Do you use house rules for trades?

robc · 04-13-2021, 11:38 AM

I think I may have inadvertently made the game too easy. I had the trade difficulty set 3 notches above the default middle setting. Initially, the AI had turned down some lopsided trades, but still have been able to acquire some very good players by offering a couple good young players. Most of them are performing well for their team, but I think I got the better of the deal. In 1978 so far I’ve traded for Cecil Cooper, Dave Winfield, Gary Carter, Jeff Burroughs.

I have recalc off, ootp development on, scouting on - so players can deviate from their historical performance. I turned off current ratings, but have potential ratings visible on a 20-80 scale.

The only house rule I have been using is that I must trade an even number of players.

I did test out the trade difficulty set at maximum, but that seemed unreasonably restrictive. My goal is to try and get some combination of trade difficulty setting and house rules that allow me to make reasonable trades but not let me assemble a power house team in a year.

What trade settings and house rules do you use to keep trades reasonable?

AirmenSmith · 04-13-2021, 12:06 PM

Before OOTP22 I would leave the trading set to default normal. Now I have it one notch below hard and find it to actually be fairly reasonable so I don't use house rules anymore.

I use to use house rules for contracts a lot. I would offer a 3 year deal, with the last two being team options, to a player with no intention of keeping him past 1 year. I would load up the option years so he would sign. I stopped doing that.

kidd_05_u2 · 04-13-2021, 02:04 PM

House rules on trades and free agent signings are a must if you want to keep the solo game challenging. No matter how far up you move the slider, you can always find the AI glitching to overrate a terrible minor league player from time to time. Having the setting from hard to hardest is good in general, but trades have to be evaluated in their own right.

My house rules:
Only pursue major leaguers who are on the trading block, unless I'm willing to offer a really good prospect (this is really important to avoid the temptation of trading too frequently)
Never use the "make this work now" button because that's how you find the players the AI is terribly overrating
What I offer has to match the needs of the other team

With free agents, I think it is important to make an effort to keep signigns limited to a given number because you can always find several average players willing to sign for less than 3mn. Even playing as the Marlins, you can overhaul the entire roster in only one free agency window while keeping within the budget if you really wanted to.

Brad K · 04-14-2021, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidd_05_u2

Never use the "make this work now" button because that's how you find the players the AI is terribly overrating

That's a great idea. I think I'm going to use it.

Dorfmann · 04-14-2021, 10:42 AM

Nothing specific, but if the trade seems unfair, I'm not doing it.

tward13 · 04-14-2021, 11:06 AM

I have it set to Hard and I still don't make certain deals. For example, I moved Betances for a MI I could put in AAA and a low level RP prospect.

I passed on Altuve and Bauer

ineedplayerpics · 04-14-2021, 01:18 PM

The game can be funny at times. The Padres massively overvalued one of my lesser prospects and were willing to trade me Snell and others for him. In Reality I would win this trade by a mile; however, my assistant GM advised me not to take the deal ��

robc · 04-14-2021, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidd_05_u2

Never use the "make this work now" button because that's how you find the players the AI is terribly overrating

Yeah, i should probably never use it. I've only used it occasionally to 'top off' a trade I needed a player for.

eas9898 · 04-14-2021, 02:27 PM

Another situation where we have to adjust settings to work around the weak AI. Devs please, stop adding features and spend some energy focusing on AI. We would all appreciate it.

KBLover · 04-14-2021, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidd_05_u2

Never use the "make this work now" button because that's how you find the players the AI is terribly overrating
What I offer has to match the needs of the other team

I mean, I guess it depends on the league because when it asks for my 25 y/o ace SP with 3-years of 5+ WAR for a 28 y/o 60/80 reliever...I don't think my SP is being overrated.

I agree with the second statement - and it's usually the only way I can make headway.

With FAs...I guess I messed up the settings making my fictional league because average players want more than $3 M and they won't be turning around a 60-win kind of team.

kidd_05_u2 · 04-14-2021, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KBLover

I mean, I guess it depends on the league because when it asks for my 25 y/o ace SP with 3-years of 5+ WAR for a 28 y/o 60/80 reliever...I don't think my SP is being overrated.

To complete the trade for that all star shortstop the AI wants your MPV candidate with three more years of team control, the 19-year old with 70 potential that is a top five MLB prospect, or... that 20/20 25-year old pitcher that throws 89mph and had a 1.0 war season in High A the previous year.

