The White Sox Silver Conspiracy (In an old newsie voice)

[deejqu1k]

So Ive been tracking for about a week and Ive seen enough to actually charge there is a conspiracy a foot. There are a group of people (Ive been able to deduce that much) who are sitting on the market and grabbing all reasonably priced white sox silver cards off as soon as they go up and jacking all the prices up about 2-4x. The silvers are significantly more expensive than the golds. Its very abnormal (go look for yourself).

Any thoughts citziens?

[MrPibb]

I have no doubt that's what's happening.

[waittilnextyear]

It's called "flipping" cards. It's totally legal and has been happening since PT19. Some are so dedicated to this method of income that they actually fund their team by serving as an unwanted middle man in the auction house.

[deejqu1k]

Don't be patronizing, we know how auctions work.

Whats happening here is more sophisticated. There's a difference between flipping and groups coordinating, completely starving the supply and then driving prices up. There are laws in the REAL stock market against certain types of coordinated market manipulation

I'm curious where the community draws the line. Are we ok with groups of people working together to drive pricing?

[thejojo]

It is so annoying. I am doing the exact same mission and I would almost say just get the diamond cards for 2k more.

[Marleigh]

Originally Posted by waittilnextyear

It's called "flipping" cards. It's totally legal and has been happening since PT19. Some are so dedicated to this method of income that they actually fund their team by serving as an unwanted middle man in the auction house.

this isn't flipping, it's price fixing

Price fixing is setting the price of a product or service, rather than allowing it to be determined naturally through free-market forces.

[Lemandria]

Only one of several sorts of collusion limiting the emergence of new competition by design. Join the Country Club or you can't play in the Invitational.

OOTP has to know, presumably they're more than ok with it. After all, it sells PP and packs.

No different from any other P2W game, penny wise and pound foolish. Up to the individual users tolerance to determine when they're fed up with it.

[bailey]

The seller got the price he asked for
The buyer got the card at a price he was willing to pay.
Who is being harmed?

If you want to see real price gouging try doing the negro league collection.

[deejqu1k]

Originally Posted by bailey

The seller got the price he asked for
The buyer got the card at a price he was willing to pay.
Who is being harmed?

If you want to see real price gouging try doing the negro league collection.

What? Thats like saying if someone robs you, but doesnt kill you, "in the end everyone was alright."

I wonder if the mods have a take here. It's outrageous.

[Torgonius]

Originally Posted by deejqu1k

What? Thats like saying if someone robs you, but doesnt kill you, "in the end everyone was alright."

I wonder if the mods have a take here. It's outrageous.

What? Those things aren't at all alike.

Selling cards in the AH is legal. Robbing people is not.
Buying cards in the AH is legal. Killing people is not.

You do not need to use the AH to play the game. It's merely a function to speed up your way to 'winning'.

The mods have a take. It's allowed, because no TOS rules are being broken.

[PocketsAintFull]

Buyers always have the choice whether to buy or not. What would be the alternative? The devs/community setting a ‘fair price’?

[deejqu1k]

Originally Posted by Torgonius

What? Those things aren't at all alike.

Selling cards in the AH is legal. Robbing people is not.
Buying cards in the AH is legal. Killing people is not.

You do not need to use the AH to play the game. It's merely a function to speed up your way to 'winning'.

The mods have a take. It's allowed, because no TOS rules are being broken.

What? Coordinated "price fixing" is in fact illegal in almost all real life marketplaces. You seem very confident and you are calling out a specific part of the TOS, so why dont you share with the group?

If you are just using the word TOS to appeal to authority, Id assume that the rules mimicked general marketplace rules in the real world.

[Torgonius]

Originally Posted by deejqu1k

What? Coordinated "price fixing" is in fact illegal in almost all real life marketplaces..

I must have missed the part where the AH was considered a 'real life' marketplace.

If such a thing was to happen in the 'real world', then yes, there'd likely be issues. But, alas, this is just a game, governed by Terms of Service.

Unless someone is using multiple accounts to do this (and what would be the point there?), the TOS isn't being violated.

Sorry you're having problems completing a mission at the price you'd like to complete it. I'd like a Ferrari, but I guess the dealers are conspiring to make them too expensive for me.

[PocketsAintFull]

Originally Posted by deejqu1k

What? Coordinated "price fixing" is in fact illegal in almost all real life marketplaces. You seem very confident and you are calling out a specific part of the TOS, so why dont you share with the group?

If you are just using the word TOS to appeal to authority, Id assume that the rules mimicked general marketplace rules in the real world.

You would need to be able to prove it as a coordinated group action. I suspect it’s just individuals who are focusing on that particular section of the market.

