Which is More challenging/engrossing?

PSUColonel · 08-09-2021, 09:11 PM

I finally have my 2021 league set up and ready to go…now I must decide if I want to GM, or GM AND manage. Which do people feel is more realistic? Which is more engrossing? Does anyone feel managing somehow gives you an inherent advantage over the AI?

pgjocki · 08-09-2021, 11:54 PM

It depends on if you "game" the AI when managing. Do you take pitches to drive up the opposing pitchers pitch count? Do you double steal even when you have a slow runner on 2B? Do you have warm up pitchers turned off?

Those are just a few things you can do as a manager to give yourself an edge. However it doesn't guarantee a win - I know from experience - but it can be useful. Also I firmly believe a human can protect a bullpen better than the AI and have the ability to think about the next game and who you can call up for depth.

Lastly, the AI still puts far to many good players on waivers during the season and fails to protect legitimate future stars in the Rule 5 draft.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

PSUColonel · 08-10-2021, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgjocki

It depends on if you "game" the AI when managing. Do you take pitches to drive up the opposing pitchers pitch count? Do you double steal even when you have a slow runner on 2B? Do you have warm up pitchers turned off?

Those are just a few things you can do as a manager to give yourself an edge. However it doesn't guarantee a win - I know from experience - but it can be useful. Also I firmly believe a human can protect a bullpen better than the AI and have the ability to think about the next game and who you can call up for depth.

Lastly, the AI still puts far to many good players on waivers during the season and fails to protect legitimate future stars in the Rule 5 draft.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Let's put it this way...I will do whatever options are available to me. So, if I can take pitches in order to get favorable counts...I certainly will. Will I do it to drive up a pitch count?...absolutely. Like I said, if the option is available to me, I'll do it. I am not one for house rules. Those are loopholes I feel the developers will have to address if it's an issue.

I also don't warm up pitchers simply because the AI does not. So, again I believe it playing against the AI with the same rules, and not artificially handicapping myself.

Hrycaj · 08-10-2021, 09:11 AM

Well if you are shooting for a more realistic experience it would to be either the GM or manager only. Doing both is not realistic in 2021. Both offer interesting challenges. As a manager only you have to deal with the AI making crazy decisions for your team. With GM only you have to really trust your ai manager.

RchW · 08-10-2021, 09:58 AM

I'm interested in justifiably realistic stat output first. I'm a multi-tasker (sounds better than control freak), second. Third, it's my fantasy world, so I manage and GM and have for hundreds of seasons. YMMV.

PSUColonel · 08-10-2021, 10:22 AM

I think I’m going to go as just the GM…but what does concern me is boredom and complacency if I don’t have enough to do, or don’t feel engaged on a micro-level.

progen · 08-10-2021, 10:27 AM

Anymore, I never use the Rule V draft. As mentioned, too many good, young players made available by the AI. I do play as GM and Manager, because I found that with GM only, it can get a bit boring as the season rolls on.

PSUColonel · 08-10-2021, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by progen

Anymore, I never use the Rule V draft. As mentioned, too many good, young players made available by the AI. I do play as GM and Manager, because I found that with GM only, it can get a bit boring as the season rolls on.

I was under the rule V draft had been vastly improved. Are you seeing something different?

victory1 · 08-10-2021, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by progen

Anymore, I never use the Rule V draft. As mentioned, too many good, young players made available by the AI. I do play as GM and Manager, because I found that with GM only, it can get a bit boring as the season rolls on.

if you think the rule five draft is bad, definitely don't look at the waiver wire lol

RchW · 08-10-2021, 01:12 PM

Maybe it is fictional leagues or maybe roster settings but I get little to nothing from both rule 5 and waivers. I'd hate for an inexperienced OOTP player to be influenced reading this thread without playing several seasons themselves.

PSUColonel · 08-10-2021, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Maybe it is fictional leagues or maybe roster settings but I get little to nothing from both rule 5 and waivers. I'd hate for an inexperienced OOTP player to be influenced reading this thread without playing several seasons themselves.

agreed

BBGiovanni · 08-10-2021, 02:14 PM

I think it mostly depends on what you want to do. Do you want immersion in one team/season and to get to know the players really well? That sounds like managing to me.

If you really want to dive into the draft, player development, and the long game, you'd probably want the robot manager deciding whether or not to tell the pitcher to stand like a statue at the plate with the bases loaded and no outs and so on.

