manage game-by-game. At one point, I was doing pitch-by-pitch but that got too tedious. I usually play without the animations because it's faster and I don't find that it adds much to the immersion. I'd rather read the text as it comes in and use my imagination to visualize what's happening.

What I would like is key binds to set defense. Clicking on a drop down is kind of annoying and slows down play-by-play quite a bit.

[byzeil]

I play as GM and sim 7+ days at a time. Though I also set lineups and strategy and such so sort of hybrid GM. But I only play in online leagues because I don't find playing against the AI fun at all.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by byzeil

I play as GM and sim 7+ days at a time. Though I also set lineups and strategy and such so sort of hybrid GM. But I only play in online leagues because I don't find playing against the AI fun at all.

Yeah...I sort of feel the same. How is it that playing against the AI in a game such as FM or CIV can be so fun, yet not in one such as OOTP?

[Pelican]

Probably every single person who plays OOTP has slightly different priorities. I have come to respect and appreciate those who create new uniforms and logos, and especially those gorgeous stadiums, including historical ones from scant evidence. Graphics are not why I play the game, but it does enhance the experience.

I accept that the GM side of the game needs attention; although I like the many options we are given with finances, salary cap, arbitration, free agency. The AI can be stubborn (and foolish) on trades, at the high difficulty setting. It’s a real challenge to draft, build a farm system, nurture players, and negotiate salaries.

I still play out individual games, which mean that my multiple seasons in progress crawl along, as I look at every boxscore and make changes as Commissioner to help other teams. I still find game strategy a challenge, as well.

I’ve seen steady improvement in all aspects in my three years. Part of that came from new features and I gather new algorithms and programming. But part also came from patches and updates that dealt with bugs and glitches and weaknesses users like us had identified, and called to the attention of the developers. The customer service from OOTP is efficient, direct, responsive, and personal. I appreciate that. I know where to go with issues, and I know I’ll be heard.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Pelican

Probably every single person who plays OOTP has slightly different priorities. I have come to respect and appreciate those who create new uniforms and logos, and especially those gorgeous stadiums, including historical ones from scant evidence. Graphics are not why I play the game, but it does enhance the experience.

I accept that the GM side of the game needs attention; although I like the many options we are given with finances, salary cap, arbitration, free agency. The AI can be stubborn (and foolish) on trades, at the high difficulty setting. It’s a real challenge to draft, build a farm system, nurture players, and negotiate salaries.

I still play out individual games, which mean that my multiple seasons in progress crawl along, as I look at every boxscore and make changes as Commissioner to help other teams. I still find game strategy a challenge, as well.

I’ve seen steady improvement in all aspects in my three years. Part of that came from new features and I gather new algorithms and programming. But part also came from patches and updates that dealt with bugs and glitches and weaknesses users like us had identified, and called to the attention of the developers. The customer service from OOTP is efficient, direct, responsive, and personal. I appreciate that. I know where to go with issues, and I know I’ll be heard.

No doubt that over the years OOTPD has been very responsive and even collaborative at times. I would hope they would continue in this tradition, but with Com2US as the owners now, I don't know how things are going to roll in that respect. Lately though I am getting the feeling they are getting frustrated with the AI complaints and just say they will always work to continuing to improve it. (even though there are just so many legacy issues from years and years)

I know you have only been around a few years Pelican, so you might not understand some of the frustration people have with AI legacy issues that just don't seem to change. I suppose with some of this stuff you just have to assume they CAN'T re-work it for some reason.

[Pelican]

True, I came on the scene about the time the ownership changed, so I have no feel for the way things were, only for my generally favorable experience. [I still have not quite gotten over Markus helping with my newbie orientation.]. I was initially hopeful that a new owner would mean a deep pocket with resources to spend on those legacy issues that folks have identified. [That was how the transaction was portrayed. I know that many worry that the developers lost control and independence, or worse yet suffer as a mere subsidiary of a large gaming firm with other priorities…]. I gather that infusion of money has not happened. Of course, wholesale rewriting of code takes time (my wife does this), and the risk of changing one line is that the whole process will be affected. The Doctrine of Unintended Consequences. I get that. But I can also imagine how peeved I would become after twenty years or so of the same problems not being addressed.

[dodgerblue88]

Agree with you colonel, I am a GM only player and while I really enjoy the 3D improvements, it's the GM aspect of the game that hooked me 15 years ago and what keeps me going to this day. I will say that recently I found that increasing the AI evaluation more heavily towards ratings has made the game significantly more challenging, much harder to cheese the AI and find under the radar players. However, I would like to see AI teams more self aware of their weaknesses and more aggressive in player acquisition to fill these weaknesses, as opposed to the current system in which AI teams appear to value each player individually as opposed to looking at their marginal value to the current roster.

Head scratching AI free agency signings, the lack of activity at the trade deadline by contending teams, and unclaimed waiver players are areas that are in need of work.

