Roster Transactions Clarification

PSUColonel · 11-29-2022, 03:29 PM

Does a player with a major league contract have to be on the 40-man roster, or can the player be on a AAA roster after having cleared waivers, even while retaining a ML contract? So, if the player is no longer on the 40 man roster, but still has a ML contract, can he be ok playing at AAA without taking up a 40 man roster spot?

Palaaemon · 11-29-2022, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Does a player with a major league contract have to be on the 40-man roster, or can the player be on a AAA roster after having cleared waivers, even while retaining a ML contract? So, if the player is no longer on the 40 man roster, but still has a ML contract, can he be ok playing at AAA without taking up a 40 man roster spot?

A player with a major league contract must be on the 40 man roster. Separate from that he can be on the active roster or in the minors if circumstances allow. Players with minor league contracts do not have to be on the 40 man roster.

Hope this clarifies this for you.

MathBandit · 11-29-2022, 04:08 PM

Players with Major-League contracts can definitely be in the minors and not taking up a 40-man spot if they cleared Waivers.

Sweed · 11-29-2022, 05:20 PM

I believe you have to DFA and waive him to take him off the 40 man. Once that is done playing in the minors, while on the MLB deal, won't be a problem.

BIG17EASY · 11-29-2022, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweed

I believe you have to DFA and waive him to take him off the 40 man. Once that is done playing in the minors, while on the MLB deal, won't be a problem.

Correct. The only potential problem is if the player has the right to refuse an assignment to the minors.

Palaaemon · 11-29-2022, 07:37 PM

Thanks guys.

. I knew that but had a brain fart. Sorry for the confusion.

I guess my signature bit me in the arse eh? Lol

PSUColonel · 11-29-2022, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathBandit

Players with Major-League contracts can definitely be in the minors and not taking up a 40-man spot if they cleared Waivers.

Yes, this is what I was asking. I didn’t know if this was correct or not.

PSUColonel · 11-29-2022, 08:14 PM

Thank you for answering this. I just wanted to make sure it wasn’t a loophole.

PSUColonel · 11-29-2022, 11:08 PM

Ok..here is another one: If you have a player in AAA and he has a minor league contract, but is also rule 5 draft eligible, you will need to add him to the 40 man roster to protect him from being picked up in the Rule 5 draft. If you do this, will the player in question be given a major league contract because you added him the the 40 man roster, or will he retain his minor league contract status?

Rain King · 11-30-2022, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Ok..here is another one: If you have a player in AAA and he has a minor league contract, but is also rule 5 draft eligible, you will need to add him to the 40 man roster to protect him from being picked up in the Rule 5 draft. If you do this, will the player in question be given a major league contract because you added him the the 40 man roster, or will he retain his minor league contract status?

The player is still on a minor league contract, but it is typically a significant pay bump as there are negotiated minimum salaries for this situation in the CBA.

In OOTP, it would still just be the generic "minor league contract".

Iron · 11-30-2022, 07:13 AM

It doesn't really apply to OOTP, but I searched for more information on the 40-man roster rules as I found this interesting.

An article on MLB's site said the following:
"There are financial advantages, too. Minor League players not on a 40-man roster are paid from April through August, while rostered players earn an extra month of salary in September whether they’re promoted or not.

“Financially, it’s normally a big boost in salary, and you have the opportunity to go to MLB camp and prove yourself,” Yankees reliever Zack Britton said. “Those are probably the biggest benefits and why it’s so important for players.”

Another article mentioned the following:
"40 Man Benefits include but are not limited to:

$41,400 minimum minor league salary for all Players signing a first Major League contract without having at least one day of Major League service

$82,700 minimum for a player signing a second major league contract without having at least one day of Major League service"

And also this:
"All players on a 40-man roster receive a paycheck from Major League Baseball. However, the amount varies depending on a number of factors. For example, players with less than three years of service time in the majors will make the league minimum, which is just over $500,000 this season. Players with more service time can make significantly more. The 40-man roster also includes a number of players who are not on the active roster. These players are typically minor leaguers who have been called up to the majors for a short period of time, or they may be major leaguers who are injured and unable to play. Either way, they still get paid their MLB salary. So, while the majority of the players on a 40-man roster may not see much playing time, they are all still getting paid by Major League Baseball."

