which ratings

[flyball]

so 'm looking at a pitcher who has stuff-6 movement-13 control-15 but all his pitches are at 5 or 6 so how can he have high ratings in the stuff, movement and control and have horrible individual rating s but the pitches ratings so low. i don't understand what to really look at. do i look at the stuff/movement/control more or the pitches themselves. if movement has high ratings wouldn't that mean that he has a good fastball, curve, and sikner? please help me understand this...so i have seen this many times so i'm not sure what to really look at, do i look at stuff/movement/control more or should i look at the pitches themselves when trying to choose a good pitcher?

[BaseballNewsNow]

Originally Posted by flyball

so 'm looking at a pitcher who has stuff-6 movement-13 control-15 but all his pitches are at 5 or 6 so how can he have high ratings in the stuff, movement and control and have horrible individual rating s but the pitches ratings so low. i don't understand what to really look at. do i look at the stuff/movement/control more or the pitches themselves. if movement has high ratings wouldn't that mean that he has a good fastball, curve, and sikner? please help me understand this...so i have seen this many times so i'm not sure what to really look at, do i look at stuff/movement/control more or should i look at the pitches themselves when trying to choose a good pitcher?

You said that he doesn’t have a good stuff rating - as demonstrated with his 6 in that area. Think about Kyle Hendricks: good movement and amazing control by none of his pitches are that good - it’s the combo of movement and command. As demonstrated by his stuff: he doesn’t have good individual pitches.

[CBeisbol]

Stuff = strikeouts
Movement = avoiding homeruns
Control = avoiding walks

So this pitcher won't walk too many, won't give up too many home runs and won't strike out many.

This pitcher doesn't have good individual pitches and doesn't have good stuff. If they won't strike out many, that's a lot of balls in play that can go for hits. Unless they are a ground ball pitcher lots of those hits will be for extra bases. If you have this pitcher you will want a good defense.


I look mainly at the Stuff/Movement/Control (including L/R) ratings to determine pitcher quality. Then at GB/FB and velocity. And lastly, if at all, individual pitches.

[ablobj]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Stuff = strikeouts
Movement = avoiding homeruns
Control = avoiding walks

So this pitcher won't walk too many, won't give up too many home runs and won't strike out many.

This pitcher doesn't have good individual pitches and doesn't have good stuff. If they won't strike out many, that's a lot of balls in play that can go for hits. Unless they are a ground ball pitcher lots of those hits will be for extra bases. If you have this pitcher you will want a good defense.


I look mainly at the Stuff/Movement/Control (including L/R) ratings to determine pitcher quality. Then at GB/FB and velocity. And lastly, if at all, individual pitches.

Have you noticed if GB, FB, and velocity make any difference? Honestly, I never really look at those things...I just look at stuff, movement, control, and, if it's a starter, stamina.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by ablobj

Have you noticed if GB, FB, and velocity make any difference? Honestly, I never really look at those things...I just look at stuff, movement, control, and, if it's a starter, stamina.

Yes

Velocity correlates with stuff. As velocity goes up or down, so does stuff.
(This is what I've read. I've never checked it myself). Two pitches with identical pitch ratings, the one who throws harder will have higher stuff and more strike outs.

GB and FB matters. Largely for defensive purposes. Also for stadium effects.

As for movement, there's a link in my signature for User Studies and a link there for Movement.

[Timofmars]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Velocity correlates with stuff. As velocity goes up or down, so does stuff.

...

GB and FB matters. Largely for defensive purposes. Also for stadium effects.

As you say, velocity is already factored into stuff, so there's no need to double-count it. Also, I recall velocity gives a greater stuff boost to certain pitches (certainly fastball, if not others as well), so perhaps it could be a small consideration that a prospect with a good fastball could improve their current and potential abilities quite a bit if their velocity increases (randomly?).

Regarding GB/FB, according to just what the player editor shows, more GB% does cause a bit fewer homeruns by keeping the ball in the park, as well as getting a few more outs (from the HR staying in the park and having a chance to result in an out. But the editor indicates nothing about extra base hits being affected by GB percentage since doesn't show XBH information. I also haven't seen data on this. But I wouldn't just assume that GB% reduces XBHs, as I'm not sure how a batter's gap rating interacts with the pitcher.

Also, IIRC, GB% of the pitcher is not reflected in any ratings, so it seems to be a bonus to have a GB pitcher, so I think it is worth looking at when evaluating a player. But the GB% is an exact number in the editor, while the profile description is just 5 possibilities (Extreme GB, GB, Neutral, FB, Extreme FB) so you can only know that the exact percent is just within a certain range by the profile description.