Babe Ruth, meet Juan Gonzalez - an experiment in time travel.

[Ankit]

If any of you remember the marketing pitches from FPS Pro Baseball '98, the one that excited me the most and prompted me to buy within hours of it being put on my local EB store's shelf was that 'past legends seen in today's parks". And then it mentioned Babe Ruth in Colorado and others... That and what another poster did here, Ruth in the 1980s, inspired me to put my favorite player, Juan Gonzalez, back in time and have him square off against the Babe. This thread is going to about the performances of these two, hope you enjoy it as much as I did simming through it.

We begin with the 1920 season, Ruth imports with an 8 for average and doubles, 12 for triples, 16 for homeruns, 15 for walks and 5 for strikeouts. He is 25 years old and has played in the big leagues for two seasons and has 40 career homeruns thus far. His talent levels are good for batting and doubles, brilliant for 3B, HR and BB, and Average for K.

Juan Gonzalez is imported from the 1993 season, when he hit 43 homeruns. He is 24 years old, has played for two seasons as well and has 70 career homeruns. His talents and ratings are as follows:
Hits and 2B - 7 (Good), 3B - 2 (Fair), HR - 12 (Brilliant), BB - 3 (Fair), and K - 5 (Average)

Babe is playing RF for the Yankees, while Juan will fill in at LF for the St. Louis Cardinals. Why the Cardinals? They had a weakness in LF and were a National League team. I wanted them in separate leagues to give them a chance to face each other in the WS and make things more interesting. Also, St. Louis was a bad team, despite having Rogers Hornsby.

Some other things to keep in mind. League Totals will be recalculated for historical accuracy and there will be free agency. Babe is currently signed through 1922 for $16.7 million. Juan is arbitration eligible but is being paid $3.7 million this year.

Up next the first season...

[Ankit]

Right from the start, Juan appeared to have difficulty adjusting to the new time period he was and struggled for the first half of the season, having only 11 homeruns at the AS Break. Ruth on the other hand, terrorized AL pitching from Day 1. He hit 10 in April, 5 in May and 15 in June for a total of 30 at the break. Juan found his stroke after break, hitting 13 in July and finished the 162 game schedule with an NL-record 40. Ruth never lost his stroke and finished with 72 homeruns! Their lines for 1920 (Bold means league leader):

Babe: 514 AB, 190 H, 35 2B, 1 3B, 72 HR, 160 RBI, 151 R, 176 BB, 142 K, .370 BA, .531 OBP, .862 SLG, 1.393 OPS
Juan: 584 AB, 165 H, 37 2B, 1 3B, 40 HR, 117 RBI, 99 R, 40 BB, 179 K, .283 BA, .345 OBP, .555 SLG, .900 OPS

Both made the AS teams and both won the league MVPs. Juan's Cardinals finished 76-86, 25 games behind the 1st place Giants. Ruth's Yankees (102-60) won the AL by one game and faced the New York Giants in the WS. Although the Yankees won the WS in 6 games, the highlight was Game 3. With the Yankees up 2 games to none, Ruth singlehandedly won Game 3 going 3 for 4, with 3 homeruns and drove in all 6 runs in the 6-5 Yankees win. He would contribute only a triple in the next 11 at-bats over 3 games, but for the series, he hit 4 HR and drove in 8 while hitting only .261.

[metsgeek]

I'm glad one of my threads inspired you....which reminds me, I really should finish it, huh??

I'll be following this with interest. Good luck to Juan Gone

[rogmax11]

Man, I love this kind of stuff! Keep it coming, please.

[Ankit]

The first of many exciting homerun races between the two took place this season. With Gonzalez being more comfortable in his new environment and his stoke in full form this was an exciting year for Juan Gone's fans. At the end of April, Juan was ahead of Ruth 9-8. Both repeated their April perfomances and at the end of May, Juan led the Babe 18-16 in the Homerun race. Babe regained the upper hand in June though by out-slugging Juan 11-8 and taking 27-26 lead heading into the AS Break. The race remained close at the end of July with the Babe ahead by 2 homeruns. This was the first time the Babe had ever been challenged this late into the season for the MLB homerun crown. As he always does, the Babe rose to the occassion in August, smashing 13 homeruns to Juan's 10. Having a 5 HR lead heading into the final month eased the pressure on Ruth as he hit 13 more to finish with 61. The pressure was too much for young Gonzo as he hit only 7 in the final month to finish with 50.

