How do you Rebuild?

[Desolate]

I started a Marlins save today and became curious as to what other people do with their teams.

As soon as you enter the save, do you make a ton of trades and carve the team to your liking before day 1?

Do you wait until someone over performs and then flip them for higher quality than normal specs?

Do you take a more realistic approach and do it gradually through the season?

Do you wait till the trade deadline?

I usually start a rebuild telling myself I’m going to do it “realistically” and then after about 1-2 hours I just decided to blow up the team and start the huge amount of trades.

I really want to see what you guys have to say. Not only just to cure my curiosity, but may to take or give advice as well!

[Tony820]

Originally Posted by Desolate

I started a Marlins save today and became curious as to what other people do with their teams.

As soon as you enter the save, do you make a ton of trades and carve the team to your liking before day 1?

Do you wait until someone over performs and then flip them for higher quality than normal specs?

Do you take a more realistic approach and do it gradually through the season?

Do you wait till the trade deadline?

I usually start a rebuild telling myself I’m going to do it “realistically” and then after about 1-2 hours I just decided to blow up the team and start the huge amount of trades.

I really want to see what you guys have to say. Not only just to cure my curiosity, but may to take or give advice as well!

I think it's better, and also more realistic to take a slower approach. I'm doing it right now with the Rockies, who had a mediocre team, so bad contracts and a TERRIBLE farm system. Oh and it's impossible to pitch at Coors. So I like the challenge.

I went into with an organizational philosophy in mind. I want to build my minor league coaching staff around the type of players I'm going to draft (Eye/Contact guys that hopefully can develop some power as they advance, groundball and power pitchers as well) and draft/target players that may meet those needs. But it's not going to happen overnight. I always like to try and get my contracts in order, start getting out bad money and seeing if there are guys that aren't in my long term plans, when is the best time to get value for them.

I could go way more in depth, but take your time. Rome wasn't built in one day.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Desolate

I usually start a rebuild telling myself I’m going to do it “realistically” and then after about 1-2 hours I just decided to blow up the team and start the huge amount of trades.

I used to do this.

Then I realized that I was making myself crazy and exploring EVERY possibility.

So, I made myself some ground rules about how many times I can change an offer after another team first agrees.

[Desolate]

Originally Posted by Tony820

I think it's better, and also more realistic to take a slower approach. I'm doing it right now with the Rockies, who had a mediocre team, so bad contracts and a TERRIBLE farm system. Oh and it's impossible to pitch at Coors. So I like the challenge.

I went into with an organizational philosophy in mind. I want to build my minor league coaching staff around the type of players I'm going to draft (Eye/Contact guys that hopefully can develop some power as they advance, groundball and power pitchers as well) and draft/target players that may meet those needs. But it's not going to happen overnight. I always like to try and get my contracts in order, start getting out bad money and seeing if there are guys that aren't in my long term plans, when is the best time to get value for them.

I could go way more in depth, but take your time. Rome wasn't built in one day.

Thanks for the tips, and the story. Good luck at Coors, it’s like pitchers hell.... but worse.

[Desolate]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

I used to do this.

Then I realized that I was making myself crazy and exploring EVERY possibility.

So, I made myself some ground rules about how many times I can change an offer after another team first agrees.

This is what I will end up having to do. I like trading too much haha.

[Fronzizzle]

I always start with the Tigers, so for the last few versions of OOTP I've started with a bad team.

If I'm looking for young, MLB-ready (or near ready) talent, then I'll make the trades right away. If I'm looking for longer-term players, then I'll do it gradually over the season, mainly because if I deal the few good players I have, my team goes from bad to historically bad.

As an example, when I took over the Tigers, I dealt Matt Boyd to Boston for a package headlined by Jeter Downs. I did this in spring training. Just after the season started, I traded Nova for a Single A lottery ticket. In June, I dealt Goodrum, then near the deadline I traded Cron, Schoop and Jimenez. In the next offseason, I traded Fulmer.

[jimmysthebestcop]

A little bit of everything. It took me until end of June to get rid of odubel herrera. His contract was worth 28.x million. Took a prospect and 7.5 million in cash to do it. While some players got shipped out right away.

Even bought a couple of mexican players because I didn't want to move any up from my minors yet and waste options.

I do tend to make many deals but most of it is all for the minor system not like I am getting mlb players. And doubtful the prospects will become anything. But I take the NBA approach and I just set to acquire assets.

The more assets you can get the better. Eventually you'll have enough too start getting better prospects or bench/AAAA type of guys so you can at least field some kind of team.

I also scour all f the Int, Indy leagues that you can buy players from. You might find some old has beens to plug a roster spot then dump after the year. But you can acquire assets for the farm system and who knows what will happen in the long run.

I'll try and get some budget room so I can claim waivers eat their contract and trade them off for prospects. I'll do a pseudo NBA 3 way cap trade where I'll trade for that 1 yr superstar at the deadline and eat his 15+ million only to trade him to a contender that doesn't have payroll room but will give 2 or 3 prospects. Especially for those closers or starting bats.

