Thoughts on the in-game Hall of Fame

LansdowneSt · 11-11-2022, 05:27 PM

One of my favorite parts of baseball is the Hall of Fame. I'm the kind of guy that, upon release of the real-life ballot, is refreshing NotMrTibbs' HOF tracker multiple times a day. I even love a good "Building the Ballot" podcast listening to the merits of Dick Allen, Dwight Evans and Bill Dahlen and I think I've read virtually everything Jay Jaffe has written on the subject. So, one of my favorite parts of the game is the HOF elections in OOTP. But I've always wanted a little bit more.... a Veteran's Committee, removing anachronistic uniforms and logos, a proper place for managers, etc. That being said, I put some thought into what these game elements might literally look like, and I'd be curious what others would like, assuming you too are a fan of that part of the game.

I'll hit on each of these screenshots a little bit, but the added parts to the Game Settings HOF options should speak for themselves. For example, I tried to automate the "Era"s that would be assessed by a Veteren's Committee. The regular HOF balloting process works well, so I don't see why the Era Committee couldn't also. Don't tell me that I can be Commissioner and put people in. I know. It's a lazy argument that, if followed to its natural extreme, would eliminate the in-game regular HOF voting process and numerous other game mechanics.

The "Special Elections" I put would be one where perhaps the user could right-click through the retired player list and add players to a ballot and build a ballot of one's own. So, think the NeL players. Or if I think 3B's are underrepresented, I could put a bunch of 3B on their own ballot. etc. So not auto-selected by era but manually selected for a ballot.

When it is an era ballot or special ballot, I don't know if the game needs to make it "easier" to get in (lower standards as it were) or to otherwise realize this is a one-and-done vote, so they don't start low in an algorithm designed to build momentum over a multiple year ballot run. Maybe the strength of the competition of the other candidates is sufficient to make one player stand out. I'm also not worried about using the existing engine that uses percentages to the tenth place for results, as a news article could round accordingly in an article to present the story as if a small committee voted.

For the managers, I think a separate tab is necessary. It's always strange reading the auto-generated text for Philadelphia Phillies 2B great, Sparky Anderson, and his .531 OPS. Or see the great Dodger manager Walter Alston's plaque honoring his 2 years of playing time for a AAA club. Ship the game with them in a Manager's Wing and if a manager gets, I dunno, 1,750 wins in the game, auto-put him in and list those wins. I put an age element in the hopes he'd be retired as OOTP rarely lets players go full Connie Mack. Heck, manager win milestones as news articles might be a good add too as milestones are reached or others passed. Their own manager wing will also mean that they stop pulling down the player stat average for various positions in the Hall. Maybe we the users can even make that Manager Hall one day in a long-time sim.

Lastly, it drives me nuts that the HOF generates the greats of the games at ages of 100+. Sure, if they were alive, they'd be old and look like that. But it's their plaque. If you go to a long-retired player's page, the aged facegens will revert to youthful faces if you auto-reload the facegen in the Player Editor. It's that second generation that makes them young again. The HOF needs a mass "regeneration button" to redo the plaques on-demand. This might fix all the yellow, wrinkled faces. It could also allow reloading of more appropriate logos and uniform. To that end the last tweak that I tried to envision is an option in the Player Editor that lets you overwrite the default retired uniform and manually overwrite where the game pulls the HOF logo from. That way, a player like Kid could have a regenerated plaque more in alignment with his era. Tim Raines could cease to be a Washington National. Bob Feller would stop being in Guardian garb. Walter Johnson... not a modern Twin. Obviously, if nothing is in the overwrite part of the Player Editor, the game continues to do what it does presently.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Is there anything out there I missed that users would like?

20_range · 11-14-2022, 08:41 AM

Is any of this available as a mod? I would love a better Hall of Fame! Currently I am the entire Veterans Committee, and the one in charge of correcting obvious oversights (like how Ichiro and Shohei are never voted in by the AI).
I particularly like your special ballot concept. That one is better than how the actual HOF operates.

discodude5 · 11-15-2022, 10:05 PM

Love the ideas and the effort you put into the mock ups. Hof'ers in the wrong uniform like your examples are so immersion breaking so I hope they can get your ideas to work.

