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OOTP 22 - Historical Simulations Discuss historical simulations and their results in this forum.

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Old 04-04-2021, 09:30 AM   #1
David Watts
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Coaching

Should we turn off coaching for historical sims? Some of the stuff I've been reading about in the non historical forums, makes me think it might be a good idea. I don't want coaches changing Alan Trammell from a historical Trammell to a fictional one. Thoughts?
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Old 04-04-2021, 02:48 PM   #2
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I have never used coach in my historical games since the first day I played OOTP... Not because I fear what could happen but because I don't want fictional managers in my game.
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Old 04-04-2021, 10:14 PM   #3
Darviathar
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Should we turn off coaching for historical sims? Some of the stuff I've been reading about in the non historical forums, makes me think it might be a good idea. I don't want coaches changing Alan Trammell from a historical Trammell to a fictional one. Thoughts?

I'm playing with it on, but I think poor coaching plus bad chemistry can really wreck your team. I decided to start in 1980, and take my Dodgers forward. I made myself GM+ manager, and couldn't figure out why my team was under-performing horrible. I was 3rd in runs scored, 2nd in runs allowed (admittedly, bad in zone rating and defense), and closer to last place than first. I then realized that I had a bunch of lousy coaches, plus a manager with no reputation (myself) as opposed to historical Tommy Lasorda. This game does *not* do a good job rating coaches or managers. The managers will be historical, but it bases their ratings on on years managed. I restarted my franchise and took the time to go in and try to edit Hall of Fame managers and make sure that guys like Joe Torre and Tony LaRussa weren't permanently out of a job after year one. Probably better to leave this off if you are looking for the most realism, but given that I plan to go through at least 40 seasons, I decided I wanted to try to develop coaches and former plays as well.
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Old 04-14-2021, 05:53 PM   #4
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I have no idea if coaches (or player development money) have an effect in historical. I include coaches because it gives me something to spend money on.
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Old 04-14-2021, 06:41 PM   #5
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First thing, I turn off coaching, owner goals, and story lines. But I also prefer 1-year recalc and have development off. So, probably obviously, I'm typically going for sims that are the most-accurate compared to history. And I'm thinking that coaching, owner goals**, and story lines would introduce items that would push the game away from historical accuracy. That's not a bad thing, just depending upon what level of accuracy you're going for...

**Note: I suppose owner goals - I'm not actually all that familiar with that feature - might not affect the replay & accuracy, but would affect how I interact with the game by introducing elements that don't interest me.
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Old 04-14-2021, 09:16 PM   #6
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I have them on but I really don't have any use for them so I think I'll turn them off.
I am also playing 1 year recalc and development/owners goals off.
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Old 04-16-2021, 11:03 AM   #7
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We actually have two different games, a historical one and a fantasy one. Some features of the fantasy games shouldn't affect an historical game. But the documentation treats it all as one game.

For example, this

"OOTP follows the concept of the "defensive spectrum." The defensive spectrum is as follows: DH - 1B - LF - RF - 3B - CF - 2B - SS. Generally speaking, the further to the right, the harder the position is to play and the harder it will be to convert a player to that position. Position players can learn to play catcher, but it often takes a very long time, and they typically don't make very good ones."


Fact is its not possible to turn a SS into a CF in a historical game unless he made the change real life. And if recalc is off he'll never make the change even if he did real life.
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Old 04-24-2021, 04:52 PM   #8
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I also turn off owner's goals and coaching first thing, as well as storylines. I do play 5-year recalc though. As for personalities and team chemistry, if it were based on realistic data, so that players that WERE real leaders in the clubhouse were here great, but it does not seem so. It is kind of random and so I turn that stuff off too. But I also play without the financial system, so I am also kind of particular about what interests me and what does not. I do miss the old game, I think maybe it was 15 (?) when you could hire a symbolic manager, like have Jackie Robinson manage when he retired, or Stan Musial, but manage the team yourself. That isn't possible anymore so I don't bother with managers.
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Old 04-25-2021, 09:14 AM   #9
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I have been thinking about this for a couple days which means I am probably wrong.
If you turn off coaching then every team will have identical neutral strategy and I suppose all the AI GM attributes will be neutral and average.
"I think" with coaching on (recall on) and development off then coaches will have no impact on player ratings. If development is on then coaching will have an impact but the amount of impact may be dependent on talent randomness.
Like I said, this is mostly just a guess.
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Old 04-25-2021, 05:13 PM   #10
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I just can't make myself play using the morale/personality ratings. I don't manage or gm, so it's probably not a huge deal. It just drives me nuts to see how many players are unhappy/mad all the time. Maybe I only notice the angry unhappy guys, but even if that's the case, I'd rather not see it. Gets kind of depressing.
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Old 04-25-2021, 06:52 PM   #11
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I just can't make myself play using the morale/personality ratings. I don't manage or gm, so it's probably not a huge deal. It just drives me nuts to see how many players are unhappy/mad all the time. Maybe I only notice the angry unhappy guys, but even if that's the case, I'd rather not see it. Gets kind of depressing.
I completely agree. I found it no fun at all to have to manage that stuff.
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Old 04-28-2021, 02:43 PM   #12
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First thing, I turn off coaching, owner goals, and story lines. But I also prefer 1-year recalc and have development off. So, probably obviously, I'm typically going for sims that are the most-accurate compared to history. And I'm thinking that coaching, owner goals**, and story lines would introduce items that would push the game away from historical accuracy. That's not a bad thing, just depending upon what level of accuracy you're going for...