For some reason the AI massively overrates certain non-prospects once you are at least one year into a save, and to make matters worse, all teams tend to massively overrate the same player. If you can restrain yourself from trading those overrated players for big but unrealistic returns, then the 'make this work now' button is fine I suppose.

oldfatbaldguy · 04-14-2021, 07:29 PM

I find that one of the great things about OOTP is that sometimes when you feel guilty about a trade, it turns out you didn't fleece that sucker after all. I've seen plenty of minor leaguers I agreed to add to trades because my scouts thought they were no-hopers turn out to be good major-leaguers.

But I find it's too easy to get something for a player you have no use for, even one you've DFAed and are fixin' to release. So I have a system of house rules. Hitting the high points:

I initiate trades only by floating players. I don't put a player on the trading block unless he requests a trade. I can only float each player once a year, using a calendar year that begins the day after the trading deadline. And I can't float a player for a full year after I've acquired him. (This doesn't apply to players I didn't acquire, who were already on the team when I took the job, which tends to make me a more active trader in my first year on the job. This feels realistic.) I never use "make this work now."

This doesn't mean I never trade a player I've acquired less than a year ago, but it means I only do that if the other team asks for him, either as part of an incoming trade offer or as part of the list attached to a NO WAY! message during negotiations.

There's more, but if you're not already bored, I should stop now.

I also use the "Very Hard" setting.

I have recently noticed that early in the first year of a fictional save, because there's no history, GMs who put a lot of weight on this year's stats are vulnerable. If a bad player has a hot start you can trade him for a much better player who is having a cold start. I haven't figured out what, if anything, I should do about that.

Doc_Giggle · 04-14-2021, 08:18 PM

In OOTP 22 with the difficulty slider at max difficulty, and one notch from the max of "favor prospects", I've found the trade AI to be extremely difficult. In contrast, during OOTP 21, I'd have to evaluate each trade and intentionally handicap myself not to rip off the AI even with it at set at "very hard". So if I'm actually capable of pulling off a trade with these settings, I'm pulling the trigger.

I calculated that each team in my fictional league does an average of 2.4 trades a year, so I limit myself to 3 trades a year max so that I'm not behaving in a way that's wildly different than the rest of the AI. Also the difference in number of players can be at most 1, so no 3-for-1 trades (but at the highest difficulty, adding in extra mid-tier talent doesn't really make the AI budge from its initial demands so it probably doesn't matter as much in this version).

andyhdz · 04-14-2021, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldfatbaldguy

I find that one of the great things about OOTP is that sometimes when you feel guilty about a trade, it turns out you didn't fleece that sucker after all. I've seen plenty of minor leaguers I agreed to add to trades because my scouts thought they were no-hopers turn out to be good major-leaguers.
.

Insert leonardo dicaprio pointing in once upon a time in hollywood meme here.

andyhdz · 04-14-2021, 11:01 PM

Trade AI has been improved greatly but it's also a topic that people on here will NEVER be satisfied with.

discodude5 · 04-14-2021, 11:47 PM

It's tricky because we all want to make our team better and trading does that. However we can quickly turn a fun challenging team into a boring powerhouse if we're not looking out for the ai teams.

I like to look at their depth around the players involved. They could be offering a solid 30 hr 1B for our #4 SP but they have a young 1B about to break out and our #4 SP would be #2 on their team. So maybe we win the trade quality wise but it could makes sense.
If they want to make the same trade but the SP isn't even going to be in the rotation I would look at actually seeing if our #3 SP would make more sense.
I try to not beat the ai in trades but help them make a trade that helps both of us.

This is prior to '22 and it sounds like from some of the replies here that it may be better.

Bobfather · 04-15-2021, 01:05 AM

[QUOTE=robc;4771297]I think I may have inadvertently made the game too easy. I had the trade difficulty set 3 notches above the default middle setting. Initially, the AI had turned down some lopsided trades, but still have been able to acquire some very good players by offering a couple good young players. Most of them are performing well for their team, but I think I got the better of the deal. In 1978 so far I’ve traded for Cecil Cooper, Dave Winfield, Gary Carter, Jeff Burroughs.