GTAltman · 11-16-2022, 12:51 AM

I would love to see added, rankings in categories upon retirement.

For example, Willie Mays was 3rd in HRs when he retired, however, when reviewing the HR list in real time, he’s like 6th (? - Bonds, Aaron, Ruth, Pinole, ARod).

Kinda would give perspective to a players accomplishments in context to where they were.

Would also like to see GM’s for leagues be able to qualify for HOF enshrinement.

Just my 2¢

percolaten · 11-16-2022, 10:29 AM

I can't tell you how many times I've seen that Walter Alston plaque...couldn't agree with you more! Also, and this is not HOF related, but has to do with honoring the greats: we should be able to retire letters in addition to numbers. For example, in real life, the Brewers have "BU" for Bob Uecker on display, next to Molitor, Yount, Fingers' etc.'s numbers. This would also be a good way to acknowledge Deadball-era greats who didn't wear numbers.

RoyalTeal · 11-16-2022, 11:12 AM

Mockup looks great! I do think that the game having to work with/around the shenanigans of the BBWAA and the HOF is hilarious

tm1681 · 11-26-2022, 04:35 PM

A bit late, but I think it would also be fun if you were able to, for an in-game universe with multiple independent professional leagues, to have one all-encompassing Hall of Fame.

OmahaBaseball · 11-27-2022, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTAltman

I would love to see added, rankings in categories upon retirement.

For example, Willie Mays was 3rd in HRs when he retired, however, when reviewing the HR list in real time, he’s like 6th (? - Bonds, Aaron, Ruth, Pinole, ARod).

Kinda would give perspective to a players accomplishments in context to where they were. Just my 2¢

Myself and others have been asking/hoping for this to be incorporated into the game for a long time -- fingers crossed that we finally see it in v24...

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=339529

.

11-11-2022, 05:27 PM	#1
LansdowneSt Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: From Duxbury, Mass residing Baltimore Posts: 8,229	Thoughts on the in-game Hall of Fame One of my favorite parts of baseball is the Hall of Fame. I'm the kind of guy that, upon release of the real-life ballot, is refreshing NotMrTibbs' HOF tracker multiple times a day. I even love a good "Building the Ballot" podcast listening to the merits of Dick Allen, Dwight Evans and Bill Dahlen and I think I've read virtually everything Jay Jaffe has written on the subject. So, one of my favorite parts of the game is the HOF elections in OOTP. But I've always wanted a little bit more.... a Veteran's Committee, removing anachronistic uniforms and logos, a proper place for managers, etc. That being said, I put some thought into what these game elements might literally look like, and I'd be curious what others would like, assuming you too are a fan of that part of the game. I'll hit on each of these screenshots a little bit, but the added parts to the Game Settings HOF options should speak for themselves. For example, I tried to automate the "Era"s that would be assessed by a Veteren's Committee. The regular HOF balloting process works well, so I don't see why the Era Committee couldn't also. Don't tell me that I can be Commissioner and put people in. I know. It's a lazy argument that, if followed to its natural extreme, would eliminate the in-game regular HOF voting process and numerous other game mechanics. The "Special Elections" I put would be one where perhaps the user could right-click through the retired player list and add players to a ballot and build a ballot of one's own. So, think the NeL players. Or if I think 3B's are underrepresented, I could put a bunch of 3B on their own ballot. etc. So not auto-selected by era but manually selected for a ballot. When it is an era ballot or special ballot, I don't know if the game needs to make it "easier" to get in (lower standards as it were) or to otherwise realize this is a one-and-done vote, so they don't start low in an algorithm designed to build momentum over a multiple year ballot run. Maybe the strength of the competition of the other candidates is sufficient to make one player stand out. I'm also not worried about using the existing engine that uses percentages to the tenth place for results, as a news article could round accordingly in an article to present the story as if a small committee voted. For the managers, I think a separate tab is necessary. It's always strange reading the auto-generated text for Philadelphia Phillies 2B great, Sparky Anderson, and his .531 OPS. Or see the great Dodger manager Walter Alston's plaque honoring his 2 years of playing time for a AAA club. Ship the game with them in a Manager's Wing and if a manager gets, I dunno, 1,750 wins in the game, auto-put him in and list those wins. I put an age element in the hopes he'd be retired as OOTP rarely lets players go full Connie Mack. Heck, manager win milestones as news articles might be a good add too as milestones are reached or others passed. Their own manager wing will also mean that they stop pulling down the player stat average for various positions in the Hall. Maybe we the users can even make that Manager Hall one day in a long-time sim. Lastly, it drives me nuts that the HOF generates the greats of the games at ages of 100+. Sure, if they were alive, they'd be old and look like that. But it's their plaque. If you go to a long-retired player's page, the aged facegens will revert to youthful faces if you auto-reload the facegen in the Player Editor. It's that second generation that makes them young again. The HOF needs a mass "regeneration button" to redo the plaques on-demand. This might fix all the yellow, wrinkled faces. It could also allow reloading of more appropriate logos and uniform. To that end the last tweak that I tried to envision is an option in the Player Editor that lets you overwrite the default retired uniform and manually overwrite where the game pulls the HOF logo from. That way, a player like Kid could have a regenerated plaque more in alignment with his era. Tim Raines could cease to be a Washington National. Bob Feller would stop being in Guardian garb. Walter Johnson... not a modern Twin. Obviously, if nothing is in the overwrite part of the Player Editor, the game continues to do what it does presently. Anyway, those are my thoughts. Is there anything out there I missed that users would like? Attached Images __________________ Complete Universe Facegen Pack 2.0 (mine included) https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi...k_2.0.zip/file Just my Facegen Pack: https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi..._Pack.zip/file

