Questions about historical simulations

Seven_ · 12-13-2020, 11:13 AM

Hello everyone,

I've lurked around the forums, and the ootp subreddit among other places. I posted something similar in the newcomers forum but I didn't get much of a response. I've looked around at various posts, and I'm very excited to begin playing OOTP, but I have a few questions.

1. I want to do a historical replay, but I want to integrate baseball earlier. I know this is possible, but I've read that the ratings/potential ratings for the Negro League Players are a little wonky. Examples being guys like Josh Gibson, Oscar Charleston, and Satchel Paige not being as good as they were believed to be in real life. Is there a different database of players that I could download to make sure these Legends are rated in line to their major league counterparts?

2. Concerning Recalc/OOTP development engine: During this play through I want guys like Mickey Mantle, Lou Gehrig, Ted Williams, etc to become the stars that they were, but at the same time I would like to see how there careers would've turned out without things like military service, injury, and so on. Should I rely more on the OOTP development engine for my historical replay? Or should their development be controlled by recalc? It would be cool to see a random player every so often that either had an injury or couldn't amount to much in the big leagues become stars.

3. I don't want their to ever be a prospect draft, at least until one was instituted in the 60's. Is there anyway for the new young talent each year to just show up in the free agent pool and then for all the teams around the league have a chance to sign them?

4. On top of the Negro Leagues, can I incorporate players from *** as well? Sign guys like Oh, and Nagashima from Japan? This is more of a pipe dream than anything, I'm just curious.

Thank you so much, I appreciate it.

Whoman69 · 01-15-2021, 12:42 PM

I have tried this too. It looks like the stats they have for Paige are based on his days as a 40 year old player in MLB. I didn't even find Cool Papa Bell

macprivateer · 01-15-2021, 02:22 PM

Welcome. I too am very new to the game but have had some of the very same questions you have and learned quite a bit already so happy to share what I know. However, I am VERY FAR from having a strong understanding of the game so take all this as one noob to another.

1). I’m just beginning to create a plan for my integration of baseball in a replay I’m planning to begin in 1901 season. What I have learned is that if you want Josh Gibson to be JOSH GIBSON you will need to manually alter his ratings each and every year unless you allow the development engine to take over your game. But note, the development model will NOT guarantee that Gibson becomes great (more on that in the answer to your #2 question).

For any of the players in Negro Leagues you need to basically understand how the game adjusts players from minor leagues to major leagues. Currently, all NLB leagues (sans MLB’s recent decision to list NLB as a major league so this may change in say OOTP21 or 22 or 23

) are minor leagues in OOTP and so any player manually added to the majors will come in with their ratings based on MINOR LEAGUE STATS. Which of course means that Josh Gibson’s great stats are merely minor league level and so his ratings in the major will be decreased.

It is possible to “roll your own” database but that’s WAY beyond me so can’t even explain how/what is needed for that.

2). I’d suggest learning more about recalc and the development engine from the pros here, but IMO the recalc is essentially an “average smoothing” engine while the development model completely takes over control of the player’s career and may produce careers which far exceed or far reduce a player’s actual stats they had over their actual careers.

For recalc, and from my (very limited) toying with OOTP, the engine with various adjustments to its algorithm, will take someone’s career and smooth out any highs and lows by adjusting the ratings (which in turn govern what stats the player will ultimately have). So for example, lets take Reggie Jackson at the start of his career. By using the recalc with settings at 3 or 5 year recalc (as opposed to 1 year), Mr October would not see his ratings go down as much from 1969 to 1970 and then go up again in 1971. Of course, OOTP is a simulation and as such will come up with quite a bit of variability in terms of real stats and game produced stats. That being said, Reggie’s recalc’d ratings (on average) should not produce the big drop in production he had in 1970 and instead have 1969, 1970, 1971 more in line with each other (IF using the 3 or 5 year recalc). Using just 1 year recalc will lead to the highs and lows but will still have the variablility becasue again OOTP is a simulation and so player's stats can (and will) be off their actuals. I come from decades of playing APBA and while OOTP IMO is a FAR better game overall, it is also FAR away from the accuracy that APBA had.

A further caveat, there are gazillions of settings in OOTP which can effect the game produced stats. So don’t look at the recalc options as the only thing affecting player's stats produced by the game.

Back to development engine, I suggest reading more from the old timers here that have run multiple (and very long based) historical replays. But from what I’ve learned, the development engine can (and often does) create wildly different outcomes to player’s careers. How wild? Again, look at guys who post their results from their long term replays and you’ll get a sense.

3). The draft can be turned on or off and I believe can be turned off until, as you wish, a later period and then turned on. So I believe the answer is Yes and you can have players show up as FA first and then create a draft some time later in the 60's.

4). Although I haven’t tried it, I do believe the answer is YES. You can incorporate ANY player from ANY league into the majors (all the same issues from #1 & #2 of course will apply).

