Can Playoff Games Be Manually Scheduled for Promotion/Relegation Ties?

Eugene Church · 10-12-2020, 10:17 PM

I have a tie between two teams for fourth place... I need to have a single-game playoff between the two teams to decide... the winner will finish fourth... the loser will finish fifth and be demoted.

I read the OOTP21 manual and it's not clear to me if I can schedule a playoff game... the game apparently will not automatically schedule a playoff game... it uses its own tiebreaker system.

Can I manually add a playoff game and have the two tied teams play?

Here's what the manual states:

By default, the teams selected for promotion or relegation will be determined via winning percentage (including tie-breaking via head-to-head record if needed) and the teams qualifying will be indicated by a (P) or a (R) in the league standings screen.

Once the season is over for all leagues and the offseason starts, there will be a new league event a couple of days after the last league's season ends called "Team Promotion & Relegation." When that occurs, the game will automatically move teams in case you have the "Enable automatic promotion & relegation" checked in the PR settings. Please note though, the game will NOT schedule any tie-breaker games.

That last statement may mean that I cannot schedule a playoff game between the two teams.
... in this case I would just manually choose one of the two teams to relegate.

Would appreciate your help, advice and knowledge.

If I can't schedule a playoff game:
I can devise my own tiebreaker rules.
The two teams split their games during the season.
One team outscored the other 24 to 20.

Anybody know for sure if you cannot schedule a playoff game?

Eugene Church · 10-12-2020, 10:23 PM

Here is a screenshot of my league... the AI has the team selected to relegate that scored fewer runs in head-to-head competition.
Please note I just play one game every Sunday in this league... only 20-game season.

Jackson outscored Dutton 24-20 in 4 games.. they each won 2 games.

Do you think that was intentionally or just a coincidence?

Will the AI go to runs scored to determine relegation and promotion?

Matt Arnold · 10-12-2020, 10:41 PM

Yeah, I think runs in head to head is one of the tiebreakers, so if you want to just use that, you can.

You can't schedule a playoff game. You could schedule a regular season game, although the teams won't necessarily act like it's a playoff game. And obviously may stats from that match would count to regular season stats.

Eugene Church · 10-13-2020, 02:30 PM

Matt, if I understand you correctly, I can schedule a tiebreaking game if I make it a regular season game?... and that the game stats would be a part ot the regular stats?

I just cannot make it a playoff game... the AI will not allow that.

Correct?

Matt Arnold · 10-13-2020, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugene Church

Matt, if I understand you correctly, I can schedule a tiebreaking game if I make it a regular season game?... and that the game stats would be a part ot the regular stats?

I just cannot make it a playoff game... the AI will not allow that.

Correct?

Yes, I think that should work.

Boomcoach · 10-13-2020, 03:01 PM

IIRC, in MLB, the tie breaker game is part of the regular season and stats count for the regular season, so this would make sense.

Eugene Church · 10-17-2020, 08:04 PM

Sorry to be such a pest, but before I advanced to the end of the regular season, I would like to know for sure that the tiebreaker system will work... I don't want to mess up or corrupt my league... or corrupt the league history... If necessary, I will schedule playoff games to avoid this... it ain't no big deal to schedule playoff games.

When two teams split the regular season games, will another tiebreaker kick in?

Will the league title or promotion/relegation be determined on runs scored in head-to-head games?

If the teams are tied in runs scored, too... is there another tiebreaker?

How deep into tiebreakers does the game go?

Also, how does this affect the League History?... will the league history indicate the team that won the tiebreakers as the league champion?

Eugene Church · 10-17-2020, 08:38 PM

If I don't get a definitive answer to my question, I will just schedule playoff games.

This may be the best solution.

Cryomaniac · 10-18-2020, 12:41 PM

This brings up the point that it would be cool to get more options for tiebreakers. Or, at least, let us choose what "non-game tiebreakers" are used.

Matt Arnold · 10-18-2020, 02:00 PM

I know I've mentioned the tiebreak criteria before on the forums, but we follow a sort of modified version of the MLB rules/WBC rules. So after the base record, we use:
-record +/- (in case tied teams have different # games but same win pct)
-head to head record
-intra-division record (ie. record vs your own division)
-intraleague record (removing interleague games)
-run differential in head to head games
-run differential in all games
-runs allowed per inning
-earned runs allowed per inning
-flip a coin

Eugene Church · 10-18-2020, 02:42 PM

Thank you, Matt, Lukas and all of the entire crew... I hope all of you are millionaires now.

Take care of our beloved OOTPB.

Much appreciate your definitive answer.

All of the OOTP Development Team are to praised to the highest for giving us such a great game and such great customer support.

Hrycaj · 10-18-2020, 08:46 PM

In a related question for Eugene or anyone else. Do you feel the game understands promotion/relegation? Specifically, does it understand that a team priority should be to stay in the highest league possible? I have never really used the feature in a save but I would like to down the road if I knew that teams actively attempt to avoid relegation. Thanks for any reply’s on this.