Both of them again won the MVP and made AS appearances. Yet again, though Ruth's Yankees were in the WS and Juan's Cards were not. Yankees faced the Giants again, but unlike last season, they lost in 6 games with the Babe hitting .190 (4 for 21) with only 1 HR. Babe's HR rating had by now creeped up to 17 and his 3B rating to 13. Despite the enormous amount of walks, his walks rating dropped from 15 to 13. The final lines for 1921 for both players:

Babe: 538 AB, 196 H, 41 2B, 14 3B, 61 HR, 163 RBI, 179 R, 179 BB, 128 K, .364 BA, .524 OBP, .833 SLG, 1.357 OPS
Juan: 619 AB, 209 H, 39 2B, 4 3B, 50 HR, 143 RBI, 120 R, 29 BB, 149 K, .338 BA, .375 OBP, .656 SLG, 1.031 OPS

Babe missed the RBI title by 1 to Happy Felsch's 164. Babe's 72 HR last season were 49 more than 2nd place George Sisler. His 61 this year were 37 more than Felsch's 24. Gonzalez had 21 more than Irish Meusel last year and 33 more than any of the 3 2nd place guys who had 17 each. Both players thus far have been the best players in their league. Ruth by a ton, Gonzalez by a little.

Up next 1922...

[Ankit]

A third straight MVP and AS appearance for both of them and yet another exciting homerun race. Cardinals fail to make post-season. Yawn... so, what's new? Yankees failed to make the WS... Ruth and Gonzalez will both be free-agents at the end of the season! Ok, so that isn't all that interesting, but the homerun race sure was. The only time I felt the way I did while seeing this race unfurl in front of me was 1998 when Sosa and McGwire provided the show. The race of 1922 was definitely unforgettable...

Juan came out blazing in April, blasting 14 and drving in 35. Ruth was out for 2 weeks due to an injury in the middle of April and finished with 6 homeruns in 13 games. A full month of May for both players saw Ruth club 11 and Juan clubbed 13 more to lead the Babe 27 to 17, two months in to the season. Could the baseball gods help Juan to his first homerun title?

No.. the gods displayed no favoritism as Juan was injured in the middle of June for 2 weeks and as a result had only 4 homeruns for the month and 31 for the season. This opened the door for Ruth to catch up but he came up a little short with only 9 for the month and trailed Juan 31 to 26 at the break. A determined Ruth came back with a vengeance in July hitting .434 and 13 homeruns with an OPS of 1.625 for the month. Juan was his usual self returning from the injury as he hit 10 despite missing a third week due to complications from the injury. Leading 41 to 39, Juan still looked as if he would edge out Ruth. He hit 14 homeruns in August and drove in 38 to finish with a career best 55 and still a whole month to go! The Babe tried to keep up but came up a little short with only 11 homeruns and trailed Juan by 5 with only a little over a month to go.

In a record setting performance, the Bambino dazzled the baseball world and made pitchers cry as 12 of his 28 hits rocketed over the fence for homeruns and trailed Juan Gonzalez 64 - 62 on September 29. Playing in Cleveland, the Babe continued his unearthly hitting by going 4 for 5 with 3 homeruns. For the first time all season, the Babe had more HR than Juan Gone... Neither of the two hit any more homeruns until October 3. Juan hit his 65th but Ruth came back with numbers 66 and 67 that same day to Now with the lead and all the confidence in the world, Babe, hit two more on October 3 to push the lead to 2, 67-65. The race was all but finished as Gonzalez just failed to find his stroke and finished with 66. Ruth hit 3 more to finish with 70. Another great race, another disappointing finish for Juan. The final stats for the season:

Babe: 504 AB, 188 H, 32 2B, 11 3B, 70 HR, 161 RBI, 167 R, 154 BB, 110 K, .373 BA, .519 OBP, .897 SLG, 1.416 OPS
Juan: 561 AB, 197 H, 33 2B, 2 3B, 66 HR, 171 RBI, 128 R, 37 BB, 133 K, .351 BA, .406 OBP, .770 SLG, 1.176 OPS

[Ankit]

Both players signed 1-year extensions and will continue on with their teams... Yet again, both missed the postseason. Yankees finished 4th, 16 games out while the Cardinals dropped 8 in a row and 9 of 10, to finish the season 1-game behind the Cubs in a monumental collapse. Again, both players won the MVP and made the AS team. And yes, there was another homerun race which went down to the final week of the season.