Hope this helps

bobellis75 · 01-22-2021, 10:08 PM

Hmmmm...as I have said elsewhere...I have not gone TOO DEEP into the historical sims, etc, though I do want to. I especially have heavy interest in the Negro Leagues, but reading the above answers, sounds like they get short changed as they are considered minor leaguers, so doing an integration sim would not exactly treat them fairly (go figure, right?)

I guess I'm also curious how to best adapt them to the real life talents...so they really are difference makers and super stars in a long-term replay through history.

Sounds like its a hassle, and would have to adjust all of them manually...? If they are dispersed into the league as though segregated baseball never happened, that would be an awful lot of trouble, to have to find each player (where would you even begin on a search...) and adjust them.

luckymann · 01-22-2021, 11:55 PM

There are numerous threads on here re Negro League players, which - to put it mildly - are problematic within the OOTP context.

I'd suggest you go a-hunting and bower-bird the info you're after. It's a topic that's fairly well covered on these boards. I've semi-successfully added some NL players to my saves following the info I've pilfered from them.

Seamheads is another invaluable resource, not to mention being right up there with the best baseball websites going around.

Re other leagues such as Japan, as far as I'm aware they aren't in any of the OOTP databases so it would be a manual process.

bobellis75 · 01-23-2021, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckymann

There are numerous threads on here re Negro League players, which - to put it mildly - are problematic within the OOTP context.

I'd suggest you go a-hunting and bower-bird the info you're after. It's a topic that's fairly well covered on these boards. I've semi-successfully added some NL players to my saves following the info I've pilfered from them.

Seamheads is another invaluable resource, not to mention being right up there with the best baseball websites going around.

Re other leagues such as Japan, as far as I'm aware they aren't in any of the OOTP databases so it would be a manual process.

Seamheads is great...I spend way too much time at that site (another Negro League project I'm working on)....

To your point, if we do need to manually add those players and manually adjust their ratings, etc, to be correct...Seamheads would be an excellent source to just look at guys by career WAR, etc, to get the top x amount of pitchers and position players from the Negro Leagues mixed into a historical sim.

3fbrown · 02-06-2021, 07:58 PM

I am doing an integrated league, you can read about it here:

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=319034

Short version - I started in 19th century, and since I am not playing with minor leagues, I import every player manually. Since all the Black players import as terrible, I use Seamheads to adjust their abilities manually. For the top players I also use the Hall of Miller & Eric, they have done amazing work translating stats to major league equivalencies.

Although Negro League guys are technically in the OOTP database, they import so poorly that it barely matters. Creating them from scratch would not be much more work.

01-22-2021, 11:55 PM	#5
luckymann Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 13,055	There are numerous threads on here re Negro League players, which - to put it mildly - are problematic within the OOTP context. I'd suggest you go a-hunting and bower-bird the info you're after. It's a topic that's fairly well covered on these boards. I've semi-successfully added some NL players to my saves following the info I've pilfered from them. Seamheads is another invaluable resource, not to mention being right up there with the best baseball websites going around. Re other leagues such as Japan, as far as I'm aware they aren't in any of the OOTP databases so it would be a manual process. __________________ HISTORICAL DO-OVERS A'S RED SOX DODGERS CUSTOM SAVES ECLIPSE LEAGUE MOON SHOT LEAGUE EVERYMAN LEAGUE GULF LEAGUE USBA

12-13-2020, 11:13 AM	#1
Seven_ Bat Boy Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 16	Questions about historical simulations Hello everyone, I've lurked around the forums, and the ootp subreddit among other places. I posted something similar in the newcomers forum but I didn't get much of a response. I've looked around at various posts, and I'm very excited to begin playing OOTP, but I have a few questions. 1. I want to do a historical replay, but I want to integrate baseball earlier. I know this is possible, but I've read that the ratings/potential ratings for the Negro League Players are a little wonky. Examples being guys like Josh Gibson, Oscar Charleston, and Satchel Paige not being as good as they were believed to be in real life. Is there a different database of players that I could download to make sure these Legends are rated in line to their major league counterparts? 2. Concerning Recalc/OOTP development engine: During this play through I want guys like Mickey Mantle, Lou Gehrig, Ted Williams, etc to become the stars that they were, but at the same time I would like to see how there careers would've turned out without things like military service, injury, and so on. Should I rely more on the OOTP development engine for my historical replay? Or should their development be controlled by recalc? It would be cool to see a random player every so often that either had an injury or couldn't amount to much in the big leagues become stars. 3. I don't want their to ever be a prospect draft, at least until one was instituted in the 60's. Is there anyway for the new young talent each year to just show up in the free agent pool and then for all the teams around the league have a chance to sign them? 4. On top of the Negro Leagues, can I incorporate players from *** as well? Sign guys like Oh, and Nagashima from Japan? This is more of a pipe dream than anything, I'm just curious. Thank you so much, I appreciate it.