[jimmysthebestcop]

it's a lot easier to just move onto a different game. Spread your wings try a bunch of different games and genres.

Ootp is what it is. Micro improvements year after year. Ootp will never have a gigantic evolution from version to version. It's almost best to just move on from ootp or play it a lot less.

Even if you get only 25 hours out of ootp a year I guess it's not a bad purchase in terms of entertainment. Movie theatre is like 20 bux for 2 hours.

It is important to separate baseball from ootp and the MLB from baseball. Ootp to it's credit is the foremost MLB simulation. But that necessarily doesn't mean it's the best baseball sim or the most fun/entertaining baseball sim.

And just in terms of game play not sport ootp can't come close to FM and I actually pay less for FM a year than ootp. To me it's not about the sport or genre it's just about the game play.

If I need a baseball fix think I'll be looking towards ZenGm for now on or just accept what ootp is spend the 40 bucks and just play it for half a dozen seasons and set it on the shelf.

[Karl Pagel Blues]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I am the type of person who really wishes OOTP would focus on the GM side of baseball.

I just find myself getting bored otherwise since not much has really changed or been augmented in the front office area of the game.

I agree with you Colonel.

The difficulty for OOTPD is they have to produce a "new" version every year. Every year, they have to add a few new features and some bells and whistles to justify the price of the "new" game. But what if the developers had TWO years to work on fixing and enhancing legacy problems such as finances and AI logic, which are at the heart of the GM experience?

What if there was no "new" version released next spring (or more realistically the spring of 2024)? All that would be available before the new season starts is an update of the existing game with new rosters and player ratings. Meanwhile, the OOTPD team finally has the necessary time to work deep under the hood to focus on improving the code that impacts GM play.

The problem for OOTP is how to bridge that extra year as far as revenue. Hardcore players may be willing to pay the full game price for only updated rosters while waiting for the release of the revamped game a year later. But most probably would not. What if OOTP offered users a choice to either pay the full price up-front as always or to switch to a subscription model of $5 per month for that year? The subscription model locks the user in for a minimum of 6 months, after which they can cancel the subscription or continue paying. There should be some sort of “reward” for those willing to pay essentially for only updated rosters. Maybe they would be able to get the all-new game one month before general release that next spring? Maybe they would be invited to participate in beta testing?

Of course, taking two years to release a new OOTP version would require the approval of the Korean owners. Plus, Markus and team would have to be 100% transparent about what is being done and why it's being done. Admit that re-writing this part of the code is extremely complex and will also require more in-depth testing to avoid the law of unintended consequences.

Maybe the first step for the developers should be a poll to see how many players are willing to either pay full price or to subscribe while giving the team the extra time it needs to fix these legacy issues.

[Bluenoser]

nm

[zappa1]

Oh boy. Same news, different station.

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

it's a lot easier to just move onto a different game. Spread your wings try a bunch of different games and genres.

Ootp is what it is. Micro improvements year after year. Ootp will never have a gigantic evolution from version to version. It's almost best to just move on from ootp or play it a lot less.

Even if you get only 25 hours out of ootp a year I guess it's not a bad purchase in terms of entertainment. Movie theatre is like 20 bux for 2 hours.

It is important to separate baseball from ootp and the MLB from baseball. Ootp to it's credit is the foremost MLB simulation. But that necessarily doesn't mean it's the best baseball sim or the most fun/entertaining baseball sim.

And just in terms of game play not sport ootp can't come close to FM and I actually pay less for FM a year than ootp. To me it's not about the sport or genre it's just about the game play.

If I need a baseball fix think I'll be looking towards ZenGm for now on or just accept what ootp is spend the 40 bucks and just play it for half a dozen seasons and set it on the shelf.

Then why do you keep coming back here to say the EXACT same thing you say in all your posts. Just go play that browser game and be quiet.

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by zappa1

Oh boy. Same news, different station.

This!!!

Can we lock this thread because you know it's going to get out of hand just like the others.....and in a few days another one will pop up.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by DJ_Jak_32

This!!!

Can we lock this thread because you know it's going to get out of hand just like the others.....and in a few days another one will pop up.

There is no reason to lock this thread. Why do you feel the need to lock threads? Nobody has gotten out of hand, and all that’s being discussed is the Front office aspects of OOTP and whether or not those features provide enough in game daily activity. I myself find that supplementing those with onfield management helps a bit to fill that void. I’m not understanding the need for less cling threads over a discussion such as that. There have been no insults and/or personal attacks here sir.

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

There is no reason to lock this thread. Why do you feel the need to lock threads? Nobody has gotten out of hand, and all that’s being discussed is the Front office aspects of OOTP and whether or not those features provide enough in game daily activity. I myself find that supplementing those with onfield management helps a bit to fill that void. I’m not understanding the need for less cling threads over a discussion such as that. There have been no insults and/or personal attacks here sir.