A fresh Juan took the early lead with 13 HR in April and 10 in May. The Babe started slow with 5 in April but came back with 13 in May to trail Juan 23-18 at the end of May. 11 HR in June for the Babe saw Juan's lead dwindle to 1 at the AS Break, 30-29. Gonzalez came back with 9 in July while Ruth cooled off and hit only 7 as Juan was ahead of Ruth by 3, heading into the August, 39-36. Both players were consistently hitting the ball out of the park in August with Gonzalez slamming 10 and Ruth with 11. With only a 2-homerun lead, 49-47, for Gonzalez and only a month and change to play, could Gonzalez hold on this time around?

Unlike last season, Gonzalez did not let down in September and continued to hit and had 59 with 10 games to play. But Ruth, was hot on his heels as well as he too had 10 homeruns in September with 10 games to play.

The magical date of September 29th was upon us again and yet again, Ruth worked his magic by clubbing 2 shots in Philadelphia to tie June Gone at 59. He took the lead the very next day in a 13-12 loss. On October 4th, Juan Gonzalez hit a homerun to tie Ruth but Ruth came right back that same day with one of his own. 5 games to play and Ruth led Juan 61-60.

The follow day Juan hit another one but this time Ruth could not match it and with 4 to play, both players had 61. No homeruns on the 7th of October, and only 3 games left to play for each.

Juan hit number 62 against the Boston Braves but Ruth was not going to let Gonzalez win the crown and hit 2 of his own the same day to take a 63-62 lead and two games remaining.

In a 14-4 rout of the St. Louis Browns, Ruth hit his 64th and last of the season. Gonzalez, mentally defeated and exhausted now, would go 0 for 8 in his final two games as Ruth, once again denied Gonzalez the Homerun Crown of Baseball.

Here are the totals for the season:
Babe: 535 AB, 197 H, 28 2B, 16 3B, 64 HR, 179 RBI (Sisler had 182), 157 R, 183 BB, 92 K, .368 BA, .530 OBP, .839 SLG, 1.369 OPS
Juan: 623 AB, 211 H, 44 2B, 4 3B, 62 HR, 168 RBI, 152 R, 49 BB, 150 K, .339 BA, .393 OBP, .721 SLG, 1.114 OPS

Is it just me or does this homerun race sound like Lakers-Kings playoff series of the past three years... Its been amazing to be able to witness this. I hope you guys are really enjoying it. Also, their talents and ratings have remained the same up till now.

[Ankit]

As a free agent, Babe Ruth was resigned by the Yankees who offered him $90 million over 5 years, the most paid to anybody in the history of the league. That record didn't last long however, as Juan Gonzalez went to the two-time NL champions, the Chicago Cubs, who offered him $106.5 million over 7 seasons!

Ruth paid dividends immediately as the Yankees once again returned to the World Series. The Cubs couldn't repeat as NL Champs as the New York Giants finished 12 games ahead of the 2nd place Cubbies. It would be the third time in a row that the Giants played the Yankees in the WS and like last time, the Giants disposed the Yankees quickly, in 5 games. Ruth once again had a dismal showing as he went 3 for 17 (.176 average) and no homeruns and just 2 RBI. After 3 WS trips, Mr. September, Babe Ruth, had a lifetime WS average of .213 and 5 HR in 61 At-bats. His OPS of.900 was 406 points less than his regular season OPS of 1.306.

The regular season was different though, as Ruth continued his insane hitting missing the triple crown by .004 in the batting average race. He hit .395 while Detroit's Chet Walker hit .399. He set career highs in batting average (.395), doubles (47), triples (17), RBI (183) and 54 homeruns enroute to another MVP and AS appearance.

Juan never recovered, psychologically, from the failure in the homerun race of last season and wound up with only 33 homeruns while missing a month due to a fractured hip. Although he led the NL in homeruns, he did not get the MVP or an AS selection, for the first time since arriving back in time. His only highlights came on July 29th, when he drove in 6 against the Phillies and the hit for a cycle on August 15 against Cincy. His hits rating had dropped from 7 to 6 as well.