**Note: I suppose owner goals - I'm not actually all that familiar with that feature - might not affect the replay & accuracy, but would affect how I interact with the game by introducing elements that don't interest me.
With development off how do you handle a player like Roberto Clemente who sometimes ends up playing as superstars into his 50s? I also enjoy single season recalc, but find that the stars who's careers ended prematurely can sometimes end up having immersion breaking careers. Are you having them retire at the age they actually retired at?
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Old 04-28-2021, 03:27 PM   #13
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I have a settings question.

Every once in a while I see someone on here say that they use the retire according to history option when playing historical. If you do this, how do you deal with teams not having enough players due to retirements? Or teams extremely shorthanded in terms of players? Do you play with zero fatigue?
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Old 04-28-2021, 04:00 PM   #14
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I'm really curious on this one and what your settings are. I've been playing since the beginning version of the game and running on-line leagues for the better part of 15 years. I've never had a player play beyond 45 or so and very very very rarely. And that is in a league with injuries turned down to very low. I just want to make sure that I don't someone change a setting and have that happen.

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With development off how do you handle a player like Roberto Clemente who sometimes ends up playing as superstars into his 50s? I also enjoy single season recalc, but find that the stars who's careers ended prematurely can sometimes end up having immersion breaking careers. Are you having them retire at the age they actually retired at?
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Old 04-28-2021, 06:25 PM   #15
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I have a settings question.

Every once in a while I see someone on here say that they use the retire according to history option when playing historical. If you do this, how do you deal with teams not having enough players due to retirements? Or teams extremely shorthanded in terms of players? Do you play with zero fatigue?
I usually start in 1901 historical. I play retire according to history so having enough players prior to 1907 was a problem. I play with injuries off and I figure if I play with injuries on that is a double whamy. I am currently playing with fatigue on high. To overcome the lack of players I set players do not miss seasons as in real life. In 1907 I click that on so they will start missing seasons as in real life. In the earl years I do go in to each team to make sure they have enough players and sometimes have to move a couple minor players around. Teams usually have 26 or 27 players.
I use to play players miss seasons according to history but that was to much of a headache adjusting most teams prior to season start, but doable.
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Old 04-28-2021, 10:57 PM   #16
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With development off how do you handle a player like Roberto Clemente who sometimes ends up playing as superstars into his 50s? I also enjoy single season recalc, but find that the stars who's careers ended prematurely can sometimes end up having immersion breaking careers. Are you having them retire at the age they actually retired at?
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I'm really curious on this one and what your settings are. I've been playing since the beginning version of the game and running on-line leagues for the better part of 15 years. I've never had a player play beyond 45 or so and very very very rarely. And that is in a league with injuries turned down to very low. I just want to make sure that I don't someone change a setting and have that happen.
I was just running a test, historical with no historical transactions, with minors, with development on, 1-yr re-calc. Koufax played until age 50, and was dominant except for his final season, where he was merely very good. Clemente played until 49 and was also excellent.

I tried another test, same settings except I turned development on but had Talent Change Randomness set to 2 (meaning development was in effect, but just barely). In that test, the development engine apparently took over after Koufax & Clemente ran out of real-life stats, and their OOTP careers then took believable paths: Koufax was excellent for 5 more seasons (after his real-life retirement), then had a mediocre final season at age 36, and retired. Clemente played two more seasons as a part-timer before retiring at age 39. (Also, Lyman Bostock had a reasonable OOTP career: a couple decent seasons before fading away.)

So I think - based upon limited testing - the answer to quillenl's question is to play with the development engine on, and having the number set very low. That's assuming you want guys to have seasons similar to their real-life seasons, and want guys who retired early IRL to keep playing in OOTP, but not to unrealistic levels and age.

Finally, it may be worth noting that the Retire According to History and Miss Seasons Accdg to History checkboxes do not work if you are playing with historical transactions. This used to work - you could play with historical transactions, uncheck Retire Accdg to History, and Koufax would not retire early. Several versions ago this was changed for some unknown reason, and the ability to play that way no longer exists.
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Old 04-28-2021, 11:03 PM   #17
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I have a settings question.

