Starters vs Relievers -- Stamina vs Recovery

[NakedReporta]

With the myriad ways managers are now using their pitching staffs that would have been decidedly unorthodox a few years ago -- what with openers, "starters" that don't actually start, stoppers, and the like -- it seems to me as if the time has come to dispense with separate ratings for starters and relievers and to just rate pitchers by their pitching ability against all other pitchers.



And as for pitching usage, I would advocate having two ratings in place of one -- Stamina (how long a pitcher might be expected to pitch in a given game) and Recovery (how long it takes a pitcher to recover after an appearance). For example, a starter like Jason deGrom might have a 70 Stamina and a 30 Recovery, which would mean you could expect to have him go deep in a game, but he'll take four days to recover fully. On the flip side, an Edwin Diaz might have a 30 Stamina but a 70 Recovery.



Game usage percentage would still come into play and affect both ratings, in terms of tiredness. And I think the game does this already to some degree. But I think the big difference is that we would be able to see a pitcher adapt from a starter to a reliever and vice-versa if, say, we bring up a minor league starter and end up putting him in a relief role. His Stamina might slowly decrease as his Recovery increased as he adapted to his new role. Same with moving an aging starter into a middle relief role.


It's just a thought.

[pgjocki]

For me it all depends on if I'm simming or playing out the games. When I sim and check in I'm always frustrated that my bullpen is wrecked with every guy exhausted but when I manage I pace guys and always have at least guy with 100% rest.

I've also found that going with a 13 man staff always me to dominate the AI as usually when all else is equal over a series the team with the fresher pen wins.

I have to use house rules to stop that as I feel I can get an extra 2-3 wins a month.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by NakedReporta

With the myriad ways managers are now using their pitching staffs that would have been decidedly unorthodox a few years ago -- what with openers, "starters" that don't actually start, stoppers, and the like -- it seems to me as if the time has come to dispense with separate ratings for starters and relievers and to just rate pitchers by their pitching ability against all other pitchers.



And as for pitching usage, I would advocate having two ratings in place of one -- Stamina (how long a pitcher might be expected to pitch in a given game) and Recovery (how long it takes a pitcher to recover after an appearance). For example, a starter like Jason deGrom might have a 70 Stamina and a 30 Recovery, which would mean you could expect to have him go deep in a game, but he'll take four days to recover fully. On the flip side, an Edwin Diaz might have a 30 Stamina but a 70 Recovery.



Game usage percentage would still come into play and affect both ratings, in terms of tiredness. And I think the game does this already to some degree. But I think the big difference is that we would be able to see a pitcher adapt from a starter to a reliever and vice-versa if, say, we bring up a minor league starter and end up putting him in a relief role. His Stamina might slowly decrease as his Recovery increased as he adapted to his new role. Same with moving an aging starter into a middle relief role.


It's just a thought.

Yes
Nearly perfect

[CBeisbol]

So, you don't think that this should happen?

[Rain King]

I definitely agree with that.

My thought has always been to have some kind of "Stretched Out" rating. So, a player would need to transitioned to a starter role and that rating would increase or decrease based on use-age.

[CBeisbol]

I mean, it could just be "Stamina", right

After a layoff, or time spent pitching in relief, like above, stamina would decrease (with a still high potential) and could quickly increase.

That might be easier, but I like the original idea in terms of realness

[Rain King]

I feel like Stamina gives you an idea of what the pitcher will be like when completely stretched out, but you need to have multiple ratings to have that full picture.

[Garlon]

Pitcher usage is currently excellent in historical games. The stamina rating is based on their real IPouts per GS for starting pitchers and IPouts per relief appearance for relief pitchers. Right now the game designates a pitcher a starter if at least 40% of their games pitched were games started. Relief pitcher recovery time is also modeled extremely well currently in the game.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Rain King

I feel like Stamina gives you an idea of what the pitcher will be like when completely stretched out, but you need to have multiple ratings to have that full picture.

That would be potential stamina.
And then there'd be a current stamina
As the pitcher was stretched out, their current stamina would get closer to their potential stamina.

I don't think this is the best way to deal with the issue, but it's a way. Currently it's not really being dealt with at all.

Again, the OP sounds like a winning idea to me

[Rain King]

Yeah, we can quibble about the way it should be handled. But the biggest thing right now is that there is no adjustment by the player needed at all as they move between pitching roles and any handling of that would be a major improvement.

I think it would be fairly easy to put a mechanic in that works well enough for this. I think the much more difficult part is adjusting the AI to handle this correctly from a management standpoint.