Very Strange

[David Watts]

Goofing around this weekend. Set up a couple different historical games starting in 1948. One using 1 year recalc and another using 3 year double weight current year. Injuries turned off. Fatigue set to high. Development on, 100 TCR

Strangest thing I witnessed had to be Warren Spahn retiring in both runs somewhere around 1957 or 58. Can't quite figure that one out. He has a down year and then just calls it quits.

In the one year recalc run, Ted Williams retired after he 53 season.

The game really likes Al Kaline. In the one year run, Kaline hit 500+ home runs and tallied 3600+ hits. In the 3 year recalc run, he had 3400+ hits and 400+ home runs.

In a way, I almost think injuries might not even be needed when playing historical. Recalc hits a players performance enough over the course of a career to make injuries a double whammy.

[Garlon]

Try turning off "Enable Storylines" in the global settings. Even if you turn on retire according to history, the storylines will still cause players to retire earlier.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Garlon

Try turning off "Enable Storylines" in the global settings. Even if you turn on retire according to history, the storylines will still cause players to retire earlier.

I had that turned off. It was very strange to see Spahn fizzle out in both runs. Not even sure what triggered it.

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I had that turned off. It was very strange to see Spahn fizzle out in both runs. Not even sure what triggered it.

It's probably because you have development turned on. If you do, then I think his ratings can dip temporarily during the season, even with recalc, and maybe that's why his performance suffered and he decided to retire.

In real life, Spahn was 36 and 37 years old during those seasons, and in OOTP terms that means he's probably going to start declining and retire. Have you checked his scouting reports to see if his temporary in-season ratings dipped and caused his drop-off? Did he retire before the next recalc took place?

[Brad K]

I play 3 year recalc no weighting development on. I've never had a long career player retire more than a year or two before their historic retirement.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Brad K

I play 3 year recalc no weighting development on. I've never had a long career player retire more than a year or two before their historic retirement.

I decided to start in 1962 using 5 year recalc. I'm using the make bad settings suggested by Garlon. I have injuries disabled. I'm using Very High for position player fatigue. I've also set pitching rotations to strict occasionally start the highest rested. I turned on free agency and I'm using the amateur draft, so I have no idea which teams will prosper and which will struggle.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I'm using the make bad settings suggested by Garlon.

Can you remind what these are? Or, if you have it handy, can you point to where he recommended those? I'm curious as to the justification for his settings, as I typically use 100/40/30/10 but I don't really know why...

On a related (?) note, I'm also wondering if anyone has any workarounds for the following, in the form of an example:

- 1974-thru-1979 real-life Manny Mota excelled in a 94% pinch-hitting role - hitting .310 in 301 AB's - but never getting more than 60 AB's in any of those seasons.

- Assuming your "adjust" settings are somewhere above 60 AB's, OOTP will give Manny ratings that essentially make him a reserve-roster or minor-league-level player. (In a recent sim without minors, Mota went 35-for-137 (.255 avg) from '74-'79; in a recent sim with minors, he spent the entirety of the '74-'79 period in AAA.)

- In addition, apparently OOTP has a pinch-hitting penalty, which disproportionately affects guys whose primary role is pinch-hitting.

One thing that's worked for me before is doubling (or tripling) - to get his AB's over the "adjust" settings level - Manny's real-life stats in OOTP and then having OOTP re-rack his stats. This works fine if I am managing the Dodgers and am therefore utilizing him as he was utilized in real-life, but if I'm not managing LA, then OOTP sees Manny's high average and uses him as a starter, plus other team's pinch-hitters don't get this benefit.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by thehef

Can you remind what these are? Or, if you have it handy, can you point to where he recommended those? I'm curious as to the justification for his settings, as I typically use 100/40/30/10 but I don't really know why...

On a related (?) note, I'm also wondering if anyone has any workarounds for the following, in the form of an example:

- 1974-thru-1979 real-life Manny Mota excelled in a 94% pinch-hitting role - hitting .310 in 301 AB's - but never getting more than 60 AB's in any of those seasons.

- Assuming your "adjust" settings are somewhere above 60 AB's, OOTP will give Manny ratings that essentially make him a reserve-roster or minor-league-level player. (In a recent sim without minors, Mota went 35-for-137 (.255 avg) from '74-'79; in a recent sim with minors, he spent the entirety of the '74-'79 period in AAA.)

- In addition, apparently OOTP has a pinch-hitting penalty, which disproportionately affects guys whose primary role is pinch-hitting.

One thing that's worked for me before is doubling (or tripling) - to get his AB's over the "adjust" settings level - Manny's real-life stats in OOTP and then having OOTP re-rack his stats. This works fine if I am managing the Dodgers and am therefore utilizing him as he was utilized in real-life, but if I'm not managing LA, then OOTP sees Manny's high average and uses him as a starter, plus other team's pinch-hitters don't get this benefit.

