Prefect League has become cheezie-fest

PlayBall2020 · 10-12-2020, 06:43 PM

Nearly all teams have cheezie ballparks, lineups and strats. Is this really what OOTP wants the supposed elite level of its PT game to be? Not everyone can sit in front of the PC and micromanage 162 games.

Meanwhile, tournament mode uses standard parks and and only default defensive positions.

This seems backwards to me.

Fabtron7 · 10-12-2020, 06:59 PM

Strategy at the highest level... what a disgrace.

dkgo · 10-12-2020, 07:05 PM

its always better to have an extreme park, probably part of the reason why those teams are in perfect in the first place

QuantaCondor · 10-12-2020, 07:06 PM

Sure, why not? The best teams at the highest level are going to be finding every edge they can get. Roster micromanagement, strong builds that match park factors to the pitchers/batters, active and passive pseudoing; it's a showcase of the best techniques the best players have found.

Not every team micros either. In fact, I'd say less than a quarter of teams do any kind of regular micro, and probably only half the teams really touch the roster much at all during the regular season (including last week's WS winner who I know doesn't do heavy micromanagement).

But you gotta keep pace. You're going to see everything up here.

PlayBall2020 · 10-12-2020, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabtron7

Strategy at the highest level... what a disgrace.

Cheeze is a strat?!

dkgo · 10-12-2020, 09:05 PM

The all-lefty one inning SP staff that abuses broken depth charts is cheese. Simply tailoring a park to a team is what you are supposed to do.

api312 · 10-12-2020, 09:21 PM

I actually think people are platooning less up here this year in response to the popularization of pseudo-openers. Less teams I feel able to run that strat against this week.

HRBaker · 10-12-2020, 10:09 PM

Ballpark manipulation should be voided in PT. Period.

Maxfire5 · 10-12-2020, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRBaker

Ballpark manipulation should be voided in PT. Period.

Because the Yankees haven't manipulated their ballpark to their benefit? Or the Royals didn't build around speed/defense in the 80s cause of the turf? Ballpark manipulation is 100% normal. Ballparks in the MLB aren't all standard. Teams build their rosters based on their ballpark.

If you're going to have issues, take issues with the pseudo opener stuff since it effectively tricks the AI into placing a lineup that isn't suited to the park, since it's not treated as a true opener/follower.

But to the OP's point, strategy at the highest level is what will set people apart. Even in tourneys, there are strategies. Full righty SPs with lefty RPs, vice versa. It has it's benefits.

dkgo · 10-12-2020, 11:03 PM

I will say it would be way better if you had to actually use the ballpark dimensions instead of just easily applying a flat multiplier to every left handed hitter regardless of being a heavy pull flyballer or all field spray hitter. Some these actual parks must look like a salvador dali painting

HRBaker · 10-13-2020, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

I will say it would be way better if you had to actually use the ballpark dimensions instead of just easily applying a flat multiplier to every left handed hitter regardless of being a heavy pull flyballer or all field spray hitter. Some these actual parks must look like a salvador dali painting

Exactly. If you want justification for my comment - try and picture what these "parks" look like... Make parks adjustments reflect reality = What can you change? The height and distance of the fence. That's it.

This idea of changing the chances of various hits versus L/R based on a percentage is simply stupid.

Kushiel · 10-13-2020, 12:05 PM

I wish they would use real ballparks both new and historical for a pool we could choose from. Ballpark cards would be cool to collect. You choose one from the cards that you have collected. Just my druthers but nothing I expect.

benderguy1 · 10-13-2020, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushiel

I wish they would use real ballparks both new and historical for a pool we could choose from. Ballpark cards would be cool to collect. You choose one from the cards that you have collected. Just my druthers but nothing I expect.

I like that idea a lot! Ballpark cards would be fun! Might be a bit too much on the PT servers though.

tbonetim · 10-13-2020, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRBaker

Ballpark manipulation should be voided in PT. Period.

I sincerely desire that the developers make a much easier and more robust ballpark creator for OOTP22 (e.g. Earl Weaver Baseball 2...yes I'm old).

That said, it should be more regulated within PT leagues. Have I used the system, yes, but not to the extremes of others. While historically other real life teams have manipulated their ballparks to provide a home field advantage, they did begin to clamp down on it. Have at it with crazy field designs in offline play but designing stadiums that are way over the top is something I don't believe has a place in PT leagues.

MLB ballpark regulations listed below...
http://m.mlb.com/glossary/rules/fiel...struction%20in

OMGPuppies · 10-13-2020, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlayBall2020

Nearly all teams have cheezie ballparks, lineups and strats. Is this really what OOTP wants the supposed elite level of its PT game to be? Not everyone can sit in front of the PC and micromanage 162 games.

Meanwhile, tournament mode uses standard parks and and only default defensive positions.

This seems backwards to me.

Is there some deep meaning behind calling it Prefect League? Am I that obtuse that I can't understand it?

PlayBall2020 · 10-13-2020, 03:46 PM

at least half are cheeze just on ballpark factors alone without counting those using the pitch count opener/follower exploit

Catchthedamnball · 10-13-2020, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlayBall2020

at least half are cheeze just on ballpark factors alone without counting those using the pitch count opener/follower exploit

Ballpark factors are a core principle of squeezing the most value out of your roster. Optimizing your roster to fit a particular home park is sound, fundamental strategy. Not cheese.

chazzycat · 10-13-2020, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlayBall2020

at least half are cheeze just on ballpark factors alone without counting those using the pitch count opener/follower exploit

I'm curious. If park factor strategies are just cheese, what "valid" strategies, in your opinion, are left to differentiate between teams at the highest levels?