MLB roster rules are so complex!

MathBandit · 11-30-2022, 07:42 AM

The one roster rule quirk I ran into similar to this was in/after Spring Training in an online league a few weeks ago.

I had players in my MiLB system who were on MLB contracts but not on the 40-man because they had previously been DFA'd and cleared Waivers so were just in AAA. When Spring Training started, I did what I always do and called up the full 60 players by bringing up first high-end prospects then anyone who might be able to fight for the roster bubble, which included some of those previously-DFA'd players. Once Spring Training ended though and I wanted to pare down to my 25-man, I couldn't demote any of those 'MLB-contract' guys without DFAing/Waiving them again.

My guess is that's an OOTP problem and not a rule MLB rule because OOTP doesn't differentiate between ST roster invitees and the Active Roster, so to the game it looked like they had been called up despite not having been put back on the 40-man.

PSUColonel · 11-30-2022, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain King

The player is still on a minor league contract, but it is typically a significant pay bump as there are negotiated minimum salaries for this situation in the CBA.

In OOTP, it would still just be the generic "minor league contract".

Yes, this indeed seems to be the case...thanks

PSUColonel · 11-30-2022, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathBandit

The one roster rule quirk I ran into similar to this was in/after Spring Training in an online league a few weeks ago.

I had players in my MiLB system who were on MLB contracts but not on the 40-man because they had previously been DFA'd and cleared Waivers so were just in AAA. When Spring Training started, I did what I always do and called up the full 60 players by bringing up first high-end prospects then anyone who might be able to fight for the roster bubble, which included some of those previously-DFA'd players. Once Spring Training ended though and I wanted to pare down to my 25-man, I couldn't demote any of those 'MLB-contract' guys without DFAing/Waiving them again.

My guess is that's an OOTP problem and not a rule MLB rule because OOTP doesn't differentiate between ST roster invitees and the Active Roster, so to the game it looked like they had been called up despite not having been put back on the 40-man.

OK...this is the type of thing that should likely be brought to the developers' attention...if they are even paying attention here anymore. lol

But seriously, yes this is the type of thing that they should know about.

EDIT: I made them aware.

Sweed · 11-30-2022, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

OK...this is the type of thing that should likely be brought to the developers' attention...if they are even paying attention here anymore. lol

But seriously, yes this is the type of thing that they should know about.

EDIT: I made them aware.

Are we sure about how this is done IRL? I don't really know.

A player has an MLB contract but was waivered, DFA, and demoted to AAA last year. Are we sure, IRL, that clock doesn't reset when a new season starts? Is it possible the CBA (collective bargaining agreement) covers this issue as a way for a player to be selected via waivers and make their way back to MLB rather than being held in the minors? Which is pretty much the intent of Waiver\DFA during the season.

I have seen this behavior in the past in OOTP and assumed it was because of the CBA , IE anyone on a MLB contract that is not on the 40 man\active roster would need to be Waiver\DFA before the new season started and clear those waivers before being demoted.

As noted in my first line I don't know the answer but, before we ask for a fix we need to be sure of the rules first. Of course if you already do know the real life rule then disregard my post.

MathBandit · 11-30-2022, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweed

Are we sure about how this is done IRL? I don't really know.

A player has an MLB contract but was waivered, DFA, and demoted to AAA last year. Are we sure, IRL, that clock doesn't reset when a new season starts? Is it possible the CBA (collective bargaining agreement) covers this issue as a way for a player to be selected via waivers and make their way back to MLB rather than being held in the minors? Which is pretty much the intent of Waiver\DFA during the season.