A question since I don't play historical. Could you have a bias about players since you know where their careers are headed and the AI is just looking at the current information? In other words, if Gary Carter was John Cisco (made up name)would you feel the same way about the trade? And you never mentioned what you gave up in these trades.

robc · 04-15-2021, 10:56 AM

[QUOTE=Bobfather;4772023]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robc

I think I may have inadvertently made the game too easy. I had the trade difficulty set 3 notches above the default middle setting. Initially, the AI had turned down some lopsided trades, but still have been able to acquire some very good players by offering a couple good young players. Most of them are performing well for their team, but I think I got the better of the deal. In 1978 so far I’ve traded for Cecil Cooper, Dave Winfield, Gary Carter, Jeff Burroughs.

A question since I don't play historical. Could you have a bias about players since you know where their careers are headed and the AI is just looking at the current information? In other words, if Gary Carter was John Cisco (made up name)would you feel the same way about the trade? And you never mentioned what you gave up in these trades.

Oh, I'm sure I have a bias, but since I'm not using recalc and am going off the same potential ratings the AI is I don't think it is a huge deal. If my scout rates them poorly, I wouldn't grab them because of their names. Now I guess it's possible the AI's scout don't rate them as highly as they should - but I can't verify that.

Here are the trades I did, ages is ( )

Traded away Reggie Jackson (31), Tim Lollar (22), and David Garcia (20) for Vida Blue (28) and Mike Glinatsis (23). I don't think this one was too bad. Reggie did perform well for them.

Traded Jerry Narron (22) , Catfish Hunter (32), Jim Beattie (23), Mark Thiel (24), Rex Hudler (17) + $110,000 cash for Steve Rogers (28), Fred Holdsworth (25), Bob Reese (27), Wayne Garrett (30), Del Unser (33). I definitely think I took the AI on this one. Jerry Narron and Jim Beattie are developing pretty well, but they are not top tier players. Steve Rogers is my number 2 pitcher and doing great. The rest are scrubs.

Traded Steve Balboni (21) and Garry Smith (22) for Dave Winfield (26) and Tom Tellman (24). Balboni is hitting a lot of HRs in the minors, but his contact is pretty low according to my scout (and probably real life). Garry Smith was a decent OF (in OOTP) with good speed. I robbed the AI here, but Winfield was on the trading block.

Traded Pat Tabler (20), Dennis Worth (25), Ed Figueroa (29), Chris Chambliss (29), Lou Pinella (34) for Cecil Cooper (28), Buck Martinez (29), Marshall Edwards (25), Ron Wrona (25), Larry Haney (35). This one I'm not sure about. Pat Tabler had great potential ratings and is now performing in the majors. Dennis Worth is a decent catcher, Ed Figueroa is on the decline, Chambliss is below average and Pinella can still hit. I wanted a good bat now, which is why I wanted Cooper. I didn't know how quickly Tabler would reach his potential, but he is doing great now.

Traded Mike Heath (23), Tommy Cruz (27), Ronald Luango (22) for Gary Carter (24), Rick Renick (34), Pat Creech (27). I think Gary Carter was on the trading block. Carters potentials are good but he hasn't been performing well. Cruz was a decent OH. The rest probably won't amount to much.

I don't think all the trades were bad for the AI and some were potentially good for both of us. I know its hard to judge without seeing the ratings. I do have the current ratings turned off and just go by potentials and their stats. I just want to make it as fair as I can without putting too many artificial restraints on myself.

Ratbelly · 04-16-2021, 02:55 PM

I find that on the hard setting in challenge mode, that there are some pretty realistic trades, but maybe that is me just sucking. I have not been able to fleece the CPU, but I have actually seen some good trades that helped both teams. I traded my underperforming injury riddled 4 star pitcher for a 4.9 WAR Shortstop thinking I had won that trade and I actually lost it. The pitcher turned around and went 15-3 and led the league in ERA and has stayed injury free for 2 years and my shortstop declined to a middle of the road guy offensively, although still good defensively.

I find the CPU not going after guys with bad contracts as well unless I eat a big portion and they usually don't offer much in return.

PSUColonel · 05-14-2021, 10:26 PM

I think the trading difficulty is fair on default to be honest. What makes it "unfair" (and I have never agreed with the implementation of these features) is the uses of both "shop player" and "make this work now".

