Mack Jones for Bob Gibson & Steve Carlton

Ty Cobb · 07-28-2019, 11:32 AM

Shopped Jones around, got offered Gibson. Added Lefty...done!

Is this a rival to Fregosi for Ryan in real life? I know for sure I reamed the AI on this...

Thankfully, it's just a league where I'm experimenting, not challenge mode or anything like that. I might feel bad then...

battists · 07-28-2019, 12:10 PM

See this is one of the things I personally dislike about playing with real players. No matter what the ratings say, you KNOW which players are likely to be great.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ty Cobb · 07-28-2019, 12:52 PM

Well, I was testing out a concept and just sort of did this as a lark...but come on, even in '64, I think everyone in the business knew Lefty was going to be good at the least. Also, even if you take the original offer...Mack Jones for Bob Gibson??? You ask Tigers management from then if they'd have made that deal. Imagine Lolich, Gibson, McClain...and 68 probably gets joined by 67 for sure...and maybe even 66. Gibson would have also helped in the early 70s...like 72 where we lost to the A's.

Orcin · 07-28-2019, 12:58 PM

What trade difficulty are you using?

battists · 07-28-2019, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

Well, I was testing out a concept and just sort of did this as a lark...but come on, even in '64, I think everyone in the business knew Lefty was going to be good at the least. Also, even if you take the original offer...Mack Jones for Bob Gibson??? You ask Tigers management from then if they'd have made that deal. Imagine Lolich, Gibson, McClain...and 68 probably gets joined by 67 for sure...and maybe even 66. Gibson would have also helped in the early 70s...like 72 where we lost to the A's.

I guess my point is, even if "everyone in the business" knew that, the computer doesn't. There are hundreds of young players with potential in any given season. You're kind of gaming the system because you KNOW Carlton is going to turn out to be great, when to the game, he's just a bunch of numbers like any other young player with potential.

Bluenoser · 07-28-2019, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

Well, I was testing out a concept and just sort of did this as a lark...but come on, even in '64, I think everyone in the business knew Lefty was going to be good at the least. Also, even if you take the original offer...Mack Jones for Bob Gibson??? You ask Tigers management from then if they'd have made that deal. Imagine Lolich, Gibson, McClain...and 68 probably gets joined by 67 for sure...and maybe even 66. Gibson would have also helped in the early 70s...like 72 where we lost to the A's.

Everyone except the AI in OOTP

Ty Cobb · 07-28-2019, 05:39 PM

I was using whatever the default trade setting is. I wasn't really looking to even bother with trades...just tesing an idea. This popped up, and well...what the heck. Since it's not even a CM game, there's no real benefit gained...just kind of a laugh like the AH Laughs thread. Still...it might bear inspection.

David Watts · 07-28-2019, 05:47 PM

I think it's been 6 versions or more since I even made an OOTP trade. I do wonder though if "Hall of Fame" type players should be flagged in some way so the AI recognizes they are very special. Kind of like the draft rating deal the game uses.

majesty95 · 07-28-2019, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

I guess my point is, even if "everyone in the business" knew that, the computer doesn't. There are hundreds of young players with potential in any given season. You're kind of gaming the system because you KNOW Carlton is going to turn out to be great, when to the game, he's just a bunch of numbers like any other young player with potential.

It drives me crazy when this is the response to that. Maybe it really is a trade AI issue? I’m bviouslybwe would need to see the ratings of the players to see if they’re expected to be as good as real life, but saying we know more than the AI is a problem. They AI should know more than us.

BirdWatcher · 07-29-2019, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by majesty95

It drives me crazy when this is the response to that. Maybe it really is a trade AI issue? I’m bviouslybwe would need to see the ratings of the players to see if they’re expected to be as good as real life, but saying we know more than the AI is a problem. They AI should know more than us.

But with historical players we know more because we have the advantage of hindsight. Do we want the AI to operate based upon the reality at that moment in the save or do we want it to factor in a future that would have been unknowable to a real-life GM/scouting staff/etc. at that point in time? Plus, depending upon the settings one uses, there is no guarantee that a Steve Carlton will become a Hall-of-Famer.

