How can Chris Davis retire and still get paid?

Brad K · 08-12-2021, 05:47 PM

How does this work?

Yea, he has a contract but isn't his part of it to show up for work?

pgjocki · 08-12-2021, 06:45 PM

In game or RL?

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RchW · 08-12-2021, 06:54 PM

Because he is injured and doesn't have to retire. He's choosing to retire likely after discussions with the Orioles regarding the money owed. If the Orioles balked he simply would have remained injured and would have been paid. Much of his contract was deferred. My understanding is something like $54M over 16 years is the deal.

Edit

The Orioles may have insured part of the contract so it may be that they don't actually owe the whole amount.

Izz · 08-12-2021, 07:48 PM

Guy's gonna be getting paid until something like 2035...

Brad K · 08-12-2021, 11:11 PM

Seems to me he should have retired after a couple years of negative WAR and not expected any more pay.

rudel.dietrich · 08-13-2021, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

Seems to me he should have retired after a couple years of negative WAR and not expected any more pay.

I don't think you have a firm understanding of how contracts work

rudel.dietrich · 08-13-2021, 12:31 AM

And I am guessing that him and his agent negotiated with Baltimore a buyout and then after that had been signed he announced retirement.

This lets Baltimore defer his salary, likely recoup much of it back via insurance, and also frees up a roster spot.

And also keeps others players around the league from thinking Baltimore treats it's players poorly.

Brad K · 08-13-2021, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

I don't think you have a firm understanding of how contracts work

Maybe not. Have to wonder though, what kind of guy would want to continue playing setting negative records.

rudel.dietrich · 08-13-2021, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

Maybe not. Have to wonder though, what kind of guy would want to continue playing setting negative records.

I don’t think he did, thus why he choose to retire.
And I am sure his level of success he enjoyed pre injury is something you have never come close to matching at anything you have ever tried to attempt. So you would have trouble understanding that as well.

ezpkns34 · 08-13-2021, 12:36 PM

hall of famer at the bank

Westheim · 08-13-2021, 01:15 PM

So how would we rate the settlement? Four out of five Bobby Bonillas?

swoboda · 08-13-2021, 01:42 PM

Chris is keeping what the O's agreed to pay him in spite of his several yr drop off in production down to the level where probably could not have secured an MLB roster spot.

Gil Meche was apparently one of a kind:

https://www.tampabay.com/archive/201...om-12-million/

thehef · 08-13-2021, 02:47 PM

I'm sure Davis didn't want to continue playing ineptly. He wanted to retire. But he also didn't want to walk away from guaranteed money. Sure, it can be seen as a bit unethical to take large sums of money for either not playing well at all (happens ALL the time; Andruw Jones on the Dodgers was just one example), or not playing at all, but that is the nature of the business.

Davis had all the leverage here because he knew that the O's were contractually obligated to pay him. IOW, he didn't have to retire. He could've stuck around, forced the O's to demote him or put him on some inactive list where he still gets paid. From the O's perspective, reaching an agreement where the money is deferred makes sense for them, given the alternative.

Players can take a hard line on these types of financial things and while they may pay a small price in popularity, there's no real risk. Teams, however, can't really take a hard line because it will hurt future recruiting. The athletes have all the leverage here.

(Different story in the NFL, where few contracts are fully guaranteed.)

Brad K · 08-13-2021, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

I don’t think he did, thus why he choose to retire.
And I am sure his level of success he enjoyed pre injury is something you have never come close to matching at anything you have ever tried to attempt. So you would have trouble understanding that as well.

The assumption here is that you have. Why would you assume I haven't?

dkgo · 08-13-2021, 07:16 PM

The Orioles were more than happy to pay Machado the league minimum when he put up 6 WAR in 2013.

Until a team decides to pay a player extra after a season based on what they deserve then I won't blame a player for taking what they didn't deserve.

rudel.dietrich · 08-13-2021, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

The assumption here is that you have. Why would you assume I haven't?