These two features enable the human GM to manipulate the AI. It would be nice if perhaps in challenge mode these features were disabled...or perhaps the option to completely disable them in regular mode.

I have always felt the "trade block" serves as a way to shop players without being able to see all the players the AI values and doesn't value.

04-13-2021, 11:38 AM	#1
robc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,095	Do you use house rules for trades? I think I may have inadvertently made the game too easy. I had the trade difficulty set 3 notches above the default middle setting. Initially, the AI had turned down some lopsided trades, but still have been able to acquire some very good players by offering a couple good young players. Most of them are performing well for their team, but I think I got the better of the deal. In 1978 so far I’ve traded for Cecil Cooper, Dave Winfield, Gary Carter, Jeff Burroughs. I have recalc off, ootp development on, scouting on - so players can deviate from their historical performance. I turned off current ratings, but have potential ratings visible on a 20-80 scale. The only house rule I have been using is that I must trade an even number of players. I did test out the trade difficulty set at maximum, but that seemed unreasonably restrictive. My goal is to try and get some combination of trade difficulty setting and house rules that allow me to make reasonable trades but not let me assemble a power house team in a year. What trade settings and house rules do you use to keep trades reasonable?

04-14-2021, 01:18 PM	#7
ineedplayerpics Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 136	The game can be funny at times. The Padres massively overvalued one of my lesser prospects and were willing to trade me Snell and others for him. In Reality I would win this trade by a mile; however, my assistant GM advised me not to take the deal �� __________________

04-14-2021, 08:18 PM	#13
Doc_Giggle Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 38	In OOTP 22 with the difficulty slider at max difficulty, and one notch from the max of "favor prospects", I've found the trade AI to be extremely difficult. In contrast, during OOTP 21, I'd have to evaluate each trade and intentionally handicap myself not to rip off the AI even with it at set at "very hard". So if I'm actually capable of pulling off a trade with these settings, I'm pulling the trigger. I calculated that each team in my fictional league does an average of 2.4 trades a year, so I limit myself to 3 trades a year max so that I'm not behaving in a way that's wildly different than the rest of the AI. Also the difference in number of players can be at most 1, so no 3-for-1 trades (but at the highest difficulty, adding in extra mid-tier talent doesn't really make the AI budge from its initial demands so it probably doesn't matter as much in this version). Last edited by Doc_Giggle; 04-14-2021 at 10:55 PM.

04-14-2021, 11:01 PM	#15
andyhdz All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Fresno, CA by way of Texas Posts: 1,754	Trade AI has been improved greatly but it's also a topic that people on here will NEVER be satisfied with. __________________ *************************************** It's your game. Play it how you like it. ***************************************

04-16-2021, 02:55 PM	#19
Ratbelly Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 131	I find that on the hard setting in challenge mode, that there are some pretty realistic trades, but maybe that is me just sucking. I have not been able to fleece the CPU, but I have actually seen some good trades that helped both teams. I traded my underperforming injury riddled 4 star pitcher for a 4.9 WAR Shortstop thinking I had won that trade and I actually lost it. The pitcher turned around and went 15-3 and led the league in ERA and has stayed injury free for 2 years and my shortstop declined to a middle of the road guy offensively, although still good defensively. I find the CPU not going after guys with bad contracts as well unless I eat a big portion and they usually don't offer much in return. __________________ Last edited by Ratbelly; 04-16-2021 at 02:58 PM.

04-13-2021, 12:06 PM	#2
AirmenSmith Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 2,094	Before OOTP22 I would leave the trading set to default normal. Now I have it one notch below hard and find it to actually be fairly reasonable so I don't use house rules anymore. I use to use house rules for contracts a lot. I would offer a 3 year deal, with the last two being team options, to a player with no intention of keeping him past 1 year. I would load up the option years so he would sign. I stopped doing that. __________________ Come join me on my Twitch Channel for gaming at its excellence Twitch Link

04-13-2021, 02:04 PM	#3
kidd_05_u2 All Star Reserve Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 521	House rules on trades and free agent signings are a must if you want to keep the solo game challenging. No matter how far up you move the slider, you can always find the AI glitching to overrate a terrible minor league player from time to time. Having the setting from hard to hardest is good in general, but trades have to be evaluated in their own right. My house rules: Only pursue major leaguers who are on the trading block, unless I'm willing to offer a really good prospect (this is really important to avoid the temptation of trading too frequently) Never use the "make this work now" button because that's how you find the players the AI is terribly overrating What I offer has to match the needs of the other team With free agents, I think it is important to make an effort to keep signigns limited to a given number because you can always find several average players willing to sign for less than 3mn. Even playing as the Marlins, you can overhaul the entire roster in only one free agency window while keeping within the budget if you really wanted to.

