Evaluate Relief Pitchers

Anteater · 05-10-2022, 07:35 PM

Which stats do you use to evaluate relief pitchers and are those stats different from what you use for starting pitchers?

Hooray Saturday · 05-10-2022, 07:42 PM

K/9, BB/9, HR/9, no.

SirSaab · 05-10-2022, 08:04 PM

FIP, K/9, BB/9, AVG.

I *mostly* evaluate SP the same, but also look at BABIP and fWAR as well. I’m particularly interested in BB/9 for relievers, and find it very important because often relievers will have a low control rating. I want to see if that plays in-game, or if the subject actually demonstrates better control than his rating suggests.

Curve Ball Dave · 05-10-2022, 10:10 PM

If I'm evaluating the performance of a reliever I look at one thing; did he hold a lead or keep the team in the game so we had a chance to win or didn't he? It's that simple.

I don't bother with cumulative stats, one bad game to throw everything out of kilter. I study the game logs, I look at how many games he's been in versus how many times he's been scored on. I look at blown holds and saves, I look at inherited runners scored. I frankly couldn't care less what his K rate is if in between strike outs he's giving up hits that cost my team the game at a rate I deem unacceptable.

I just unloaded my closer. He wasn't blowing small leads, instead he was blowing big leads and he had done it enough times that I had enough. I traded him straight up for another team's closer who, after looking at his game logs, has been much more consistent when it comes to preventing runs, especially in droves like the bum I traded.

I don't overthink things. The ultimate stat is the team's W/L record, that's all that matters.

PSUColonel · 05-10-2022, 11:06 PM

I wish as far as overall/potential ratings go....they'd adjust RP to be in line with how they are actually valued, and not artificially inflated.

KBLover · 05-11-2022, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

Which stats do you use to evaluate relief pitchers and are those stats different from what you use for starting pitchers?

HR/9 for me by far for relievers...and pretty much all pitchers with BB/9 being next.

I almost always prioritize defense on my teams, so I need pitchers that first and foremost keep the ball in play so the defense has more chances to flash the leather and have enough control to make the hitters swing the bat.

If they swing and miss, great...and in a modern setup, the strike outs probably are almost a given

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

I just unloaded my closer. He wasn't blowing small leads, instead he was blowing big leads and he had done it enough times that I had enough. I traded him straight up for another team's closer who, after looking at his game logs, has been much more consistent when it comes to preventing runs, especially in droves like the bum I traded.

Heh, yeah for sure I'd dump a guy like that. I've certainly had some underperformers like that and they don't stick around long if they can't pull it together. Sometimes a guy just doesn't click. Either my scout was wrong or he hasn't picked up on a drop yet or...who knows. I feel like there's some variance in "effective" rating sometimes and if a guy keeps lowballing...bye. I'll take my chances on the next man up.

MathBandit · 05-11-2022, 07:39 AM

Couldn't care less about Holds, Saves, Blown Saves, Wins, Losses, or anything else like that. ERA is also useless for relievers to me.

K%, B%, K%-BB%, and HR/9 are the main stats I look at for relievers specifically. I'll keep tabs on IRS% to see if at any point I think it provides more signal than noise. I also do keep WPA on my main pitching screen not necessarily as a judge of my relievers, but as a way to judge that the pitchers are being used properly.

Pelican · 05-11-2022, 02:50 PM

I agree with the posts emphasizing analytics, and a deep dive into game-by-game performance is worth doing, too. I also look at the role I want a RP to fill. For closers, for example, stamina doesn’t matter, HR/9 and BB/9 are critical. I don’t crave K/9 like some, because a ground ball can yield two outs. I’m big on matchups, and look for situational lefties and even situational righties, comparing their R/L splits and comparative ratings. Plus, I want a long guy with more stamina who can mop up and start in an emergency. Preferably at least one ground ball pitcher. And ideally a combination of guys with great stuff, lots of movement, excellent control, so I can match them to a specific need.

Kushiel · 05-11-2022, 02:55 PM

I just call down to the Bullpen and ask, "Is anybody awake down there?"

84Cubs · 08-04-2022, 10:00 PM

Are the stats IRS%, SD (Shutdown), MD (Meltdown) and WPA useful for relievers?

billyray1984 · 08-05-2022, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84Cubs

Are the stats IRS%, SD (Shutdown), MD (Meltdown) and WPA useful for relievers?

In large sample sizes, yes. Year to year, no.

billyray1984 · 08-05-2022, 10:07 AM

K%-BB%, FIP, HR/9, BABIP. Not a stat but option years/arbitration status are vital to me in relievers since I will generally not put a guy at closer unless he is on a fixed contract to avoid arb ballooning.