Oh, I have not either. And I also never created a thread questioning this athlete either

RchW · 08-13-2021, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehef

I'm sure Davis didn't want to continue playing ineptly. He wanted to retire. But he also didn't want to walk away from guaranteed money. Sure, it can be seen as a bit unethical to take large sums of money for either not playing well at all (happens ALL the time; Andruw Jones on the Dodgers was just one example), or not playing at all, but that is the nature of the business.

Davis had all the leverage here because he knew that the O's were contractually obligated to pay him. IOW, he didn't have to retire. He could've stuck around, forced the O's to demote him or put him on some inactive list where he still gets paid. From the O's perspective, reaching an agreement where the money is deferred makes sense for them, given the alternative.

Players can take a hard line on these types of financial things and while they may pay a small price in popularity, there's no real risk. Teams, however, can't really take a hard line because it will hurt future recruiting. The athletes have all the leverage here.

(Different story in the NFL, where few contracts are fully guaranteed.)

Guaranteed contracts are the norm in professional sports. The NFL is the exception due to a very weak players union but even then big time players get guaranteed money.

It should also be noted that executive salaries in almost all sports are guaranteed. I've never heard of an executive being asked to turn down or give back money based on performance issues.

thehef · 08-13-2021, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Guaranteed contracts are the norm in professional sports. The NFL is the exception due to a very weak players union but even then big time players get guaranteed money.

We hear a lot of whining about this from NFL players, but in the end, it's up to players and agents to negotiate for deals that include guaranteed money.

When we hear of, say, an NFL player who has just signed a 5-year, $80 million dollar contract, with 2 years (at $20m each) guaranteed and then some sort of team buyout option, what they really settled for was a 2-year, $40m deal, with three team-option years. Not much different that MLB or NBA.

Sure, a weak players' union might be part of it, but if the players want more guaranteed money, then they (their agents) should start negotiating for it, and stop signing deals that include so much non-guaranteed money.

Easier said than done, I'll admit. The owners surely like a system that doesn't cause them to pay nearly as much money for nuthin' as their NBA and MLB counterparts so often do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

It should also be noted that executive salaries in almost all sports are guaranteed. I've never heard of an executive being asked to turn down or give back money based on performance issues.

Sure. But in the grand scheme of things, we're talking about a small number of execs, and if you include more front office employees, you're getting down to those making chump change. Plus, there's no salary cap hit when you have to pay a poor-performing exec to go away. Having to pay a poor-performing player can cripple a franchise, or at least make their roster-building more difficult.

dkgo · 08-13-2021, 10:53 PM

NFL contracts can be whatever the agent and team agree upon. It's not because the players union is weak. Several have signed fully guaranteed deals, but if every contract had to be guaranteed they would obviously be shorter and with lower AAV like all the guaranteed rookie deals are. Veterans would rather get much bigger up front signing bonuses by adding fake money and years to the end of the contract for salary cap manipulation.

GeoWar · 08-30-2021, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

The Orioles were more than happy to pay Machado the league minimum when he put up 6 WAR in 2013.

Until a team decides to pay a player extra after a season based on what they deserve then I won't blame a player for taking what they didn't deserve.

It is the collective bargaining agreement --- it allows teams to keep players in the minors for "X" years --- and then control them in the majors (with major league time ) for "X" years.

I have suggested before that Major League Baseball and not teams develop a Developmental system ...... Then teams can draft from this system (Have four minor league teams that they control players for two years - they must sign to major league contract at that time or they go back into a pool to be redrafted......

Kris Byrant had this problem - Alex Gordon had this problem with Kansas City

My example of a player held back is from 60's - Mike Epstein with Baltimore . They brought him up for a September tryout in 1966 --- but he played firstbase and Baltimore had Boog Powell -- they wanted to demote him to minors - he said NO he would quit and go home --- They traded him to Washington. (helped Washington to only plus .500 season before they left Washington and moved to Texas **** Epstein's attutude and demand to play rubbed some managers,

08-12-2021, 05:47 PM	#1
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,606 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	How can Chris Davis retire and still get paid? How does this work? Yea, he has a contract but isn't his part of it to show up for work? __________________ . Pirates Play Moneyball 1951-2008 Ratings and League Totals Modifiers Settings and Auto-calc