I don't notice a huge advantage in managing, but (1) taking pitches doesn't have a magical effect for me, at least no more than what the Giants and Rays and so on do IRL and (2) what advantage I do see has to do with pitchers and fatigue. I probably don't have settings optimized for simming but I don't ever agree with the AI's use of my bullpen/starters.

Anyway I think that's subsidiary to what you enjoy in the game.

BirdWatcher · 08-10-2021, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Maybe it is fictional leagues or maybe roster settings but I get little to nothing from both rule 5 and waivers. I'd hate for an inexperienced OOTP player to be influenced reading this thread without playing several seasons themselves.

Also agreed.
Granted, in my fictional league I do get the occasional useful player from the Rule 5 draft or off waivers, but in my estimation certainly no more so than what happens in actual real-life MLB.

But more to the point of my agreement with you is that I always cringe when I see any generalizations made here about how the game operates, or doesn't operate. With the vast permutations of ways to play this game, varying settings options, types of league setups, etc., very few generalizations hold up well to close scrutiny or at least extend much beyond the specific parameters of any individual save.

NoOne · 08-10-2021, 09:52 PM

sometimes i'm gm and manager, but more so lately i make a mini-me manager. set his strategy etc.. gm-legacy mode enabled so i can ensure lineups and pitching staff is set up as i want it to be. overlap iterations a bit so they build some reputation in minors while the previous decides to retire.

i think it definitely is an advantage over the AI. Although many contexts may not be. Sometimes the decisions are fairly obvious within the realm of rational choices and the differences are negligible. In the end we can make better choices with fielder musical chairs and lineups when it is more complicated. the ai isn't doing anything too intricate. anything requiring multiple days of planning or more.. odd ways to eke out more from your offensive catcher or whatever, timing their days off to account for existing days off in schedule... etc..

our trading abilities, our forward planning (well, some...)... i don't just have a yearly plan.. i may look 3-5-10 years out, whatever is relevant. delayed gratification for greater and longer riches that can snowball into a perpetual motion of talent good enough to win it all every year. the ai can't do that.

haha, running up pitch counts.. by that third game you absolutely murder them. 4 game series? bwahaha! Not quite as effective in playoffs with more days off. Still helps a good amount that 2nd game, but that third you can see fielders pitching out there if you got a good offensive team and have a good series start to finish.. Bet a ~.500 give or take team can go .600-.666 employing that strategy.

I do things with the financials tht makes for bad budget projections by the ai.. they are often off by huge portions of my gate revenue. Although i haven't micromanaged that recently.. might be different now. anyway, i wasn't leaving tens of millions on table just cause the app can't 'do math good.' Don't try to maximize season ticket sales with stellar teams.. those are the cheapest tickets compared to what you can sell in a good season... maximize what you can sell t a higher price, not the lower price in offseason...if i recall 25% or so was sweet spot? maybe 33% season ticket sales. hey if it doesn't impact actual ticket sales per game, should price it so high none are bought. you got a stellar team? do this. keep raising the price as long as you mintain nar 100% attendance.. a few percent off is no big deal, possibly a good thing. The point is you will be selling a greater portion of total at a higher ticket price... in extreme cases with a 50k stadium and 120win type team or better... 220m? 250m? just from gate. pushing 350-450m rev depending on market. once you get there, you can stay there with good planning and that much money. AI definitely cant figure that out :P

any bad season, try to maximize season ticket sales, as you will only lose more revenue with lower ticket prices later as you play badly. being familiar with a general attendance figure to hit reltive to incompetence of team... how far that price is likely to drop from opening dy etc.. i don't know that stuff, lol

squeeze it for all it is worth and then some. demoralize that game! wreck it like a $2 h%#$ #$% @#$% %$# <technical diffiulties... > it's got no chance.

Worse comes to worst... learn how to use a hexeditor, LOL

PSUColonel · 08-10-2021, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBGiovanni

I think it mostly depends on what you want to do. Do you want immersion in one team/season and to get to know the players really well? That sounds like managing to me.

If you really want to dive into the draft, player development, and the long game, you'd probably want the robot manager deciding whether or not to tell the pitcher to stand like a statue at the plate with the bases loaded and no outs and so on.

I don't notice a huge advantage in managing, but (1) taking pitches doesn't have a magical effect for me, at least no more than what the Giants and Rays and so on do IRL and (2) what advantage I do see has to do with pitchers and fatigue. I probably don't have settings optimized for simming but I don't ever agree with the AI's use of my bullpen/starters.

Anyway I think that's subsidiary to what you enjoy in the game.

I am looking for detailed immersion in a (hopefully) long term save. I like the nuances of knowing the league in intimate detail and going along at a slower day to day pace.