Keep in mind, everyone in PL has access to the same top-level cards.

Let's say all parks are mandated to be neutral, like tourneys. What would this theoretical PL look like? Would it not just end up with all teams looking exactly the same? How could it not?

But the strategy sliders! You say. That's where manager skill comes into play right?

Well outside a couple obvious things like employing shifts, and curbing the basestealing aggression for slow guys...there's really not a lot to gain from the sliders. I have spent quite a lot of time fiddling with various sliders and running the sim module, only to end up showing no difference at all. They are mostly window dressing outside the couple I mentioned.

Lineup optimization maybe? Ok...well folks have studied that extensively and lineups matter far less than people think. It comes out to just a handful of runs per season.

So yeah we are pretty much back at park-factor-strategies as the only real strategic tool in the game that actually moves the needle in a meaningful way. Take that away and we lose a substantial portion of the strategic depth available to us. Now all of a sudden there is 1 best option at each position, and everyone will go get that card (just like tourneys)

That sounds boring AF to me!

Don't get me wrong, there are valid arguments against crazy park factors from the realism perspective. 1.1 LHB AVG with .9 RHB AVG is not super realistic. But from a gameplay perspective....I feel strongly these customizable park factors are absolutely a good thing. The main reason being they make more cards viable, increasing diversity of team composition. "All teams look the same" is already one of the top (warranted) criticisms of PT21. Let's not make it 1000X worse please.

PlayBall2020 · 10-13-2020, 06:22 PM

When OOTP did the one major "eSport" event they've had to date, it was a Tournament with standard ballpark factors and default defensive positioning and rewarded with a elite, limited card. It was not boring and will not be boring if they do another.

eldur00 · 10-13-2020, 08:07 PM

What I wouldn't mind, and I'm sure I would be the only one liking this, is you are given a park when you create your team with random modifiers.
Then to piggy back on Kushiel's idea, you could eventually unlock different parks through cards. You would have the choice of keeping your free starter park and try to build a team that caters to it, or invest in a park that has modifiers that closely represent what you're looking for for your team. Maybe even make those park cards only purchasable with points to represent the cost of changing a stadium.

10-12-2020, 06:43 PM	#1
PlayBall2020 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 41	Prefect League has become cheezie-fest Nearly all teams have cheezie ballparks, lineups and strats. Is this really what OOTP wants the supposed elite level of its PT game to be? Not everyone can sit in front of the PC and micromanage 162 games. Meanwhile, tournament mode uses standard parks and and only default defensive positions. This seems backwards to me.

10-12-2020, 07:06 PM	#4
QuantaCondor All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 563	Sure, why not? The best teams at the highest level are going to be finding every edge they can get. Roster micromanagement, strong builds that match park factors to the pitchers/batters, active and passive pseudoing; it's a showcase of the best techniques the best players have found. Not every team micros either. In fact, I'd say less than a quarter of teams do any kind of regular micro, and probably only half the teams really touch the roster much at all during the regular season (including last week's WS winner who I know doesn't do heavy micromanagement). But you gotta keep pace. You're going to see everything up here. __________________ Former leader of BFF, the definitive competitive PT group for F2P players. DM for info F2P + restrictions. First F2P winner of PT21 Perfect League F2P + restrictions. New team -> PT title in 8 weeks

10-12-2020, 09:21 PM	#7
api312 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 23	I actually think people are platooning less up here this year in response to the popularization of pseudo-openers. Less teams I feel able to run that strat against this week. __________________

10-13-2020, 12:05 PM	#12
Kushiel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas Posts: 1,810	I wish they would use real ballparks both new and historical for a pool we could choose from. Ballpark cards would be cool to collect. You choose one from the cards that you have collected. Just my druthers but nothing I expect. __________________ *Favente Deo supero*

10-12-2020, 06:59 PM	#2
Fabtron7 All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 1,030	Strategy at the highest level... what a disgrace.

10-12-2020, 07:05 PM	#3
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	its always better to have an extreme park, probably part of the reason why those teams are in perfect in the first place

10-12-2020, 09:05 PM	#6
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	The all-lefty one inning SP staff that abuses broken depth charts is cheese. Simply tailoring a park to a team is what you are supposed to do.

10-12-2020, 10:09 PM	#8
HRBaker Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,361	Ballpark manipulation should be voided in PT. Period.

10-12-2020, 11:03 PM	#10
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	I will say it would be way better if you had to actually use the ballpark dimensions instead of just easily applying a flat multiplier to every left handed hitter regardless of being a heavy pull flyballer or all field spray hitter. Some these actual parks must look like a salvador dali painting

10-13-2020, 03:46 PM	#16
PlayBall2020 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 41	at least half are cheeze just on ballpark factors alone without counting those using the pitch count opener/follower exploit

10-13-2020, 06:22 PM	#19
PlayBall2020 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 41	When OOTP did the one major "eSport" event they've had to date, it was a Tournament with standard ballpark factors and default defensive positioning and rewarded with a elite, limited card. It was not boring and will not be boring if they do another.

10-13-2020, 08:07 PM	#20
eldur00 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 506	What I wouldn't mind, and I'm sure I would be the only one liking this, is you are given a park when you create your team with random modifiers. Then to piggy back on Kushiel's idea, you could eventually unlock different parks through cards. You would have the choice of keeping your free starter park and try to build a team that caters to it, or invest in a park that has modifiers that closely represent what you're looking for for your team. Maybe even make those park cards only purchasable with points to represent the cost of changing a stadium.