08-12-2021, 06:45 PM	#2
pgjocki All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Maryland - just outside DC Posts: 1,581	In game or RL? Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk __________________ - - - World Series championships: 1926, 1931, 1934, 1942, 1944, 1946, 1964, 1967, 1982, 2006, 2011

08-12-2021, 06:54 PM	#3
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	Because he is injured and doesn't have to retire. He's choosing to retire likely after discussions with the Orioles regarding the money owed. If the Orioles balked he simply would have remained injured and would have been paid. Much of his contract was deferred. My understanding is something like $54M over 16 years is the deal. Edit The Orioles may have insured part of the contract so it may be that they don't actually owe the whole amount. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit Last edited by RchW; 08-12-2021 at 06:58 PM.

08-12-2021, 07:48 PM	#4
Izz Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,469	Guy's gonna be getting paid until something like 2035... __________________ Not only do I play OOTP but I also write science-fiction: My Website A brief history of the Australia-New Zealand Baseball League (AUNZBL 2019-2119)--A Dynasty Report The National Penterham Four-Bases Association--A Dynasty Report

08-12-2021, 11:11 PM	#5
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,606 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	Seems to me he should have retired after a couple years of negative WAR and not expected any more pay. __________________ . Pirates Play Moneyball 1951-2008 Ratings and League Totals Modifiers Settings and Auto-calc

08-13-2021, 12:31 AM	#7
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	And I am guessing that him and his agent negotiated with Baltimore a buyout and then after that had been signed he announced retirement. This lets Baltimore defer his salary, likely recoup much of it back via insurance, and also frees up a roster spot. And also keeps others players around the league from thinking Baltimore treats it's players poorly.

08-13-2021, 12:36 PM	#10
ezpkns34 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 703	hall of famer at the bank

08-13-2021, 01:15 PM	#11
Westheim Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 13,204	So how would we rate the settlement? Four out of five Bobby Bonillas? __________________ Portland Raccoons, 90 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 * 2061 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA \| RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.

08-13-2021, 01:42 PM	#12
swoboda All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Guarding The Line Posts: 1,220	Chris is keeping what the O's agreed to pay him in spite of his several yr drop off in production down to the level where probably could not have secured an MLB roster spot. Gil Meche was apparently one of a kind: https://www.tampabay.com/archive/201...om-12-million/ __________________ "...If you want to look ahead to the bottom of the ninth, the Mets will be sending up Buddy Harrelson, Jerry Buchek , and Don Bosch, we'll be right back after this word from Rheingold Beer" The late great Lindsey Nelson

08-13-2021, 02:47 PM	#13
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,345	I'm sure Davis didn't want to continue playing ineptly. He wanted to retire. But he also didn't want to walk away from guaranteed money. Sure, it can be seen as a bit unethical to take large sums of money for either not playing well at all (happens ALL the time; Andruw Jones on the Dodgers was just one example), or not playing at all, but that is the nature of the business. Davis had all the leverage here because he knew that the O's were contractually obligated to pay him. IOW, he didn't have to retire. He could've stuck around, forced the O's to demote him or put him on some inactive list where he still gets paid. From the O's perspective, reaching an agreement where the money is deferred makes sense for them, given the alternative. Players can take a hard line on these types of financial things and while they may pay a small price in popularity, there's no real risk. Teams, however, can't really take a hard line because it will hurt future recruiting. The athletes have all the leverage here. (Different story in the NFL, where few contracts are fully guaranteed.)

08-13-2021, 07:16 PM	#15
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	The Orioles were more than happy to pay Machado the league minimum when he put up 6 WAR in 2013. Until a team decides to pay a player extra after a season based on what they deserve then I won't blame a player for taking what they didn't deserve.

08-13-2021, 10:53 PM	#19
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	NFL contracts can be whatever the agent and team agree upon. It's not because the players union is weak. Several have signed fully guaranteed deals, but if every contract had to be guaranteed they would obviously be shorter and with lower AAV like all the guaranteed rookie deals are. Veterans would rather get much bigger up front signing bonuses by adding fake money and years to the end of the contract for salary cap manipulation.