01-15-2021, 12:42 PM	#2
Whoman69 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Is this Heaven, no its Iowa Posts: 30	I have tried this too. It looks like the stats they have for Paige are based on his days as a 40 year old player in MLB. I didn't even find Cool Papa Bell __________________ “That's a Winner”

01-15-2021, 02:22 PM	#3
macprivateer Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 33	Welcome. I too am very new to the game but have had some of the very same questions you have and learned quite a bit already so happy to share what I know. However, I am VERY FAR from having a strong understanding of the game so take all this as one noob to another. 1). I’m just beginning to create a plan for my integration of baseball in a replay I’m planning to begin in 1901 season. What I have learned is that if you want Josh Gibson to be JOSH GIBSON you will need to manually alter his ratings each and every year unless you allow the development engine to take over your game. But note, the development model will NOT guarantee that Gibson becomes great (more on that in the answer to your #2 question). For any of the players in Negro Leagues you need to basically understand how the game adjusts players from minor leagues to major leagues. Currently, all NLB leagues (sans MLB’s recent decision to list NLB as a major league so this may change in say OOTP21 or 22 or 23 ) are minor leagues in OOTP and so any player manually added to the majors will come in with their ratings based on MINOR LEAGUE STATS. Which of course means that Josh Gibson’s great stats are merely minor league level and so his ratings in the major will be decreased. It is possible to “roll your own” database but that’s WAY beyond me so can’t even explain how/what is needed for that. 2). I’d suggest learning more about recalc and the development engine from the pros here, but IMO the recalc is essentially an “average smoothing” engine while the development model completely takes over control of the player’s career and may produce careers which far exceed or far reduce a player’s actual stats they had over their actual careers. For recalc, and from my (very limited) toying with OOTP, the engine with various adjustments to its algorithm, will take someone’s career and smooth out any highs and lows by adjusting the ratings (which in turn govern what stats the player will ultimately have). So for example, lets take Reggie Jackson at the start of his career. By using the recalc with settings at 3 or 5 year recalc (as opposed to 1 year), Mr October would not see his ratings go down as much from 1969 to 1970 and then go up again in 1971. Of course, OOTP is a simulation and as such will come up with quite a bit of variability in terms of real stats and game produced stats. That being said, Reggie’s recalc’d ratings (on average) should not produce the big drop in production he had in 1970 and instead have 1969, 1970, 1971 more in line with each other (IF using the 3 or 5 year recalc). Using just 1 year recalc will lead to the highs and lows but will still have the variablility becasue again OOTP is a simulation and so player's stats can (and will) be off their actuals. I come from decades of playing APBA and while OOTP IMO is a FAR better game overall, it is also FAR away from the accuracy that APBA had. A further caveat, there are gazillions of settings in OOTP which can effect the game produced stats. So don’t look at the recalc options as the only thing affecting player's stats produced by the game. Back to development engine, I suggest reading more from the old timers here that have run multiple (and very long based) historical replays. But from what I’ve learned, the development engine can (and often does) create wildly different outcomes to player’s careers. How wild? Again, look at guys who post their results from their long term replays and you’ll get a sense. 3). The draft can be turned on or off and I believe can be turned off until, as you wish, a later period and then turned on. So I believe the answer is Yes and you can have players show up as FA first and then create a draft some time later in the 60's. 4). Although I haven’t tried it, I do believe the answer is YES. You can incorporate ANY player from ANY league into the majors (all the same issues from #1 & #2 of course will apply). Hope this helps

01-22-2021, 10:08 PM	#4
bobellis75 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 33	Hmmmm...as I have said elsewhere...I have not gone TOO DEEP into the historical sims, etc, though I do want to. I especially have heavy interest in the Negro Leagues, but reading the above answers, sounds like they get short changed as they are considered minor leaguers, so doing an integration sim would not exactly treat them fairly (go figure, right?) I guess I'm also curious how to best adapt them to the real life talents...so they really are difference makers and super stars in a long-term replay through history. Sounds like its a hassle, and would have to adjust all of them manually...? If they are dispersed into the league as though segregated baseball never happened, that would be an awful lot of trouble, to have to find each player (where would you even begin on a search...) and adjust them.

02-06-2021, 07:58 PM	#7
3fbrown Major Leagues Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 414	I am doing an integrated league, you can read about it here: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=319034 Short version - I started in 19th century, and since I am not playing with minor leagues, I import every player manually. Since all the Black players import as terrible, I use Seamheads to adjust their abilities manually. For the top players I also use the Hall of Miller & Eric, they have done amazing work translating stats to major league equivalencies. Although Negro League guys are technically in the OOTP database, they import so poorly that it barely matters. Creating them from scratch would not be much more work.