Every once in a while I see someone on here say that they use the retire according to history option when playing historical. If you do this, how do you deal with teams not having enough players due to retirements? Or teams extremely shorthanded in terms of players? Do you play with zero fatigue?
Assuming a 1901 (or thereabouts) start, I don't usually have a problem if I play with injuries very low. Fatigue generally won't matter, but with injuries so low I set fatigue to high so I don't have 7 guys on every team with 150+ games played. (Once in a great while I have a team get hit by a combination of small roster size and a rash of injuries, and then the game will stop and tell me Team X has too few players to play. So at that point I'll just throw a couple of scrub free agents on that team...)

At some point, I start bumping up the injury level, but rarely higher than OOTP classic (personal preference). You should get to a point - certainly by approx 1920 - that the number of players shouldn't be an issue.
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Old 04-29-2021, 06:28 AM   #18
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I was just running a test, historical with no historical transactions, with minors, with development on, 1-yr re-calc. Koufax played until age 50, and was dominant except for his final season, where he was merely very good. Clemente played until 49 and was also excellent.

I tried another test, same settings except I turned development on but had Talent Change Randomness set to 2 (meaning development was in effect, but just barely). In that test, the development engine apparently took over after Koufax & Clemente ran out of real-life stats, and their OOTP careers then took believable paths: Koufax was excellent for 5 more seasons (after his real-life retirement), then had a mediocre final season at age 36, and retired. Clemente played two more seasons as a part-timer before retiring at age 39. (Also, Lyman Bostock had a reasonable OOTP career: a couple decent seasons before fading away.)

So I think - based upon limited testing - the answer to quillenl's question is to play with the development engine on, and having the number set very low. That's assuming you want guys to have seasons similar to their real-life seasons, and want guys who retired early IRL to keep playing in OOTP, but not to unrealistic levels and age.

Finally, it may be worth noting that the Retire According to History and Miss Seasons Accdg to History checkboxes do not work if you are playing with historical transactions. This used to work - you could play with historical transactions, uncheck Retire Accdg to History, and Koufax would not retire early. Several versions ago this was changed for some unknown reason, and the ability to play that way no longer exists.
Nice post. I wonder how much affect the aging development would affect these players. What is the upper setting limit for aging development?
Anyway, good post.
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Old 04-29-2021, 10:31 AM   #19
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I was just running a test, historical with no historical transactions, with minors, with development on, 1-yr re-calc. Koufax played until age 50, and was dominant except for his final season, where he was merely very good. Clemente played until 49 and was also excellent.

I tried another test, same settings except I turned development on but had Talent Change Randomness set to 2 (meaning development was in effect, but just barely). In that test, the development engine apparently took over after Koufax & Clemente ran out of real-life stats, and their OOTP careers then took believable paths: Koufax was excellent for 5 more seasons (after his real-life retirement), then had a mediocre final season at age 36, and retired. Clemente played two more seasons as a part-timer before retiring at age 39. (Also, Lyman Bostock had a reasonable OOTP career: a couple decent seasons before fading away.)

So I think - based upon limited testing - the answer to quillenl's question is to play with the development engine on, and having the number set very low. That's assuming you want guys to have seasons similar to their real-life seasons, and want guys who retired early IRL to keep playing in OOTP, but not to unrealistic levels and age.

Finally, it may be worth noting that the Retire According to History and Miss Seasons Accdg to History checkboxes do not work if you are playing with historical transactions. This used to work - you could play with historical transactions, uncheck Retire Accdg to History, and Koufax would not retire early. Several versions ago this was changed for some unknown reason, and the ability to play that way no longer exists.
Several of my solo leagues have Talent Change Randomness set to 1. I do not believe it has the effect on development you may think from what I have seen, I see a small difference in nobodies become star prospects, and virtually no difference in the number of players who suddenly go from stars to done. I'd started playing that way in non recalc leagues as I found historical careers to be a happier middle ground between recalc and the default randomness setting of 100. I'd experimented with it expecting top see just what you'd expect... and started using it when I discovered it was actually a very nice setting for my historical leagues.

Long story short I see unbelievably little difference between the setting it at 1 and setting it at 100 in leagues where I do not use recalc. Sim a historical league 50 seasons while eating dinner with it set to 1 and you'll see what I mean when you look at the leaderboards. Very little difference in the number of players being productive in their late 30s and longer.
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Old 04-29-2021, 10:33 AM   #20
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Wonder how a league starting in say 1962 with retire according to history on, would do in terms of the the 4 team expansion in 1969? Would those 4 teams even come close to starting the year with a full roster? If so, would this lead to other teams in the league being understaffed? Probably need to run a test league to check this out before committing long term.
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