Historical Roster Sizes

alinkens · 05-05-2002, 09:41 PM

Just a quick thought, I am playing a historical league and I noticed that the roster size of 25 is too large. The only problem is that you cant force the computer teams into using a smaller roster. Any idea if we could add a roster size feature to the next patch??

Steve Kuffrey · 05-06-2002, 01:44 AM

What year has roster sizes smaller than 25?

Tiger Fan · 05-06-2002, 04:35 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Steve Kuffrey:
What year has roster sizes smaller than 25?<hr /></blockquote>Steve
I have no exact numbers on roster size but a check at baseball reference and you will see most teams appeared to only carry 18-22 players in the deadball era. This is mainly due to the fact their were generally just 5 or 6 pitchers on the roster.

Just allowing an editable roster size button would not solve the problem. It goes a little deeper than that since you need to tell the cpu controlled teams how many players to carry at each position. If it was simply changed to 20 players what is to stop a cpu controlled team from having 10 pitchers and just 10 position players?

It would be nice if roster size and a few other things could be tied into the era manager settings. I have not brought it up before during testing because this is likely a major change more suited for version 5 than a patch.

Ideally, but I am not sure if it is possible to do, would be to have team trading and drafting AI be tied into your era setting as well so middle relievers would have virtually no value to computer controlled teams if you were playing in the deadball era. Teams would also then put more emphasis on hitters speed and contact hitting ability and not worry at all about his power potential.

The roster size and changes to the trade value would also help control finances a little more (although I have had no problems in this area at all with my historic league) since teams would not want to have more than 4 or 5 high priced pitchers on their payroll.

[ 05-06-2002, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: Tiger Fan ]

Scott Vibert · 05-06-2002, 04:37 AM

You could edit the roster sizes in OOTP3 with Pierre's editor.

So hopefully this will allow it for OOTP4 as well.

Malleus Dei · 05-06-2002, 05:50 AM

During a number of seasons the MLB roster sizes were not at the current 25.

Steve, I went over this in alpha/beta when I was trying to get Markus to allow users to set roster sizes for historical seasons or fictional leagues with different rules. I posted a list of the years and the roster sizes. Everyone yawned.

Using Pierre's editor never worked, either. The minute you ran the computer managers, the roster size reset to 25 and the AI made whatever transactions it felt like to get there.

The game needs an option where you can set roster size from say, 15 to 40, and it will actually stick.

Could I get you to bring this back up with Markus?

alinkens · 05-06-2002, 07:53 AM

I was reading up on roster sizes and MLB actually had a maximum player limit of 25 since the beginning, but they also had a minimal player limit which varied from 15 - 25 players depending on the year. It was not until 1977 that they actually made the minimal player limit 24, I am playing an early historical league and I find that the computer is using players who should be in A ball at the Major League Level because they feel the need to fill their rosters to 25.

Tiger Fan · 05-06-2002, 09:59 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Malleus Dei:
The game needs an option where you can set roster size from say, 15 to 40, and it will actually stick.

Could I get you to bring this back up with Markus?<hr /></blockquote>I think there is more to it than just changing the maximum roster size. The only time where this really comes into play is with deadball era teams and it is because of the way pitchers were used in that era.
If the roster size is to be dropped to then the entire way the computer manager looks at his team has to be reworked so the computer puts virtually no value on middle relievers.
I do not believe it will work properly simply by saying the roster max is now 20.

Tweaking the computer trade and player useage AI to tie in with the era manager option is the way I think this needs to be done to work properly. I ,too, would like to see this option incorporated but I would think this is more an OOTP5 possibility than something that could be considered for a patch because of the scope of it.

[ 05-06-2002, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Tiger Fan ]

Arbiter · 05-06-2002, 10:13 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by alinkens:
I was reading up on roster sizes and MLB actually had a maximum player limit of 25 since the beginning, but they also had a minimal player limit which varied from 15 - 25 players depending on the year. It was not until 1977 that they actually made the minimal player limit 24,<hr /></blockquote>This is largely inaccurate.

A good source for this is:

<a href="http://users.erols.com/brak/rosters.htm" target="_blank">http://users.erols.com/brak/rosters.htm</a>

Malleus Dei · 05-06-2002, 11:45 AM

That listing at that web site is a very powerful argument in favor of customizable roster sizes for the sake of those who do historical replays.