This is why I’m asking this question…I want realism at a slow detailed pace…but am a bit worried I could grow bored if I don’t have a lot to do. This was going to be a full world save with most all of the leagues….but after what I saw how the Independent leagues interact with MLB (mentioned in another thread) I decided to just go with A strictly MLB & MiLB save.

BBGiovanni · 08-11-2021, 01:45 AM

You sound like a manager/GM to me!

RchW · 08-11-2021, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBGiovanni

You sound like a manager/GM to me!

Yep. I'm in ST and my amateur draft is one day away March 15 and I manually type in calculated LTM. Lot's to do.

Sweed · 08-11-2021, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Maybe it is fictional leagues or maybe roster settings but I get little to nothing from both rule 5 and waivers. I'd hate for an inexperienced OOTP player to be influenced reading this thread without playing several seasons themselves.

Yes and yes on rule 5 and waivers. Waivers will see more talent than rule 5 for me. Neither is putting out players that "should never be there". When there is an "iffy" player and I dig into the "why this player is on waivers" I can usually see the AI's reasoning. Sometimes, like real life, it comes down to an either or for the AI same as it does for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

Also agreed.
Granted, in my fictional league I do get the occasional useful player from the Rule 5 draft or off waivers, but in my estimation certainly no more so than what happens in actual real-life MLB.

But more to the point of my agreement with you is that I always cringe when I see any generalizations made here about how the game operates, or doesn't operate. With the vast permutations of ways to play this game, varying settings options, types of league setups, etc., very few generalizations hold up well to close scrutiny or at least extend much beyond the specific parameters of any individual save.

I could bold this whole post as I agree with it all. Most important though is how these generalizations propagate and become "facts"

. Kind of reminds me of today's political social media

PSUColonel · 08-11-2021, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweed

Yes and yes on rule 5 and waivers. Waivers will see more talent than rule 5 for me. Neither is putting out players that "should never be there". When there is an "iffy" player and I dig into the "why this player is on waivers" I can usually see the AI's reasoning. Sometimes, like real life, it comes down to an either or for the AI same as it does for me.

I could bold this whole post as I agree with it all. Most important though is how these generalizations propagate and become "facts"

. Kind of reminds me of today's political social media

Thanks button needed here

PSUColonel · 11-01-2021, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Maybe it is fictional leagues or maybe roster settings but I get little to nothing from both rule 5 and waivers. I'd hate for an inexperienced OOTP player to be influenced reading this thread without playing several seasons themselves.

I. am wondering what their AI evaluation might be??

08-09-2021, 09:11 PM	#1
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,108	Which is More challenging/engrossing? I finally have my 2021 league set up and ready to go…now I must decide if I want to GM, or GM AND manage. Which do people feel is more realistic? Which is more engrossing? Does anyone feel managing somehow gives you an inherent advantage over the AI?

08-09-2021, 11:54 PM	#2
pgjocki All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Maryland - just outside DC Posts: 1,596	It depends on if you "game" the AI when managing. Do you take pitches to drive up the opposing pitchers pitch count? Do you double steal even when you have a slow runner on 2B? Do you have warm up pitchers turned off? Those are just a few things you can do as a manager to give yourself an edge. However it doesn't guarantee a win - I know from experience - but it can be useful. Also I firmly believe a human can protect a bullpen better than the AI and have the ability to think about the next game and who you can call up for depth. Lastly, the AI still puts far to many good players on waivers during the season and fails to protect legitimate future stars in the Rule 5 draft. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk __________________ - - - World Series championships: 1926, 1931, 1934, 1942, 1944, 1946, 1964, 1967, 1982, 2006, 2011

08-10-2021, 09:11 AM	#4
Hrycaj All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,719	Well if you are shooting for a more realistic experience it would to be either the GM or manager only. Doing both is not realistic in 2021. Both offer interesting challenges. As a manager only you have to deal with the AI making crazy decisions for your team. With GM only you have to really trust your ai manager. __________________ Click on my signature to read about the great game of baseball in Normington. Last edited by Hrycaj; 08-10-2021 at 09:27 AM.

08-10-2021, 09:58 AM	#5
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	I'm interested in justifiably realistic stat output first. I'm a multi-tasker (sounds better than control freak), second. Third, it's my fantasy world, so I manage and GM and have for hundreds of seasons. YMMV. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

08-10-2021, 01:12 PM	#10
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	Maybe it is fictional leagues or maybe roster settings but I get little to nothing from both rule 5 and waivers. I'd hate for an inexperienced OOTP player to be influenced reading this thread without playing several seasons themselves. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

08-10-2021, 10:22 AM	#6
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,108	I think I’m going to go as just the GM…but what does concern me is boredom and complacency if I don’t have enough to do, or don’t feel engaged on a micro-level.