Their lines for the year:
Babe: 555 AB, 219 H, 47 2B, 17 3B, 54 HR, 183 RBI, 163 R, 153 BB, 96 K, .395 BA, .525 OBP, .832 SLG, 1.357 OPS
Juan: 521 AB, 146 H, 33 2B, 5 3B, 33 HR, 111 RBI, 100 R, 53 BB, 113 K, .280 BA, .359 OBP, .721 SLG, 1.114 OPS

Do you think Juan will recover mentally to be able to challenge Ruth again next year or is he done? What do you think?

[Ankit]

Juan Gonzalez: .303 average, 4037 AB, 1224 H,244 2B, 19 3B, 321 HR, 921 RBI, 754 R, 285 BB, 985 K, .349 OBP, .612 SLG, .961 OPS
He has won 4 MVPs and gone to 4 AS games (1920-1923). He is 2nd only to Ruth in career homeruns. He is 11th alltime in RBI with 921.

Babe "Mr. September" Ruth: .361 average, 3395 AB, 1224 H, 243 2B, 82 3B, 361 HR, 1026 RBI, 970 R, 1004 BB, 684 K, .506 OBP, .799 SLG, 1.306 OPS
He has won 5 MVPs and gone to 5 AS games (1920-1924). He is the alltime homerun king. He is 5th in lifetime batting average, 9th in RBI, 5th in walks and 16th in runs scored.

Both of them have won the homerun title in their league every year.

Only Ruth has played in the post-season and he has done that thrice. In 17 career games, he has 13 hits in 61 at-bats with 2 doubles, 2 triples, 5 homeruns, 15 RBI, 11 runs, 12 walks and 15 strikeouts. His batting average is .213, .342 OBP, .557 SLG and a .900 OPS. He won the World Series in 1920 and failed the next two times (1921 and 1924).

[Ankit]

Is anybody enjoying this? Should I continue to post updates or just let the thing die? Am I writing too long? Too boring? Give me some feedback...

[NYJuggalo45]

no dude, keep it going, im enjoying it

[woody5254]

I am also keeping up with this thread. Very interesting.

[Modern Relic]

Keep it going, Ankit. Good stuff.

[Tiger Fan]

Please keep it running. I am sure many of us are following it.

[potatoman]

keep goin

[Tavarin]

This is great stuff, keep it goin

[Ankit]

After a disappointing 1924 season, everyone was wondering if Gonzalez had it in him to come back and be the player he was or whether he would fold and slowly disappear without ever challenging the King Kong.

He answered those questions and silenced his critics by hiting 11 homeruns. Ruth was his old self as he hit .407 with 12 homeruns and a 1.421 oPS in April. Regardless, the homerun race was back on... or was it?

While Ruth continued his onslaught by slugging 12 more in May, Gonzalez faltered hitting only 4 homeruns despite a .301 average in May and had 15 homeruns, two months in to the season while Ruth had 24. Ruth was also hitting .421 and had an OPS of over 1.500!

Ruth slowed down in June as he hit .330 but 8 more homeruns gave him 32 at the AS break. Gonzalez found his sweet stroke again and rode it to the tune of a .363 average, 40 RBI, and 10 homeruns. Trailing Ruth by only 7 homeruns while already having 97 RBI and on pace to set the single season RBI record. Both of them made the AS team yet again.

Gonzalez continued his torrid hitting in July and hit 12 more homeruns and 33 more RBI and a Batter of the Month award, his 12th and first since August 1923. (Ruth had 18 batter of the month awards thus far). Through the end of the month, he had 37 homeruns and 130 RBI. His NL record of 171 RBI was in serious jeopardy with over two months remanining to play. Ruth had yet another disappointing month as he hit only .298 and only 3 homeruns. Gonzalez's 37 homeruns were two more than Ruth had despite Ruth getting off to a monsterous start.

Along with the temperatures in New York, Ruth warmed up in August and hit 8 homeruns to have 43 with only a month or so remaining. Gonzalez added 9 more to his 37 homeruns to finish August with 46 homeruns and 160 RBI... The Cubbies were in first place by a fair margin and were a lock to win the NL. Yankees were locked in a tight race with the Detroit Tigers who were led by the Rajah, Rogers Hornsby.

