Too Many Unsigned High-Quality Free Agents

[Charlie Hough]

In past versions of OOTP, it was somewhat common to see the occasional prominent free agent go unsigned by opening day. But I'm running an 8-team fictional historical league, starting in 1901, and there was a large number of quality free agents who were unsigned as of opening day for the second season. This included a couple of the top batters in the league and another 10 to 15 players and pitchers who would probably be regulars in the starting lineup or good additions to a pitching staff.

Their contract demands were easily affordable for any of the 8 teams in the league, all of whom could have signed multiple players with their available funds for free agents. While some teams have differing goals and priorities from their owner, it didn't make any sense to see teams leaving potential star players on the market, especially for those who had weaker players at those positions.

Some of these players were eventually signed over a period of several weeks, but I had to act as GM of several teams to force them to make offers to some of those star players and improve their clubs.

Maybe it's something with the size of my league, teams having full reserve lists, or the AI simply making poor decisions. But this doesn't make much sense, especially when every team's finances are in excellent shape. If I had taken advantage of it as a human GM, I could have loaded up my team with even more talent than we already have as the reigning champions. It could have completely unbalanced the league.

Does anyone else see this happen with modern MLB games, historical games or fictional games? I've never experienced anything on this scale with OOTP before, so I'm wondering if this is a newer issue and whether the AI needs to be adjusted accordingly.

[BirdWatcher]

In my fictional league (see links in signature below) I certainly see some quality free agents go unsigned well into the early portion of the season, but it does seem like most of them are eventually signed. I know I was looking at free agents in my league recently- we are now in mid-September of the season- and there were perhaps 2 to 3 free agents who could be starters in the big leagues but the kind of veterans who could also find themselves not all that wanted at this stage of their careers.

So- I just pulled up the free agents list to check again- and what I am seeing is a 31-year old 3-star third baseman who is an Iron Man and has high intelligence. He is still a very fine defensive player and from his ratings does not look like a worthless hitter, but he did put up just 0.9 WAR last season.
After that there is a 32-year old fragile 2-star relief pitcher with very poor control. And a 34-year old 2-time All-Star, 2-time Gold Glove winning 2-star outfielder who is a Captain and an Iron Man. But he's only a 2-star player for a reason- his days of having a quality hit tool are long gone and he's only an average defender at this stage of his career.
Anyway, it's all downhill fast from there, with one 1 1/2 star player and then strictly 1-star or below players after that.

Now, I didn't monitor this closely as the season progressed so I don't know when other valuable free agents eventually signed or whether they signed minor league contracts or not. And I'm not sure why this decent third baseman is still out there and hasn't been at least signed to a minor league deal, but maybe he has turned down such offers.

Long story short- I don't have the length of history you do playing OOTP so it is hard for me to compare to older versions (I started with 18) but I'm not seeing anything in my fictional league that raises any red flags in my mind about how the AI is performing in this area.

[Charlie Hough]

In my particular game, this has been happening with players in their late 20s and guys who are as good as 4-star players. Here's a quick sample of two star players and a few more were were unsigned on opening day, including one that wasn't signed for three more weeks.

29 year-old 3.5-star 2B/LF with 8/6/6/6/9 batting ratings and 5 for almost all fielding ratings
28 year-old 4-star OF with 7/6/5/5/9 batting and fielding ratings of 9/8/7

34 year-old 3-star 3B with 6/6/7/6/8 batting and fielding/def ratings of 5 to 9
28 year-old 2.5-star RF with 5/9/7/6/6 batting, fielding/def ratings of 6 to 7 and 4/10/9 on the bases
28 year-old 2.5-star OF/1B/2B with 4/4/6/6/6, fielding ratings of 5-8 and 7/10/9 on the bases
27 year-old 3-star SS/2B with 5/4/3/5/8 batting, fielding/def of mostly 8s and 9s, and 7/8/8 on the bases

Once they've been signed, these players have immediately become regulars, so there's no reason for teams to have waited so long to sign them. But this is just a partial list that doesn't include a number of other very solid players who are either better than players on major league rosters or certainly better than a lot of the players on teams' reserve lists, many of which are aging veterans with worse ratings.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

In my particular game, this has been happening with players in their late 20s and guys who as good as 4-star players. Here's a quick sample of two star players and a few more were were unsigned on opening day, including one that wasn't signed for three more weeks.