Example as the Phillies I was able to trade Wheeler and his 20+ million contract he is really only a 4 or 5 in OOTP not worth 20+ million. Well clearing that room I was able to absorb 4 to 6 contracts of other players and get prospects for them.

It might not be MLB realistic again its more of the NBA style but it does feel like you are doing pseudo 3 team trades at least.

Out of the many trades I did before my year 1 trade deadline I only got 1 real MLB starter that was Albert Almora Jr. Cubs are packed in outfield and signed Cargo as their vet 4th OF and called up Perez as their super utility guy at every position. They really wanted to get rid of him. It took 2 million and a prospect.

I try to start moving all my minor guys when they hit 25 and 26. I might have a couple older guys in AAA that are doing the carpool to the show when needed for injuries or resting players.

It does mean that 1st year you are an absolute basement dweller of epic proportions though lol. Then you hope in your 2nd year you either have a couple guys ready for the show or enough assets to get you players that are ready for the show opening day. When your team is that bad it doesn't matter what position you go after. I try and target teams that are overloaded at a certain position. Maybe they got their mlb starter and they got 2 guys in minors. Most likely 1 of them will be valued less on some team and that's who I go after.

I managed 1 big score but it cost me. I traded Didi and Realmuto ate their current year contract that was almost 30 million, had to also include 2 pitcher prospects to land Royce Lewis. Twins were in a battle with the Tribe and in win it now mode. In 20 games JT's WRC+ is 237 for the twins lol. Now they are 4 games in front of the tribe. And competing with Yankees and Astros for best record. Polanco and Arraez now man 2B and DH bumping out 40 yr old Cruz.

I got my young stud and they are WS contenders now.

[pfholden]

In OOTP 21, I made trades right away with the O's rebuild because they had no budget room and I wanted to allocate the money to the draft, scouting etc.



Normally I may have waited longer, but if the budget situation is going to interfere with my ability to fund important things for an entire season, I'll make moves right away.

[Dave Stieb II]

My preference would be to wait and follow a rebuilding path that reflects real life timelines but I find that the initial financials set up by OOTP really don't make that practical.


And that is a shame. This game is so outstanding in so many ways, with such depth and breadth, but I do have my pet peeves and this is one of them.


An example I've looked at in OOTP21 would be the Tigers. I haven't started a new game with them yet, but I probably will at some point in the future. I'll use them as an example, but this scenario applies to pretty much every small and mid-market rebuilding team.


The Tigers don't have near enough money initially allocated to scouting or player development for a rebuilding team and they have a poor scout. If you stand pat our of the gate, you are basically punting the first year in these areas and setting your rebuild back.


But they do have what appear to be tradeable/unloadable one year contracts to C Romine, 1B Cron, 2B Schoop - players who clearly won't be around when the team is competitive again.


So I will take advantage of the AI (without cheating) to find a creative way to unload these contracts for the best prospects available. Then I will fill in the temporary major league holes with cheap but experienced waiver claims or guys other teams are looking to unload. In the case of the latter, I will have the other teams eat as much contract as possible and/or kick in $$$.


Then I will allocate these new found financial resources to scouting, player development and a scout with some talent.


The "problem" with this is twofold:


My problem is that once I get on a trading role and see tempting prospects that are available, I sometimes go too far, make too many trades, and revamp things too much before the first game is played. That damages the realism of the game and that's on me.


OOTP's part of the 'problem' is this - even if I do stop myself from going overboard, they've basically forced me to alter the roster before game one In order to do my job to the best of my ability - which I see as increasing the amounts allocated to scouting and player development and finding a scout with at least a modicum of ability.


Either way, we are going to suck early on. But I'd rather suck knowing we've done the best we could to upgrade the areas that are truly important to a rebuild. For realism sake, I'd just prefer to do it without revamping the roster too much - at least for the first 90 days of the season.

[mrbadguy]

Ive always found "rebuilds" or expansion teams a little to easy. I recently took the Rockies in their Expansion year, made the playoffs in year 2 and won WS in year 3. I did so with the players drafted through expansion and draft. No sneaky trades or FA signings.
Although have had a challenge building up bad teams, ie Philadelphia Athletics, back in the 40s, 50s. Usually because pitching staffs are horrid.

[PepeSylvia]

I like to make moves right away to get them in my system. Not realistic but I don't want my rebuild trade targets to have their development stunted.

I almost always trade for Jarred Kelenic, Alex Kirilloff, and Jasson Dominguez. Dominguez doesn't always pan out but Kelenic and Kirillof end up great a lot.

[Dave Stieb II]

Wow. That's one high ceiling(ed) young outfield. I find it difficult to acquire prospects of that high of caliber but that's probably because I'm usually not willing to pay the other team's price. I generally land the prospects in the next tie for a relative pittance.
I do understand your approach, though, and I'm torn on the matter. I'd really like to force myself to follow more realistic timelines but I usually end up doing exactly what you do because I love having top prospects we can identify with in MY system ASAP.