08-10-2021, 10:27 AM	#7
progen All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,530 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Anymore, I never use the Rule V draft. As mentioned, too many good, young players made available by the AI. I do play as GM and Manager, because I found that with GM only, it can get a bit boring as the season rolls on.

08-10-2021, 02:14 PM	#12
BBGiovanni All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Republic of California Posts: 1,910	I think it mostly depends on what you want to do. Do you want immersion in one team/season and to get to know the players really well? That sounds like managing to me. If you really want to dive into the draft, player development, and the long game, you'd probably want the robot manager deciding whether or not to tell the pitcher to stand like a statue at the plate with the bases loaded and no outs and so on. I don't notice a huge advantage in managing, but (1) taking pitches doesn't have a magical effect for me, at least no more than what the Giants and Rays and so on do IRL and (2) what advantage I do see has to do with pitchers and fatigue. I probably don't have settings optimized for simming but I don't ever agree with the AI's use of my bullpen/starters. Anyway I think that's subsidiary to what you enjoy in the game. __________________ Let's Go (San Jose) Giants, Let's Go Mets! Current Project: WBAT/AABBA: Organized Base Ball And the "New Normal" World Baseball Aid Tournament 2023 trophy round underway!

08-10-2021, 09:52 PM	#14
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	sometimes i'm gm and manager, but more so lately i make a mini-me manager. set his strategy etc.. gm-legacy mode enabled so i can ensure lineups and pitching staff is set up as i want it to be. overlap iterations a bit so they build some reputation in minors while the previous decides to retire. i think it definitely is an advantage over the AI. Although many contexts may not be. Sometimes the decisions are fairly obvious within the realm of rational choices and the differences are negligible. In the end we can make better choices with fielder musical chairs and lineups when it is more complicated. the ai isn't doing anything too intricate. anything requiring multiple days of planning or more.. odd ways to eke out more from your offensive catcher or whatever, timing their days off to account for existing days off in schedule... etc.. our trading abilities, our forward planning (well, some...)... i don't just have a yearly plan.. i may look 3-5-10 years out, whatever is relevant. delayed gratification for greater and longer riches that can snowball into a perpetual motion of talent good enough to win it all every year. the ai can't do that. haha, running up pitch counts.. by that third game you absolutely murder them. 4 game series? bwahaha! Not quite as effective in playoffs with more days off. Still helps a good amount that 2nd game, but that third you can see fielders pitching out there if you got a good offensive team and have a good series start to finish.. Bet a ~.500 give or take team can go .600-.666 employing that strategy. I do things with the financials tht makes for bad budget projections by the ai.. they are often off by huge portions of my gate revenue. Although i haven't micromanaged that recently.. might be different now. anyway, i wasn't leaving tens of millions on table just cause the app can't 'do math good.' Don't try to maximize season ticket sales with stellar teams.. those are the cheapest tickets compared to what you can sell in a good season... maximize what you can sell t a higher price, not the lower price in offseason...if i recall 25% or so was sweet spot? maybe 33% season ticket sales. hey if it doesn't impact actual ticket sales per game, should price it so high none are bought. you got a stellar team? do this. keep raising the price as long as you mintain nar 100% attendance.. a few percent off is no big deal, possibly a good thing. The point is you will be selling a greater portion of total at a higher ticket price... in extreme cases with a 50k stadium and 120win type team or better... 220m? 250m? just from gate. pushing 350-450m rev depending on market. once you get there, you can stay there with good planning and that much money. AI definitely cant figure that out :P any bad season, try to maximize season ticket sales, as you will only lose more revenue with lower ticket prices later as you play badly. being familiar with a general attendance figure to hit reltive to incompetence of team... how far that price is likely to drop from opening dy etc.. i don't know that stuff, lol squeeze it for all it is worth and then some. demoralize that game! wreck it like a $2 h%#$ #$% @#$% %$# <technical diffiulties... > it's got no chance. Worse comes to worst... learn how to use a hexeditor, LOL

08-11-2021, 01:45 AM	#16
BBGiovanni All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Republic of California Posts: 1,910	You sound like a manager/GM to me! __________________ Let's Go (San Jose) Giants, Let's Go Mets! Current Project: WBAT/AABBA: Organized Base Ball And the "New Normal" World Baseball Aid Tournament 2023 trophy round underway!