1990 replay - Fragile pitchers EVERYWHERE!

beepollen · 11-30-2020, 04:04 PM

During this replay, I've got the Dodgers atop the standings despite a rash of injuries to my rotation. Then, I notice other teams' pitchers are getting hurt. Dropping like flies, tbh. I check the Injury Proneness of my guys - they're all listed as Fragile! Then I check the same for my entire organization - all Fragile! The kicker: I look at the list of all MLB pitchers, and find one Durable guy (Roger Mason, we salute you), three who are Wrecked, and everyone else is Fragile! Whaaaaaaat?!

So, what setting(s) have I tripped over here? Because this is like Dr. Frank Jobe wished upon the monkey's paw for "more business than I can handle."

FWIW, I've had the Injury Frequency as Normal (OOTP Classic) and Pitcher Stamina as Normal.

Help!

Charlie Hough · 11-30-2020, 05:15 PM

I can't guarantee that this is the cause of your problem or that this will fix it, but there was some discussion of a similar problem with a historical game from three versions ago. See if OOTP Developments' advice from that thread fixes your issue. There was a bug in the game involving this, and I wonder if it's managed to survive to the present day.

beepollen · 11-30-2020, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

I can't guarantee that this is the cause of your problem or that this will fix it, but there was some discussion of a similar problem with a historical game from two versions ago. See if OOTP Developments' advice from that thread fixes your issue. There was a bug in the game involving this, and I wonder if it's managed to survive to the present day.

Holy cow! That's exactly what's happening, down to the 160 proneness ratings!

However, I tried the suggested re-calc - and now literally everyone is Fragile. (Sorry, Mr. Mason.)

Now what?

beepollen · 11-30-2020, 07:04 PM

OK, I got the suggestion to work. Prolly will junk the league and start over, through.

Charlie Hough · 11-30-2020, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beepollen

OK, I got the suggestion to work. Prolly will junk the league and start over, through.

Yes, it's a good idea to run test simulations and validate that everything works properly before you invest time and energy in a new league. There are so many options and available mods for OOTP that it can take some time to sort out the exact settings to produce the results you want.

beepollen · 12-01-2020, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

Yes, it's a good idea to run test simulations and validate that everything works properly before you invest time and energy in a new league. There are so many options and available mods for OOTP that it can take some time to sort out the exact settings to produce the results you want.

As far as I can tell, the trigger is the Neutralized Stats option. Use that, and it all goes to hell.

01010010 · 12-05-2020, 04:19 PM

Not sure if this is of any help, but I was the OP of the original thread regarding this bug. I had some PMs with Marcus about it. For informational purposes, I’ll post the relevant parts of the discussion below. Good luck.

Btw, as far as I know, this is only a historical league issue.

————

PM with Marcus Aug 29, 2018:

Me: 1. For every player in the game, the ratings (1-200) for overall proneness, back proneness, and arm proneness are always the same. The only rating that ever changes is legs proneness. I consider this a bug because (a) there's no logical reason that the overall/back/arm ratings should always be identical (b) I can't think of anything special about leg proneness that would require it to be the only value that ever does change.

Marcus: 1) The overall rating is always initially the average of the other prone ratings, and since we do not know if players missed time due to what kind of injury, they are all the same, unless they get generated randomly, which is what we do for rookie import and minor league players.

Me: 2. I also think there is a bug in calculating overall proneness. I would think the overall proneness ratings would be some kind of calculation based on the back/leg/arm values. Since the overall proneness is always the same whether the leg proneness is 1 or 200, it's clearly not taking the three values into account, which makes it a completely superfluous rating.

Marcus: 2) The overall rating no longer is the average rating of all proneness after injuries change a specific proneness. I know this is confusing, but it's how it was designed to work. For example when a player has a bad leg injury, his leg proneness goes up 60 points, so does his overall proneness (up to 200).

Me: 3. I think there is a bug in assigning values to batters compared to pitchers. Almost every batter (probably 90% or more) has overall/back/arm ratings of 1, while the leg proneness always varies between 1-200. In contrast, there is always variation with overall/back/arm ratings with pitchers. Some are rated 1-1-1 with a different value for leg proneness while others are rated 35-35-35 or x-x-x or y-y-y with a different values for leg proneness.

Marcus: 3) Right, got it. Fixed. Leg proness was always random.

Me: 4. The injury values are not accurately based on real life, they seem to be random. I have feeling that this is not a bug, but rather a function of lack of data. I don't know whether anybody has ever tracked every injury to every player in history, and even if so, whether that would be included in whichever file the historical players stats and ratings are pulled from.