I have seen this behavior in the past in OOTP and assumed it was because of the CBA , IE anyone on a MLB contract that is not on the 40 man\active roster would need to be Waiver\DFA before the new season started and clear those waivers before being demoted.

As noted in my first line I don't know the answer but, before we ask for a fix we need to be sure of the rules first. Of course if you already do know the real life rule then disregard my post.

I believe real MLB/CBA handles it through R5 (which is accurately portrayed in OOTP), because those players on MLB-contracts that aren't on the 40-man in December are Rule5-eligible.

BIG17EASY · 11-30-2022, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathBandit

The one roster rule quirk I ran into similar to this was in/after Spring Training in an online league a few weeks ago.

I had players in my MiLB system who were on MLB contracts but not on the 40-man because they had previously been DFA'd and cleared Waivers so were just in AAA. When Spring Training started, I did what I always do and called up the full 60 players by bringing up first high-end prospects then anyone who might be able to fight for the roster bubble, which included some of those previously-DFA'd players. Once Spring Training ended though and I wanted to pare down to my 25-man, I couldn't demote any of those 'MLB-contract' guys without DFAing/Waiving them again.

My guess is that's an OOTP problem and not a rule MLB rule because OOTP doesn't differentiate between ST roster invitees and the Active Roster, so to the game it looked like they had been called up despite not having been put back on the 40-man.

OOTP definitely differentiates between the spring training roster and the active roster. On your transactions page where you can drag and drop players from different levels, you should be able to set one of the rosters to the spring training roster via the dropdown menu. That's where you can add spring training invitees who aren't on your 40-man without adding them to the active roster (which is the 40-man roster during the offseason and spring training). This ensures that they don't need to clear waivers in order to be sent back down if they don't make the opening day roster.

MathBandit · 11-30-2022, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

OOTP definitely differentiates between the spring training roster and the active roster. On your transactions page where you can drag and drop players from different levels, you should be able to set one of the rosters to the spring training roster via the dropdown menu. That's where you can add spring training invitees who aren't on your 40-man without adding them to the active roster (which is the 40-man roster during the offseason and spring training). This ensures that they don't need to clear waivers in order to be sent back down if they don't make the opening day roster.

I'm aware of how OOTP rosters work. I am saying that in my case when I added them to the ST roster (and not added them to the 40-man), I could not then demote them on Opening Day because there was a pop-up saying they needed to be on the 40-man due to having a Major League contract.

I will try and start a new game and sim the 2022 season to recreate the issue and show a screenshot.

BIG17EASY · 11-30-2022, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathBandit

I'm aware of how OOTP rosters work. I am saying that in my case when I added them to the ST roster (and not added them to the 40-man), I could not then demote them on Opening Day because there was a pop-up saying they needed to be on the 40-man due to having a Major League contract.

I will try and start a new game and sim the 2022 season to recreate the issue and show a screenshot.

Are you definitely doing this on opening day? This sounds to me like a consequence of the timing. It's been a while since I went through spring training, but if my memory serves me, when you advance to opening day the spring training roster automatically converts to the active (25-man or whatever your settings are) roster. If there are any non-roster invitees still on that roster, you'll get a pop-up telling you that they are on your active roster, but also need to be on your 40-man roster. It sounds to me like that's the pop-up you're getting. If I'm correct, you should be able to demote them without issue.

Matt Arnold · 11-30-2022, 02:52 PM

I think they should technically not have to clear waivers/DFA again in that case. Some quick checks showed that Rusney Castillo was invited to spring training after he was DFA-ed, and I don't think the team would have been forced to DFA him again after those invites. As with most things, there's some corner cases where we may require an action just because we can't always be sure this was intended vs some sort of weird error where a guy got removed from the 40-man roster not in the expected setup.

11-29-2022, 03:29 PM	#1
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,094	Roster Transactions Clarification Does a player with a major league contract have to be on the 40-man roster, or can the player be on a AAA roster after having cleared waivers, even while retaining a ML contract? So, if the player is no longer on the 40 man roster, but still has a ML contract, can he be ok playing at AAA without taking up a 40 man roster spot?