I just bumped the thread Garlon posted in. His is the last post before my bump.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by thehef

Can you remind what these are? Or, if you have it handy, can you point to where he recommended those? I'm curious as to the justification for his settings, as I typically use 100/40/30/10 but I don't really know why...

On a related (?) note, I'm also wondering if anyone has any workarounds for the following, in the form of an example:

- 1974-thru-1979 real-life Manny Mota excelled in a 94% pinch-hitting role - hitting .310 in 301 AB's - but never getting more than 60 AB's in any of those seasons.

- Assuming your "adjust" settings are somewhere above 60 AB's, OOTP will give Manny ratings that essentially make him a reserve-roster or minor-league-level player. (In a recent sim without minors, Mota went 35-for-137 (.255 avg) from '74-'79; in a recent sim with minors, he spent the entirety of the '74-'79 period in AAA.)

- In addition, apparently OOTP has a pinch-hitting penalty, which disproportionately affects guys whose primary role is pinch-hitting.

One thing that's worked for me before is doubling (or tripling) - to get his AB's over the "adjust" settings level - Manny's real-life stats in OOTP and then having OOTP re-rack his stats. This works fine if I am managing the Dodgers and am therefore utilizing him as he was utilized in real-life, but if I'm not managing LA, then OOTP sees Manny's high average and uses him as a starter, plus other team's pinch-hitters don't get this benefit.

When Mota was shipped to the minors, did the AI promote guys that couldn't hit a lick, but had extremely high defensive ratings?

[thehef]

Originally Posted by David Watts

When Mota was shipped to the minors, did the AI promote guys that couldn't hit a lick, but had extremely high defensive ratings?

Hard to say exactly, since I don't have transaction history files going back that far (the sim is now in 1991). But Mota spent the entirety of those seasons in AAA and was likely part of a bulk player shipment to Albuquerque just prior to the start of the season. At any rate, some of the end-of-bench guys who were on the big-league roster for the entire season instead of Mota, but weren't on the big-league roster in real-life (at least not for most of it) were:

1974: middle-infielder Ivan DeJesus, catcher Gail Hopkins, and IB/OF Charlie Manuel
1975: Manuel, SS Mark Bradley
1976: OF Joe Simpson, De Jesus, catcher/utility Danny Walton, IF/OF Pedro Guerrero
1977: OF Jeff Leonard, catcher Ted Farr, Guerrero, 3B/OF Mickey Hatcher
1978: OF Ron Roenicke, Guerrero, SS Gary Weiss, Hatcher
1979: Weiss, IF Alex Taveras, 2B Jack Perconte

Since pretty much all of these replacements for Mota were, in real-life, full-time minor-league players, I would imagine that most of them have higher defensive ratings than Mota's (I'm assuming Mota's would be poor due to his mere 17 total outfield appearances from '74-'79).

So while I understand what AI is doing & why, I'm still wondering if there's a way around it in order to have AI more-closely approximate Mota's actual role & performance.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by thehef

Hard to say exactly, since I don't have transaction history files going back that far (the sim is now in 1991). But Mota spent the entirety of those seasons in AAA and was likely part of a bulk player shipment to Albuquerque just prior to the start of the season. At any rate, some of the end-of-bench guys who were on the big-league roster for the entire season instead of Mota, but weren't on the big-league roster in real-life (at least not for most of it) were:

1974: middle-infielder Ivan DeJesus, catcher Gail Hopkins, and IB/OF Charlie Manuel
1975: Manuel, SS Mark Bradley
1976: OF Joe Simpson, De Jesus, catcher/utility Danny Walton, IF/OF Pedro Guerrero
1977: OF Jeff Leonard, catcher Ted Farr, Guerrero, 3B/OF Mickey Hatcher
1978: OF Ron Roenicke, Guerrero, SS Gary Weiss, Hatcher
1979: Weiss, IF Alex Taveras, 2B Jack Perconte

Since pretty much all of these replacements for Mota were, in real-life, full-time minor-league players, I would imagine that most of them have higher defensive ratings than Mota's (I'm assuming Mota's would be poor due to his mere 17 total outfield appearances from '74-'79).

So while I understand what AI is doing & why, I'm still wondering if there's a way around it in order to have AI more-closely approximate Mota's actual role & performance.

It's my opinion that fielding ratings are messed up when using real majors. I think a lot of the guys that never made it up in real life have way too high defensive ratings and it forces the AI to promote them above guys that could actually play.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by David Watts

It's my opinion that fielding ratings are messed up when using real majors. I think a lot of the guys that never made it up in real life have way too high defensive ratings and it forces the AI to promote them above guys that could actually play.

You mean real minors, but ya. It's either that the fielding ratings of minor-leaguers are messed up, or they are overvalued by OOTP AI.

But in the case of a guy like Mota, OOTP isn't just choosing a minor-leaguer over him because of fielding ratings. It's also devaluing - ratings-wise - Mota on offense.