The final month was nothing short of an epic... for which I will make you wait for a little while...

[Ankit]

With Gonzalez having a 46 - 43 lead, everyone wondered if Gonzalez had it in him to beat Ruth this time around. Ruth was definitely not going to rollover and die and hadn't earned his nickname, "Mr. September", by hitting singles and doubles. The first week of September saw Ruth club 5 homeruns. Gonzalez was hitting them too and had 50 but the lead was down to 2. The two continued to trade homeruns but Ruth had fallen behind by 4 with only 10 days to play Gonzalez was at 55 and Ruth at 51. The Cubbies had clinched the NL title and were on their way to the World Series. The Yankees had dropped out of the running as the Tigers maintained a big lead and were a lock to win the AL.

On September 29, Ruth hit number 52. Next day Gonzo hit 56 and added number 57 a day later.
Ruth responded on October 2, with 2 of his own to bring his total to 54.
Gonzalez & Ruth each hit one on the 4th.
Gonzalez hit his 59th while Ruth hit his 56th on the 7th.

Four games left in the season and Juan has a comfortable lead though Ruth & Gonzalez by now had hit 13 homeruns over the last 5 weeks while Juan had hit 13. Juan had shattered the single season RBI mark and stood on 198, 38 in September and the first week of October.

Ruth hit 2 on the 8th against Washington to pull within 1 of Juan Gone but Juan added number 60 later that night to push his lead up to 2 with 2 games left to play.

On the 10th, Juan went 3 for 5 and drove in 4, including number 200 but no homeruns. Ruth too went 3 for 5 but did hit a homer, number 59!

Juan played the St. Louis Cardinals on the final day of the regular season and drove in 3 runs to finish the season with an ML record 206 RBI. However, he did not homer and finishes with exactly 60 homeruns.

The Bambino was in Cleveland to play the Indians. He walked his first two times up and when he came up in the 6th, with a 3-1 count, he smashed number 60 over the right field fence to tie Gonzalez. Once again, the Bambino had denied Juan the elusive homerun crown. Ruth knew he had one more at-bat remaining in the game and got a chance in the 9th with his team trailing 5-3 and 2 outs in the 9th. The Indians had a choice, walk him for the 160th time this season or pitch to him. Choosing the latter, Ruth walloped a 2-2 hanging curve over the center field fence for number 61!

Yankees lost the game 5-4 but Ruth once again came out on top. In the post-season Juan Gonzalez had a World Series for the ages by hitting 7 homeruns in the seven game series against the Tigers but yet again came up on the losing side as the Tigers beat the Cubs 7-3 to take the series. Gonzalez had homered in each of the first six games and drove in runs but did neither in Game 7 despite going 2 for 3.

Juan and Ruth both won the MVP again, but thats a mute point compared to the heartbreak of Juan and the fierce determination of Ruth displayed in the epic homerun race of 1925. Sure to go down in history as the greatest. The final numbers for the two:

Babe: 541 AB, 205 H, 38 2B, 13 3B, 61 HR, 168 RBI, 157 R, 159 BB, 85 K, .379 BA, .516 OBP, .835 SLG, 1.352 OPS
Juan: 638 AB, 208 H, 43 2B, 6 3B, 60 HR, 206 RBI, 138 R, 44 BB, 146 K, .326 BA, .374 OBP, .694 SLG, 1.068 OPS (second to teammate Elmer Smith's 1.075)

[maddux31holytrinity]

id probably let it die
i mean you apparently didnt factor injuries into gonzalez and you have to remember that gonzalezs stats in the 90s were complied in smaller stadiums, against weaker teams (deluted pitching) and the technology advantage that modern baseball players have compared to players from years past.

[Dwolfson20]

Originally posted by maddux31holytrinity
id probably let it die
i mean you apparently didnt factor injuries into gonzalez and you have to remember that gonzalezs stats in the 90s were complied in smaller stadiums, against weaker teams (deluted pitching) and the technology advantage that modern baseball players have compared to players from years past.

Yikes, that's not a very nice thing to say.

Either way, one could debate for years about the claims you made, so I'll simply say that they aren't really proven, and are more of personal opinions than facts, as you seem to be presenting them.