11-16-2022, 12:51 AM	#4
GTAltman Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: South Carolina Posts: 351	I would love to see added, rankings in categories upon retirement. For example, Willie Mays was 3rd in HRs when he retired, however, when reviewing the HR list in real time, he’s like 6th (? - Bonds, Aaron, Ruth, Pinole, ARod). Kinda would give perspective to a players accomplishments in context to where they were. Would also like to see GM’s for leagues be able to qualify for HOF enshrinement. Just my 2¢ __________________ PBAL Commissioner http://statsplus.net/PBAL

11-14-2022, 08:41 AM	#2
20_range All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2022 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 1,618	Is any of this available as a mod? I would love a better Hall of Fame! Currently I am the entire Veterans Committee, and the one in charge of correcting obvious oversights (like how Ichiro and Shohei are never voted in by the AI). I particularly like your special ballot concept. That one is better than how the actual HOF operates.

11-15-2022, 10:05 PM	#3
discodude5 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 371	Love the ideas and the effort you put into the mock ups. Hof'ers in the wrong uniform like your examples are so immersion breaking so I hope they can get your ideas to work.

11-16-2022, 10:29 AM	#5
percolaten All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2021 Location: West Posts: 789	I can't tell you how many times I've seen that Walter Alston plaque...couldn't agree with you more! Also, and this is not HOF related, but has to do with honoring the greats: we should be able to retire letters in addition to numbers. For example, in real life, the Brewers have "BU" for Bob Uecker on display, next to Molitor, Yount, Fingers' etc.'s numbers. This would also be a good way to acknowledge Deadball-era greats who didn't wear numbers.

11-16-2022, 11:12 AM	#6
RoyalTeal Bat Boy Join Date: Nov 2022 Posts: 1	Mockup looks great! I do think that the game having to work with/around the shenanigans of the BBWAA and the HOF is hilarious

11-26-2022, 04:35 PM	#7
tm1681 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 1,775	A bit late, but I think it would also be fun if you were able to, for an in-game universe with multiple independent professional leagues, to have one all-encompassing Hall of Fame.