Marcus: 4) No, it's only random for imported rookies and some minor leaguers. For MLB regulars, it is based on the single import / recalc year (recalc period is ignored). If batters have played less than 20 games that year, they get a 160. For pitchers it's 10 games. ... what you see is the bug with the leg proneness, which is now fixed for the next patch.

————-

beepollen · 12-05-2020, 06:42 PM

Thanks for passing this along. Although, tbh, I'm not quite sure what to do with this knowledge. Maybe I'll just avoid the Neutralized Stats option from now on.

11-30-2020, 04:04 PM	#1
beepollen All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 914	1990 replay - Fragile pitchers EVERYWHERE! During this replay, I've got the Dodgers atop the standings despite a rash of injuries to my rotation. Then, I notice other teams' pitchers are getting hurt. Dropping like flies, tbh. I check the Injury Proneness of my guys - they're all listed as Fragile! Then I check the same for my entire organization - all Fragile! The kicker: I look at the list of all MLB pitchers, and find one Durable guy (Roger Mason, we salute you), three who are Wrecked, and everyone else is Fragile! Whaaaaaaat?! So, what setting(s) have I tripped over here? Because this is like Dr. Frank Jobe wished upon the monkey's paw for "more business than I can handle." FWIW, I've had the Injury Frequency as Normal (OOTP Classic) and Pitcher Stamina as Normal. Help!

11-30-2020, 05:15 PM	#2
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,640	I can't guarantee that this is the cause of your problem or that this will fix it, but there was some discussion of a similar problem with a historical game from three versions ago. See if OOTP Developments' advice from that thread fixes your issue. There was a bug in the game involving this, and I wonder if it's managed to survive to the present day. Last edited by Charlie Hough; 11-30-2020 at 07:33 PM.

11-30-2020, 07:04 PM	#4
beepollen All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 914	OK, I got the suggestion to work. Prolly will junk the league and start over, through.

12-05-2020, 04:19 PM	#7
01010010 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: N/A Posts: 102	Not sure if this is of any help, but I was the OP of the original thread regarding this bug. I had some PMs with Marcus about it. For informational purposes, I’ll post the relevant parts of the discussion below. Good luck. Btw, as far as I know, this is only a historical league issue. ———— PM with Marcus Aug 29, 2018: Me: 1. For every player in the game, the ratings (1-200) for overall proneness, back proneness, and arm proneness are always the same. The only rating that ever changes is legs proneness. I consider this a bug because (a) there's no logical reason that the overall/back/arm ratings should always be identical (b) I can't think of anything special about leg proneness that would require it to be the only value that ever does change. Marcus: 1) The overall rating is always initially the average of the other prone ratings, and since we do not know if players missed time due to what kind of injury, they are all the same, unless they get generated randomly, which is what we do for rookie import and minor league players. Me: 2. I also think there is a bug in calculating overall proneness. I would think the overall proneness ratings would be some kind of calculation based on the back/leg/arm values. Since the overall proneness is always the same whether the leg proneness is 1 or 200, it's clearly not taking the three values into account, which makes it a completely superfluous rating. Marcus: 2) The overall rating no longer is the average rating of all proneness after injuries change a specific proneness. I know this is confusing, but it's how it was designed to work. For example when a player has a bad leg injury, his leg proneness goes up 60 points, so does his overall proneness (up to 200). Me: 3. I think there is a bug in assigning values to batters compared to pitchers. Almost every batter (probably 90% or more) has overall/back/arm ratings of 1, while the leg proneness always varies between 1-200. In contrast, there is always variation with overall/back/arm ratings with pitchers. Some are rated 1-1-1 with a different value for leg proneness while others are rated 35-35-35 or x-x-x or y-y-y with a different values for leg proneness. Marcus: 3) Right, got it. Fixed. Leg proness was always random. Me: 4. The injury values are not accurately based on real life, they seem to be random. I have feeling that this is not a bug, but rather a function of lack of data. I don't know whether anybody has ever tracked every injury to every player in history, and even if so, whether that would be included in whichever file the historical players stats and ratings are pulled from. Marcus: 4) No, it's only random for imported rookies and some minor leaguers. For MLB regulars, it is based on the single import / recalc year (recalc period is ignored). If batters have played less than 20 games that year, they get a 160. For pitchers it's 10 games. ... what you see is the bug with the leg proneness, which is now fixed for the next patch. ————-

12-05-2020, 06:42 PM	#8
beepollen All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 914	Thanks for passing this along. Although, tbh, I'm not quite sure what to do with this knowledge. Maybe I'll just avoid the Neutralized Stats option from now on.