[dkgo]

One person can easily do this themselves since there are so many cards which means any specific one is going to be relatively rare.

If people just don't buy them then whoever bought them is out their investment until the price comes back down.

If people are still buying them then the cards were underpriced in the first place since people are obviously willing to spend more.

[Orcin]

The Terms of Service are being violated if the OP is correct...

"(d) Deliberately manipulate, outside the course of normal gameplay, the game's economy or the economy of any game-related marketplace in a manner intended to gain a financial or competitive advantage."

I believe the OP is correct, and it is also happening with Twins silvers. I believe that multiple accounts are involved, with one account buying the other accounts' cards in order to keep the last 7 price at the desired point.

This could easily be proven or discounted by the developers if they are willing to look.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Torgonius

Unless someone is using multiple accounts to do this (and what would be the point there?), the TOS isn't being violated.

The point would be to collude, with the owners of both accounts economically benefiting (in the game) from the deceptive practice.

[jde611]

I'm floored that I came across this thread just as I was one White Sox silver away from completing the team set, and therefore the division, and therefore the whole AL. I have no doubt that the prices on CWS silvers are abnormal and certainly fishy, but I don't have any information that indicates that it rises to the level of a conspiracy. How would a price fixing scheme even work? Regardless, I really hope this gets solved soon so I can finish the set. As a side note, does anyone wanna sell me a 73 Tim Anderson rn?

[MrPibb]

I think a lot of you are missing aspects of this. This game is a pay to win, but not everybody is going to drop hundreds of dollars on packs.

I'm sure a lot of people are in the same boat as I am where the only way to make an affordable upgrade to avoid getting curbstomped in the upper levels is to do the missions. So for me to get the yastrzemski that is on nearly every team in my gold league I need to buy the silver collection cards. I can't afford the 60,000 upgrades that most people have.

That being said, silvers in general are too rare and for somebody or somebody's to buy them up and gouge may not be 100% against the TOS, but it's still scummy. I know the game makers need to make their money, but when people like me who won't pay (because I can't) run into paywalls like the sox thing, we get turned away because it means horrific beatings in the upper leagues.

It was fun at first, but the P2W aspect is much worse than I thought. Especially since I plunked down 40 bucks to start out.

[abangs]

I completely sympathize with the OP in terms of how much it stinks.

One of my teams (all FTP), the Perros, completed the White Sox mission last week. It cost a lot of PP, and that was with Grandal already on my team. I was shocked at the prices of the silver players as well.

Now, I'm trying to complete the White Sox mission with a second team that is desperate for pitching and has already completed 3 other AL Central missions (CLE, KCR, MIN). The Cluckers finished the past week with 90 losses, but managed to avoid relegation (it tied with another team that was relegated), which means that I shouldn't expect to earn many PP from achievements this week. That leaves me with grinding tournaments for PP and packs in the desperate hope that I get lucky and pull some Chisox. I actually did get Tim Anderson from a pack a couple of days ago, but that's the highest rated Chisox card I've pulled, which means that I need 5 cards among Bummer (70), Abreu (71), Encarnacion (74), Jimenez (81), Moncada (84), Giolito (94), and Grandal (95).

Jimenez and Moncada are indeed going for prices similar to, and sometimes lower than, the guys in the 70s, so I've picked them up for about 3500. Unfortunately, neither is quite good enough to make my roster, so they went straight to reserve. Now that leaves me with 3 cards to get. The best (realistic) case scenario is that I snatch up all 3 of the 70s guys at around market value, which will cost about 5000-5500 PP in addition to the already sunk costs of 3500 PP for Jimenez/Moncada and (only!) 300 PP for the guys in the 60s I needed to get to this point. And that's if I am lucky enough to find them at market value, and not at the markups most sellers are offering them at, where I could be spending 7500 PP. All for a pitcher, Ted Lyons, who sells on the market for about 7000 PP.

But I want to complete the mission so I can also add Blyleven as the AL Central reward! The fifth AL Central mission I need to complete is the Tigers, which should be a piece of cake, meaning that it's all about finishing this darn Chisox mission. So here I am, that 5500 PP (or more) target looking as reachable as a million PP, grinding at the tournaments, debating whether I should save up an extra 3000 PP and buy Giolito instead of one of the guys in the 70s--I am desperate for pitching after all. Either way, it's going to take days to get there.

So yeah, it's a tough situation.

I'm not sure if it's necessarily collusion, though. I think it's just the fact that there are only 28 available Chisox, meaning that there's very little flexibility in terms of completing the collections mission, so some people decided to take advantage of that by cornering the market on those higher cost cards, knowing that some people might get desperate for them. It doesn't require conspiring and could theoretically be just one person doing it.