29 year-old 3.5-star 2B/LF with 8/6/6/6/9 battings ratings and 5 for almost all fielding ratings
28 year-old 4-star OF with 7/6/5/5/9 batting and fielding ratings of 9/8/7

34 year-old 3-star 3B with 6/6/7/6/8 batting and fielding/def ratings of 5 to 9
28 year-old 2.5-star RF with 5/9/7/6/6 batting, fielding/def ratings of 6 to 7 and 4/10/9 on the bases
28 year-old 2.5-star OF/1B/2B with 4/4/6/6/6, fielding ratings of 5-8 and 7/10/9 on the bases
27 year-old 3-star SS/2B with 5/4/3/5/8 batting, fielding/def of mostly 8s and 9s, and 7/8/8 on the bases

Once they've been signed, these players have immediately become regulars, so there's no reason for teams to have waited so long to sign them. But this is just a partial list that doesn't include a number of other very solid players who are either better than players on major league rosters or certainly better than a lot of the players on teams' reserve lists, many of which are aging veterans with worse ratings.

Yes, that does seem hard to figure. My fictional league has 22 teams at this point and minor league systems that have 5 levels. Not sure how much of what you are seeing might be about league structure, etc.

[BirdWatcher]

So I'm just at the end of the first week of the Spring Training exhibition season schedule and I started thinking about this thread and decided to check and see what free agents remained unsigned.

Here are the top rated as of yet unsigned free agents:



The two catchers- Spencer Wilson and Kevin Curtis- are both very fine players and should be signed by someone soon I would hope. (I may be a bit biased as they both formerly played for my team in this league, but they both are particularly strong defensively and while Wilson is a high work ethic, low greed guy Curtis has in the past been a Fan Favorite with great leadership and work ethic.) The second baseman, Rob Bello, is a Fan Favorite and an excellent defensive player, but a weak hitter. The older players here (Nick Haran, David Beane) are probably a bit over-rated due to past exploits. There is a great defensive shortstop with little bat in Jimmy DeWing and a decent bat, no field shortstop in Danny Denison.
There are certainly a few other players a bit lower on the list (not shown) who could play roles on clubs and will likely eventually get signed.

What surprises me is the lack of premium relief pitchers who have gone into Spring Training still unsigned. That seems to be a common thing in OOTP (as it is, at least somewhat, in MLB) but this year none of that at all in my fictional league.

Anyway, just sharing this with you Charlie Hough in case it is interesting to you at all. Just one league, just one season, but it matches what I've been seeing in this fictional league. Which is to say that I'm not seeing the rather concerning pattern you have in your league.

EDIT: And the very next day Haran signs a 1-year deal with our arch-rival.

[ShawnSoup]

Send over your exported FA list, my league needs some quality FAs. We'll get them signed ASAP.

[PSUColonel]

this is a major issue IMO.

[Timofmars]

I'm playing OOTP 18. In my manager-only mode game, CF Andrew McCutchen was rated 63/80 overall as a FA in 2020 and never signed with anyone the whole year. It's almost halfway through 2021 and he has no demands listed (meaning he should be looking for a minor league contract) with a 53/80 overall rating and still no contract.

There's also a few good rated SPs available on a minor league deals that nobody is taking, rated 46, 43, and 35, and several more 40ish-rated position players.

I know from experience that if I had control of the trading, I could sign those players to minor league deals and easily package them together for a good trade deal.

I noticed that most of those players had a negative WAR in their most recent playing year, so maybe that is having an effect. Though if I turn on the "Use AI Evaluation for overall ratings" setting, the position players still have high ratings, and the SP ratings are super high, 74,72,71...

And the poor recent performances don't explain why a 40 rated SS with a 2.3 WAR previous season is still sitting there asking for a minor league deal.

I suppose it's possible my scouting is inaccurate on normal settings? I can't test it because it's on challenge mode. But I've seen similar things in 100% scouting accuracy games even with AI evaluation set to use 100% ratings, though I would end up taking advantage of the free players before they had a chance to sit this long.

I kinda wish I could develop the AI player handling logic myself to make it competitive and challenging so people didn't have to self-handicap to have a balanced game. OOTP, do you want to hire me for a temp job? I got lots of time on my hands.

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

What surprises me is the lack of premium relief pitchers who have gone into Spring Training still unsigned. That seems to be a common thing in OOTP (as it is, at least somewhat, in MLB) but this year none of that at all in my fictional league.

Yes, one thing that's strange about my league is that some teams have a LOT of substandard or bad relief pitchers on their reserve roster, yet they'll let excellent free agents at other positions go unsigned for too long.