Just wait for it....whenever one of these kind of threads starts, it's usually with good intensions and I have no doubts that you opened this with the best intension and hopefully get the Devs to see it and take some action. But there are the same group of people who post the same stuff and it spirals out of control. We get it, there are aspects that need worked on, but it always turns into a flame war.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

There is no reason to lock this thread. Why do you feel the need to lock threads? Nobody has gotten out of hand, and all that’s being discussed is the Front office aspects of OOTP and whether or not those features provide enough in game daily activity. I myself find that supplementing those with onfield management helps a bit to fill that void. I’m not understanding the need for less cling threads over a discussion such as that. There have been no insults and/or personal attacks here sir.

This is just a suggestion, so take how ever you wish. Maybe if you started your threads with something other than gloom and doom about OOTP they might lead some where.

Your first 2 posts in this thread you said how OOTP is boring and not fun.

How does that invite conversation?

If the game is boring and not fun, maybe it's time to try another game?

I can only speak for myself, but I spend hours every single day playing OOTP. I'm far from bored and am having a ton of fun.

Please, spare me the "Don't you want to see OOTP improved" response.

Yes, I want the game to improve and grow. It does every year.

I just prefer to spend my time enjoying OOTP. Much more fun and a lot less boring than coming here and reading doom and gloom posts.

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

it's a lot easier to just move onto a different game. Spread your wings try a bunch of different games and genres.

Ootp is what it is. Micro improvements year after year. Ootp will never have a gigantic evolution from version to version. It's almost best to just move on from ootp or play it a lot less.

Even if you get only 25 hours out of ootp a year i guess it's not a bad purchase in terms of entertainment. Movie theatre is like 20 bux for 2 hours.

It is important to separate baseball from ootp and the mlb from baseball. Ootp to it's credit is the foremost mlb simulation. But that necessarily doesn't mean it's the best baseball sim or the most fun/entertaining baseball sim.

And just in terms of game play not sport ootp can't come close to fm and i actually pay less for fm a year than ootp. To me it's not about the sport or genre it's just about the game play.

If i need a baseball fix think i'll be looking towards zengm for now on or just accept what ootp is spend the 40 bucks and just play it for half a dozen seasons and set it on the shelf.

ban

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

This is just a suggestion, so take how ever you wish. Maybe if you started your threads with something other than gloom and doom about OOTP they might lead some where.

Your first 2 posts in this thread you said how OOTP is boring and not fun.

How does that invite conversation?

If the game is boring and not fun, maybe it's time to try another game?

I can only speak for myself, but I spend hours every single day playing OOTP. I'm far from bored and am having a ton of fun.

Please, spare me the "Don't you want to see OOTP improved" response.

Yes, I want the game to improve and grow. It does every year.

I just prefer to spend my time enjoying OOTP. Much more fun and a lot less boring than coming here and reading doom and gloom posts.

Good suggestion and advice.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I am the type of person who really wishes OOTP would focus on the GM side of baseball. I really don't care about visual graphics and the like as long as the UI is sleek and professional and can display games' with a well thought out and good looking game cast style webcast. I care much more bout financials, scouting, player development, roster rules, personnel and stats much more than I do about facegens or pants. I like things like logos that do help make the game a little more immersive, but if I were in charge of OOTP, I'd be much more of a Jim GIndin type in terms of focus, and less like an EA type. After all, I think that's why many of us are here. Obviously with the advent of PT and other features over the last 5-10 years, the things I care about (and many others I think) have taken a bit of a backseat in many ways. I also need a very competetive AI GM opponent, and that is still one of the weaker areas of the game. I don't see a real aggressive AI when it comes to waivers, trading block, free agents (in season) rule 5 draft etc... It kind of becomes easy to stockpile depth in your organization while the AI just sort of sits there and doesn't make a move for player who may not be stars, but a serviceable and can help teams in terms of depth or handedness etc...

IT is what it is...I get it, so that's not really the main point of this post. Like I said, I like playing the role of GM the most, but have decided that in order to keep OOTP engaging, I need to be the GM/Manager. Otherwise, I just don't feel there is enough for the GM to do, and frankly, it's just less engaging. Now, if you ask me, a GM simulation should have enough to keep you engaged just being GM, but I just don't feel that way about OOTP. I think I need the day to day infield decision making just to have more to do and to be engaged. I like the slower pace of day to day play (even just as GM) which is why I think I need to now do both. How about you guys? I know some people just GM, others just manage and still many do both as well.

I just find myself getting bored otherwise since not much has really changed or been augmented in the front office area of the game.

PSUColonel, in my OOTP experience, my ignorance is bliss... I don't play in the GM Mode... not my interest... I'm into graphics and 3D animation... not the finances and team management... however, I can sympathize with you a lot... we all have our frustrations with certain areas of OOTP Baseball, but most of us have learned to live with them and not dwell on them... otherwise we can't enjoy the game.

I hope you and others like you can find a baseball game you enjoy playing like many of us have in OOTP.

Meanwhile it seems that OOTP is the best choice any of you have for baseball management.