05-05-2002, 09:41 PM	#1
alinkens All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: CT Posts: 1,072	Historical Roster Sizes Just a quick thought, I am playing a historical league and I noticed that the roster size of 25 is too large. The only problem is that you cant force the computer teams into using a smaller roster. Any idea if we could add a roster size feature to the next patch?? __________________ Owner of the Coast to Coast League's Regina Pride

05-06-2002, 01:44 AM	#2
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,036	What year has roster sizes smaller than 25? __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

05-06-2002, 04:35 AM	#3
Tiger Fan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 9,873	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Steve Kuffrey: <strong>What year has roster sizes smaller than 25?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Steve I have no exact numbers on roster size but a check at baseball reference and you will see most teams appeared to only carry 18-22 players in the deadball era. This is mainly due to the fact their were generally just 5 or 6 pitchers on the roster. Just allowing an editable roster size button would not solve the problem. It goes a little deeper than that since you need to tell the cpu controlled teams how many players to carry at each position. If it was simply changed to 20 players what is to stop a cpu controlled team from having 10 pitchers and just 10 position players? It would be nice if roster size and a few other things could be tied into the era manager settings. I have not brought it up before during testing because this is likely a major change more suited for version 5 than a patch. Ideally, but I am not sure if it is possible to do, would be to have team trading and drafting AI be tied into your era setting as well so middle relievers would have virtually no value to computer controlled teams if you were playing in the deadball era. Teams would also then put more emphasis on hitters speed and contact hitting ability and not worry at all about his power potential. The roster size and changes to the trade value would also help control finances a little more (although I have had no problems in this area at all with my historic league) since teams would not want to have more than 4 or 5 high priced pitchers on their payroll. <small>[ 05-06-2002, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: Tiger Fan ]</small> __________________ Cliff Markle HOB1 greatest pitcher 360-160, 9 Welch Awards, 11 WS titles

05-06-2002, 07:53 AM	#6
alinkens All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: CT Posts: 1,072	I was reading up on roster sizes and MLB actually had a maximum player limit of 25 since the beginning, but they also had a minimal player limit which varied from 15 - 25 players depending on the year. It was not until 1977 that they actually made the minimal player limit 24, I am playing an early historical league and I find that the computer is using players who should be in A ball at the Major League Level because they feel the need to fill their rosters to 25. __________________ Owner of the Coast to Coast League's Regina Pride

05-06-2002, 09:59 AM	#7
Tiger Fan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 9,873	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Malleus Dei: <strong>The game needs an option where you can set roster size from say, 15 to 40, and it will actually stick. Could I get you to bring this back up with Markus?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think there is more to it than just changing the maximum roster size. The only time where this really comes into play is with deadball era teams and it is because of the way pitchers were used in that era. If the roster size is to be dropped to then the entire way the computer manager looks at his team has to be reworked so the computer puts virtually no value on middle relievers. I do not believe it will work properly simply by saying the roster max is now 20. Tweaking the computer trade and player useage AI to tie in with the era manager option is the way I think this needs to be done to work properly. I ,too, would like to see this option incorporated but I would think this is more an OOTP5 possibility than something that could be considered for a patch because of the scope of it. <small>[ 05-06-2002, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Tiger Fan ]</small> __________________ Cliff Markle HOB1 greatest pitcher 360-160, 9 Welch Awards, 11 WS titles

05-06-2002, 04:37 AM	#4
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,266	You could edit the roster sizes in OOTP3 with Pierre's editor. So hopefully this will allow it for OOTP4 as well.

05-06-2002, 10:13 AM	#8
Arbiter Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: College Station TX Posts: 127	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by alinkens: <strong>I was reading up on roster sizes and MLB actually had a maximum player limit of 25 since the beginning, but they also had a minimal player limit which varied from 15 - 25 players depending on the year. It was not until 1977 that they actually made the minimal player limit 24,</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is largely inaccurate. A good source for this is: <a href="http://users.erols.com/brak/rosters.htm" target="_blank">http://users.erols.com/brak/rosters.htm</a>