04-14-2021, 10:42 AM	#5
Dorfmann Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 138	Nothing specific, but if the trade seems unfair, I'm not doing it.

04-14-2021, 11:06 AM	#6
tward13 All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,964	I have it set to Hard and I still don't make certain deals. For example, I moved Betances for a MI I could put in AAA and a low level RP prospect. I passed on Altuve and Bauer

04-14-2021, 02:27 PM	#9
eas9898 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 67	Another situation where we have to adjust settings to work around the weak AI. Devs please, stop adding features and spend some energy focusing on AI. We would all appreciate it.

04-14-2021, 07:29 PM	#12
oldfatbaldguy Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 393	I find that one of the great things about OOTP is that sometimes when you feel guilty about a trade, it turns out you didn't fleece that sucker after all. I've seen plenty of minor leaguers I agreed to add to trades because my scouts thought they were no-hopers turn out to be good major-leaguers. But I find it's too easy to get something for a player you have no use for, even one you've DFAed and are fixin' to release. So I have a system of house rules. Hitting the high points: I initiate trades only by floating players. I don't put a player on the trading block unless he requests a trade. I can only float each player once a year, using a calendar year that begins the day after the trading deadline. And I can't float a player for a full year after I've acquired him. (This doesn't apply to players I didn't acquire, who were already on the team when I took the job, which tends to make me a more active trader in my first year on the job. This feels realistic.) I never use "make this work now." This doesn't mean I never trade a player I've acquired less than a year ago, but it means I only do that if the other team asks for him, either as part of an incoming trade offer or as part of the list attached to a NO WAY! message during negotiations. There's more, but if you're not already bored, I should stop now. I also use the "Very Hard" setting. I have recently noticed that early in the first year of a fictional save, because there's no history, GMs who put a lot of weight on this year's stats are vulnerable. If a bad player has a hot start you can trade him for a much better player who is having a cold start. I haven't figured out what, if anything, I should do about that.

04-14-2021, 11:47 PM	#16
discodude5 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 370	It's tricky because we all want to make our team better and trading does that. However we can quickly turn a fun challenging team into a boring powerhouse if we're not looking out for the ai teams. I like to look at their depth around the players involved. They could be offering a solid 30 hr 1B for our #4 SP but they have a young 1B about to break out and our #4 SP would be #2 on their team. So maybe we win the trade quality wise but it could makes sense. If they want to make the same trade but the SP isn't even going to be in the rotation I would look at actually seeing if our #3 SP would make more sense. I try to not beat the ai in trades but help them make a trade that helps both of us. This is prior to '22 and it sounds like from some of the replies here that it may be better.

04-15-2021, 01:05 AM	#17
Bobfather All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Boston Ma. Posts: 1,645	[QUOTE=robc;4771297]I think I may have inadvertently made the game too easy. I had the trade difficulty set 3 notches above the default middle setting. Initially, the AI had turned down some lopsided trades, but still have been able to acquire some very good players by offering a couple good young players. Most of them are performing well for their team, but I think I got the better of the deal. In 1978 so far I’ve traded for Cecil Cooper, Dave Winfield, Gary Carter, Jeff Burroughs. A question since I don't play historical. Could you have a bias about players since you know where their careers are headed and the AI is just looking at the current information? In other words, if Gary Carter was John Cisco (made up name)would you feel the same way about the trade? And you never mentioned what you gave up in these trades.

05-14-2021, 10:26 PM	#20
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,106	I think the trading difficulty is fair on default to be honest. What makes it "unfair" (and I have never agreed with the implementation of these features) is the uses of both "shop player" and "make this work now". These two features enable the human GM to manipulate the AI. It would be nice if perhaps in challenge mode these features were disabled...or perhaps the option to completely disable them in regular mode. I have always felt the "trade block" serves as a way to shop players without being able to see all the players the AI values and doesn't value.