11-29-2022, 07:37 PM	#6
Palaaemon Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 263	Thanks guys. . I knew that but had a brain fart. Sorry for the confusion. I guess my signature bit me in the arse eh? Lol __________________ I don't have to run faster than the bear, just faster than you.

11-29-2022, 04:08 PM	#3
MathBandit All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 1,445	Players with Major-League contracts can definitely be in the minors and not taking up a 40-man spot if they cleared Waivers.

11-29-2022, 05:20 PM	#4
Sweed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 6,608	I believe you have to DFA and waive him to take him off the 40 man. Once that is done playing in the minors, while on the MLB deal, won't be a problem.

11-29-2022, 08:14 PM	#8
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,094	Thank you for answering this. I just wanted to make sure it wasn’t a loophole.

11-29-2022, 11:08 PM	#9
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,094	Ok..here is another one: If you have a player in AAA and he has a minor league contract, but is also rule 5 draft eligible, you will need to add him to the 40 man roster to protect him from being picked up in the Rule 5 draft. If you do this, will the player in question be given a major league contract because you added him the the 40 man roster, or will he retain his minor league contract status?

11-30-2022, 07:13 AM	#11
Iron Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 6	It doesn't really apply to OOTP, but I searched for more information on the 40-man roster rules as I found this interesting. An article on MLB's site said the following: "There are financial advantages, too. Minor League players not on a 40-man roster are paid from April through August, while rostered players earn an extra month of salary in September whether they’re promoted or not. “Financially, it’s normally a big boost in salary, and you have the opportunity to go to MLB camp and prove yourself,” Yankees reliever Zack Britton said. “Those are probably the biggest benefits and why it’s so important for players.” Another article mentioned the following: "40 Man Benefits include but are not limited to: $41,400 minimum minor league salary for all Players signing a first Major League contract without having at least one day of Major League service $82,700 minimum for a player signing a second major league contract without having at least one day of Major League service" And also this: "All players on a 40-man roster receive a paycheck from Major League Baseball. However, the amount varies depending on a number of factors. For example, players with less than three years of service time in the majors will make the league minimum, which is just over $500,000 this season. Players with more service time can make significantly more. The 40-man roster also includes a number of players who are not on the active roster. These players are typically minor leaguers who have been called up to the majors for a short period of time, or they may be major leaguers who are injured and unable to play. Either way, they still get paid their MLB salary. So, while the majority of the players on a 40-man roster may not see much playing time, they are all still getting paid by Major League Baseball." MLB roster rules are so complex!

11-30-2022, 07:42 AM	#12
MathBandit All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 1,445	The one roster rule quirk I ran into similar to this was in/after Spring Training in an online league a few weeks ago. I had players in my MiLB system who were on MLB contracts but not on the 40-man because they had previously been DFA'd and cleared Waivers so were just in AAA. When Spring Training started, I did what I always do and called up the full 60 players by bringing up first high-end prospects then anyone who might be able to fight for the roster bubble, which included some of those previously-DFA'd players. Once Spring Training ended though and I wanted to pare down to my 25-man, I couldn't demote any of those 'MLB-contract' guys without DFAing/Waiving them again. My guess is that's an OOTP problem and not a rule MLB rule because OOTP doesn't differentiate between ST roster invitees and the Active Roster, so to the game it looked like they had been called up despite not having been put back on the 40-man.

11-30-2022, 02:52 PM	#20
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,719	I think they should technically not have to clear waivers/DFA again in that case. Some quick checks showed that Rusney Castillo was invited to spring training after he was DFA-ed, and I don't think the team would have been forced to DFA him again after those invites. As with most things, there's some corner cases where we may require an action just because we can't always be sure this was intended vs some sort of weird error where a guy got removed from the 40-man roster not in the expected setup.