Eugene Church · 10-18-2020, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hrycaj

In a related question for Eugene or anyone else. Do you feel the game understands promotion/relegation? Specifically, does it understand that a team priority should be to stay in the highest league possible? I have never really used the feature in a save but I would like to down the road if I knew that teams actively attempt to avoid relegation. Thanks for any reply’s on this.

Sorry, wish I could help you, Hrycaj.
I am a novice when it comes to promotion and relegation.
I'm not sure, but I think I remembering seeing that there was some setting that would take that into consideration.

You might get better response in posting your own thread... I think this thread is just about dead now... not too many people will look at it.

That's a good question... pose it in your own thread... I think you will get much better response to your question.

I totally control all my teams' roster, so I am aware of the promotion and relegation possibilities and strategies... I don't let the AI do anything in my promotion and relegation league.

Cryomaniac · 10-19-2020, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

I know I've mentioned the tiebreak criteria before on the forums, but we follow a sort of modified version of the MLB rules/WBC rules. So after the base record, we use:
-record +/- (in case tied teams have different # games but same win pct)
-head to head record
-intra-division record (ie. record vs your own division)
-intraleague record (removing interleague games)
-run differential in head to head games
-run differential in all games
-runs allowed per inning
-earned runs allowed per inning
-flip a coin

Thanks.

It would be quite cool for fictional leagues to be able to choose which of those get used, and or the order of them.

WestCoastGuy · 10-19-2020, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hrycaj

In a related question for Eugene or anyone else. Do you feel the game understands promotion/relegation? Specifically, does it understand that a team priority should be to stay in the highest league possible? I have never really used the feature in a save but I would like to down the road if I knew that teams actively attempt to avoid relegation. Thanks for any reply’s on this.

From the manual: "During the season, the presence of promotion and relegation will change how the AI reacts and sets its team focus. For example, when in danger of being relegated, most teams will switch to win-now in order to avoid relegation at all cost, unless they already have given up and switched to rebuild mode. In a game without relegation, teams that low in the standings will typically always go into rebuild mode."

https://manuals.ootpdevelopments.com...page=promotion

yuazda · 10-21-2020, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestCoastGuy

From the manual: "During the season, the presence of promotion and relegation will change how the AI reacts and sets its team focus. For example, when in danger of being relegated, most teams will switch to win-now in order to avoid relegation at all cost, unless they already have given up and switched to rebuild mode. In a game without relegation, teams that low in the standings will typically always go into rebuild mode."

https://manuals.ootpdevelopments.com...page=promotion

In my experience, this mostly seems to work well. I notice that the teams that sit just outside the danger zone tend to be the ones to go into win-now mode (e.g. bottom three are relegated in my leagues, the fourth- and fifth-worst teams in the standings are the ones that start making panic trades) whereas the worst teams tend to accept their fate. I'm seven seasons in so it could just be small sample size.

Anyway to answer Eugene's question, I schedule the tiebreaker games manually as regular season game 163s. They're actually a blast to watch, kind of like "loser leaves town" matches in pro wrestling.

Eugene Church · 10-21-2020, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuazda

In my experience, this mostly seems to work well. I notice that the teams that sit just outside the danger zone tend to be the ones to go into win-now mode (e.g. bottom three are relegated in my leagues, the fourth- and fifth-worst teams in the standings are the ones that start making panic trades) whereas the worst teams tend to accept their fate. I'm seven seasons in so it could just be small sample size.

Anyway to answer Eugene's question, I schedule the tiebreaker games manually as regular season game 163s. They're actually a blast to watch, kind of like "loser leaves town" matches in pro wrestling.

I just scheduled an additional regular season game... not a playoff game... and everything looks good so far... hope when I advance to the next season, all my history will be accurate.

BBGiovanni · 10-22-2020, 12:30 PM

Thanks everyone for an informative thread and EC in particular for reporting back

Eugene Church · 10-22-2020, 04:22 PM

So far, so good... the promotion/relegation event has shown up... everything is functioning fine so far... it's looking like it is going to be fine going to the next season.
I'm in the offseason right now.

It may a few days before I finishing recapping my league season, then I will advance to the next year and see if all of history is there.

Eugene Church · 04-24-2021, 05:28 PM

Sorry for not posting after recapping my league like I said I would.

My league history was accurate once I went to the new season.

Promotion/Relegation worked fine for me... but I play a very, very simple game... not complex at all.

10-12-2020, 10:17 PM	#1
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 36,084	Can Playoff Games Be Manually Scheduled for Promotion/Relegation Ties? I have a tie between two teams for fourth place... I need to have a single-game playoff between the two teams to decide... the winner will finish fourth... the loser will finish fifth and be demoted. I read the OOTP21 manual and it's not clear to me if I can schedule a playoff game... the game apparently will not automatically schedule a playoff game... it uses its own tiebreaker system. Can I manually add a playoff game and have the two tied teams play? Here's what the manual states: By default, the teams selected for promotion or relegation will be determined via winning percentage (including tie-breaking via head-to-head record if needed) and the teams qualifying will be indicated by a (P) or a (R) in the league standings screen. Once the season is over for all leagues and the offseason starts, there will be a new league event a couple of days after the last league's season ends called "Team Promotion & Relegation." When that occurs, the game will automatically move teams in case you have the "Enable automatic promotion & relegation" checked in the PR settings. Please note though, the game will NOT schedule any tie-breaker games. That last statement may mean that I cannot schedule a playoff game between the two teams. ... in this case I would just manually choose one of the two teams to relegate. Would appreciate your help, advice and knowledge. If I can't schedule a playoff game: I can devise my own tiebreaker rules. The two teams split their games during the season. One team outscored the other 24 to 20. Anybody know for sure if you cannot schedule a playoff game? Last edited by Eugene Church; 10-12-2020 at 10:27 PM.