HR/9 I'll try to evaluate on a large enough sample size (multiple years). BABIP can help evaluate if the pitcher was lucky or unlucky.

For closer/setup/main middle reliever, I'll give ERA+ a quick look. I'll also look at splits. For long relief, unless it's a young guy than can make it into the rotation in the future, I mainly only care about IP and FIP. If those are good, generally the guy will perform well and eat some innings.

More important than which stat to look at though is to try to look at a large enough sample size.

05-10-2022, 07:35 PM	#1
Anteater Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2022 Location: Florida Posts: 132	Evaluate Relief Pitchers Which stats do you use to evaluate relief pitchers and are those stats different from what you use for starting pitchers?

05-10-2022, 08:04 PM	#3
SirSaab Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 283	FIP, K/9, BB/9, AVG. I mostly evaluate SP the same, but also look at BABIP and fWAR as well. I’m particularly interested in BB/9 for relievers, and find it very important because often relievers will have a low control rating. I want to see if that plays in-game, or if the subject actually demonstrates better control than his rating suggests. __________________ “Lady, I’m not an athlete. I’m a professional baseball player.” - John Kruk

05-10-2022, 10:10 PM	#4
Curve Ball Dave Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,393	If I'm evaluating the performance of a reliever I look at one thing; did he hold a lead or keep the team in the game so we had a chance to win or didn't he? It's that simple. I don't bother with cumulative stats, one bad game to throw everything out of kilter. I study the game logs, I look at how many games he's been in versus how many times he's been scored on. I look at blown holds and saves, I look at inherited runners scored. I frankly couldn't care less what his K rate is if in between strike outs he's giving up hits that cost my team the game at a rate I deem unacceptable. I just unloaded my closer. He wasn't blowing small leads, instead he was blowing big leads and he had done it enough times that I had enough. I traded him straight up for another team's closer who, after looking at his game logs, has been much more consistent when it comes to preventing runs, especially in droves like the bum I traded. I don't overthink things. The ultimate stat is the team's W/L record, that's all that matters. __________________ "Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing"-Warren Spahn.

05-11-2022, 02:55 PM	#9
Kushiel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas Posts: 1,810	I just call down to the Bullpen and ask, "Is anybody awake down there?" __________________ *Favente Deo supero*

05-10-2022, 07:42 PM	#2
Hooray Saturday Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 257	K/9, BB/9, HR/9, no.

05-10-2022, 11:06 PM	#5
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,141	I wish as far as overall/potential ratings go....they'd adjust RP to be in line with how they are actually valued, and not artificially inflated.

05-11-2022, 07:39 AM	#7
MathBandit All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 1,448	Couldn't care less about Holds, Saves, Blown Saves, Wins, Losses, or anything else like that. ERA is also useless for relievers to me. K%, B%, K%-BB%, and HR/9 are the main stats I look at for relievers specifically. I'll keep tabs on IRS% to see if at any point I think it provides more signal than noise. I also do keep WPA on my main pitching screen not necessarily as a judge of my relievers, but as a way to judge that the pitchers are being used properly.

05-11-2022, 02:50 PM	#8
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 3,215	I agree with the posts emphasizing analytics, and a deep dive into game-by-game performance is worth doing, too. I also look at the role I want a RP to fill. For closers, for example, stamina doesn’t matter, HR/9 and BB/9 are critical. I don’t crave K/9 like some, because a ground ball can yield two outs. I’m big on matchups, and look for situational lefties and even situational righties, comparing their R/L splits and comparative ratings. Plus, I want a long guy with more stamina who can mop up and start in an emergency. Preferably at least one ground ball pitcher. And ideally a combination of guys with great stuff, lots of movement, excellent control, so I can match them to a specific need.

08-04-2022, 10:00 PM	#10
84Cubs Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: 1060 w Addison st Posts: 270	Are the stats IRS%, SD (Shutdown), MD (Meltdown) and WPA useful for relievers?

08-05-2022, 10:07 AM	#12
billyray1984 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 216	K%-BB%, FIP, HR/9, BABIP. Not a stat but option years/arbitration status are vital to me in relievers since I will generally not put a guy at closer unless he is on a fixed contract to avoid arb ballooning. HR/9 I'll try to evaluate on a large enough sample size (multiple years). BABIP can help evaluate if the pitcher was lucky or unlucky. For closer/setup/main middle reliever, I'll give ERA+ a quick look. I'll also look at splits. For long relief, unless it's a young guy than can make it into the rotation in the future, I mainly only care about IP and FIP. If those are good, generally the guy will perform well and eat some innings. More important than which stat to look at though is to try to look at a large enough sample size.