To combat all of this, I've been acting as GM of various teams to sign some of their players to contract extensions during the season, so there hopefully won't be as many top free agents available after each season. I'm nearing the end of season two, so we'll see what happens once we get to free agency and then opening day for season three.

[ClownFundamentals]

The free agent logic needs some work. You've also got too many guys demanding contracts that are way out of line with where anyone would reasonably value them at. It makes sense that players should try to maximize their value but their demands should at least fall into the realm of what is reasonable unless maybe they're an aging former all-star who would rather just retire than play for less.

2 examples from the online league I recently joined.

- A bottom of the order platoon/4th outfileder type of guy who can't be worth more than a couple $Million per-season and supposedly has high loyalty wants a $90 million extension.

-I took over this team at the beginning of spring training and they didn't have a backup catcher. I found a 30 year-old free agent catcher who had spent the previous 5 or 6 seasons bouncing between playing in AAA and being a backup catcher in the major leagues and I offered him a league minimum deal, but a major league deal nonetheless. He refused and he's still sitting in free agency after the all-star break. It makes sense that a former starter who has already made serious money in his career might refuse such a deal, but in real life nobody in that situation would ever turn down a guaranteed major league contract like that.

[neugey]

It's 1901, about 70 years before anyone knew what a free agent was, and they're probably trying to conduct business via telegraph

[NolaSola7]

also know this issue for sure

[LeBronsElbow]

Playing historical 1956 start date

Unsign free agents

Mantle
Mays
Snider
Ford
Banks
Williams
Berra

All top players in this sim



Just ridiculous

[ShawnSoup]

Originally Posted by ClownFundamentals

The free agent logic needs some work. You've also got too many guys demanding contracts that are way out of line with where anyone would reasonably value them at.

Last offseason there was a life long minor league 2B in my universe, who wanted 3 years and 18 mil per. Lasted I checked he was still a free agent. We're now in August of the next season.

[PSUColonel]

Is this issue only affecting historical seasons, or MLB setup also?

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Is this issue only affecting historical seasons, or MLB setup also?

My league is a fictional league, so that probably means this is a universal issue across any mode of play. I have seen similar problems on occasion with historical leagues, but never with as many players as I'm seeing this time.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

My league is a fictional league, so that probably means this is a universal issue across any mode of play. I have seen similar problems on occasion with historical leagues, but never with as many players as I'm seeing this time.

I do wonder again though what other factors in settings, league structure and rules, etc., might be leading to this outcome. I understand that several people have reported seeing this and across different types of leagues, but since you've brought this up I have paid special attention to this in my own fictional league (just looked again today, as the current season is heading towards mid-May) and I'm just not seeing what other people are seeing. Everything looks as it should.
So I hope that this can be figured out, but I would suggest it probably isn't universal as much as a problem many have in common for unknown reasons.

[Bobbyraz49]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

So I'm just at the end of the first week of the Spring Training exhibition season schedule and I started thinking about this thread and decided to check and see what free agents remained unsigned.

Here are the top rated as of yet unsigned free agents:

Attachment 743858

The two catchers- Spencer Wilson and Kevin Curtis- are both very fine players and should be signed by someone soon I would hope. (I may be a bit biased as they both formerly played for my team in this league, but they both are particularly strong defensively and while Wilson is a high work ethic, low greed guy Curtis has in the past been a Fan Favorite with great leadership and work ethic.) The second baseman, Rob Bello, is a Fan Favorite and an excellent defensive player, but a weak hitter. The older players here (Nick Haran, David Beane) are probably a bit over-rated due to past exploits. There is a great defensive shortstop with little bat in Jimmy DeWing and a decent bat, no field shortstop in Danny Denison.
There are certainly a few other players a bit lower on the list (not shown) who could play roles on clubs and will likely eventually get signed.

What surprises me is the lack of premium relief pitchers who have gone into Spring Training still unsigned. That seems to be a common thing in OOTP (as it is, at least somewhat, in MLB) but this year none of that at all in my fictional league.

Anyway, just sharing this with you Charlie Hough in case it is interesting to you at all. Just one league, just one season, but it matches what I've been seeing in this fictional league. Which is to say that I'm not seeing the rather concerning pattern you have in your league.

EDIT: And the very next day Haran signs a 1-year deal with our arch-rival.

Is there a reason why some player's names are in all capital letters ?

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Bobbyraz49

Is there a reason why some player's names are in all capital letters ?

They are on short lists

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by Bobbyraz49

Is there a reason why some player's names are in all capital letters ?

Yes, what CBeisbol said.