10-12-2020, 10:23 PM	#2
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 36,084	Here is a screenshot of my league... the AI has the team selected to relegate that scored fewer runs in head-to-head competition. Please note I just play one game every Sunday in this league... only 20-game season. Jackson outscored Dutton 24-20 in 4 games.. they each won 2 games. Do you think that was intentionally or just a coincidence? Will the AI go to runs scored to determine relegation and promotion? Attached Images Last edited by Eugene Church; 10-12-2020 at 10:24 PM.

10-13-2020, 03:01 PM	#6
Boomcoach All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 846	IIRC, in MLB, the tie breaker game is part of the regular season and stats count for the regular season, so this would make sense. __________________

10-17-2020, 08:04 PM	#7
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 36,084	Sorry to be such a pest, but before I advanced to the end of the regular season, I would like to know for sure that the tiebreaker system will work... I don't want to mess up or corrupt my league... or corrupt the league history... If necessary, I will schedule playoff games to avoid this... it ain't no big deal to schedule playoff games. When two teams split the regular season games, will another tiebreaker kick in? Will the league title or promotion/relegation be determined on runs scored in head-to-head games? If the teams are tied in runs scored, too... is there another tiebreaker? How deep into tiebreakers does the game go? Also, how does this affect the League History?... will the league history indicate the team that won the tiebreakers as the league champion? Last edited by Eugene Church; 10-17-2020 at 08:08 PM.

10-18-2020, 12:41 PM	#9
Cryomaniac Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hucknall, Notts, UK Posts: 4,902	This brings up the point that it would be cool to get more options for tiebreakers. Or, at least, let us choose what "non-game tiebreakers" are used. __________________

10-12-2020, 10:41 PM	#3
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,914	Yeah, I think runs in head to head is one of the tiebreakers, so if you want to just use that, you can. You can't schedule a playoff game. You could schedule a regular season game, although the teams won't necessarily act like it's a playoff game. And obviously may stats from that match would count to regular season stats.

10-13-2020, 02:30 PM	#4
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 36,084	Matt, if I understand you correctly, I can schedule a tiebreaking game if I make it a regular season game?... and that the game stats would be a part ot the regular stats? I just cannot make it a playoff game... the AI will not allow that. Correct?

10-17-2020, 08:38 PM	#8
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 36,084	If I don't get a definitive answer to my question, I will just schedule playoff games. This may be the best solution.

10-18-2020, 02:00 PM	#10
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,914	I know I've mentioned the tiebreak criteria before on the forums, but we follow a sort of modified version of the MLB rules/WBC rules. So after the base record, we use: -record +/- (in case tied teams have different # games but same win pct) -head to head record -intra-division record (ie. record vs your own division) -intraleague record (removing interleague games) -run differential in head to head games -run differential in all games -runs allowed per inning -earned runs allowed per inning -flip a coin

10-18-2020, 02:42 PM	#11
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 36,084	Thank you, Matt, Lukas and all of the entire crew... I hope all of you are millionaires now. Take care of our beloved OOTPB. Much appreciate your definitive answer. All of the OOTP Development Team are to praised to the highest for giving us such a great game and such great customer support.

10-18-2020, 08:46 PM	#12
Hrycaj All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,724	In a related question for Eugene or anyone else. Do you feel the game understands promotion/relegation? Specifically, does it understand that a team priority should be to stay in the highest league possible? I have never really used the feature in a save but I would like to down the road if I knew that teams actively attempt to avoid relegation. Thanks for any reply’s on this. __________________ Click on my signature to read about the great game of baseball in Normington.

10-22-2020, 12:30 PM	#18
BBGiovanni All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Republic of California Posts: 1,910	Thanks everyone for an informative thread and EC in particular for reporting back __________________ Let's Go (San Jose) Giants, Let's Go Mets! Current Project: WBAT/AABBA: Organized Base Ball And the "New Normal" World Baseball Aid Tournament 2023 trophy round underway!

10-22-2020, 04:22 PM	#19
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 36,084	So far, so good... the promotion/relegation event has shown up... everything is functioning fine so far... it's looking like it is going to be fine going to the next season. I'm in the offseason right now. It may a few days before I finishing recapping my league season, then I will advance to the next year and see if all of history is there.

04-24-2021, 05:28 PM	#20
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 36,084	Sorry for not posting after recapping my league like I said I would. My league history was accurate once I went to the new season. Promotion/Relegation worked fine for me... but I play a very, very simple game... not complex at all.