Maximum Jay · 07-29-2019, 11:46 AM

I traded for both Bob Gibson and Brooks Robinson in my historical...got them both for peanuts thinking I was sooo smart.

Gibson never could get his control issues squared away, so after 3 seasons I traded him back to STL (lol), and now at age 29, he's playing 1B on their A ball team...Robinson lost two straight seasons to injury and never progressed past 2 stars, he's currently rotting away in AA, and I doubt he'll ever sniff the majors again.

David Watts · 07-29-2019, 01:08 PM

Question, can one use recalc when using Challenge Mode or all games in this mode played using the OOTP Development engine?

Argonaut · 07-29-2019, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

Question, can one use recalc when using Challenge Mode or all games in this mode played using the OOTP Development engine?

Challenge Mode is locked-in to the OOTP Development Engine last I checked.

Drstrangelove · 07-29-2019, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

Well, I was testing out a concept and just sort of did this as a lark...but come on, even in '64, I think everyone in the business knew Lefty was going to be good at the least. Also, even if you take the original offer...Mack Jones for Bob Gibson??? You ask Tigers management from then if they'd have made that deal. Imagine Lolich, Gibson, McClain...and 68 probably gets joined by 67 for sure...and maybe even 66. Gibson would have also helped in the early 70s...like 72 where we lost to the A's.

https://collection.baseballhall.org/...rt-1964-may-15

"very little interest from other clubs... "

Ty Cobb · 07-29-2019, 03:34 PM

Nice find. Enlightening.

07-28-2019, 11:32 AM	#1
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 4,569	Mack Jones for Bob Gibson & Steve Carlton Shopped Jones around, got offered Gibson. Added Lefty...done! Is this a rival to Fregosi for Ryan in real life? I know for sure I reamed the AI on this... Thankfully, it's just a league where I'm experimenting, not challenge mode or anything like that. I might feel bad then... __________________ "You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me." Thanos

07-28-2019, 12:10 PM	#2
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	See this is one of the things I personally dislike about playing with real players. No matter what the ratings say, you KNOW which players are likely to be great. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Come check out my dynasty report, Funky Times!

07-28-2019, 12:52 PM	#3
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 4,569	Well, I was testing out a concept and just sort of did this as a lark...but come on, even in '64, I think everyone in the business knew Lefty was going to be good at the least. Also, even if you take the original offer...Mack Jones for Bob Gibson??? You ask Tigers management from then if they'd have made that deal. Imagine Lolich, Gibson, McClain...and 68 probably gets joined by 67 for sure...and maybe even 66. Gibson would have also helped in the early 70s...like 72 where we lost to the A's. __________________ "You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me." Thanos

07-28-2019, 05:39 PM	#7
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 4,569	I was using whatever the default trade setting is. I wasn't really looking to even bother with trades...just tesing an idea. This popped up, and well...what the heck. Since it's not even a CM game, there's no real benefit gained...just kind of a laugh like the AH Laughs thread. Still...it might bear inspection. __________________ "You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me." Thanos

07-29-2019, 03:34 PM	#15
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 4,569	Nice find. Enlightening. __________________ "You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me." Thanos

07-28-2019, 12:58 PM	#4
Orcin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,847 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	What trade difficulty are you using?

07-28-2019, 05:47 PM	#8
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,603 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	I think it's been 6 versions or more since I even made an OOTP trade. I do wonder though if "Hall of Fame" type players should be flagged in some way so the AI recognizes they are very special. Kind of like the draft rating deal the game uses.

07-29-2019, 11:46 AM	#11
Maximum Jay Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 7	I traded for both Bob Gibson and Brooks Robinson in my historical...got them both for peanuts thinking I was sooo smart. Gibson never could get his control issues squared away, so after 3 seasons I traded him back to STL (lol), and now at age 29, he's playing 1B on their A ball team...Robinson lost two straight seasons to injury and never progressed past 2 stars, he's currently rotting away in AA, and I doubt he'll ever sniff the majors again.

07-29-2019, 01:08 PM	#12
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,603 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Question, can one use recalc when using Challenge Mode or all games in this mode played using the OOTP Development engine?