Home Field Advantage??

Jon277 · 05-02-2002, 10:57 AM

Is playing at home really a good thing? Does you team play better at home?

Hammer755 · 05-02-2002, 10:59 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jon277:
Is playing at home really a good thing? Does you team play better at home?<hr /></blockquote>No, home field advantage is not modeled in OOTP. There have been multiple threads discussing this, I'm sure you can find them using the board search.

[ 05-02-2002, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Hammer755 ]

J P Falcon · 05-02-2002, 11:10 AM

The only benefit of home field is, of course, having the last at bat. Otherwise, I don't believe there is any home field advantage and should never be incorporated in a game. There are too many examples of home teams losing important games.

Hammer755 · 05-02-2002, 11:15 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by J P Falcon:
The only benefit of home field is, of course, having the last at bat. Otherwise, I don't believe there is any home field advantage and should never be incorporated in a game. There are too many examples of home teams losing important games.<hr /></blockquote>Statistics show there is a slight (but not insignificant) advantage to playing at home, but to incorporate it into a numerical sim model would be nearly impossible.

[ 05-02-2002, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: Hammer755 ]

HolyCow98 · 05-02-2002, 01:06 PM

In my first 4 seasons I was cumulatively about 20 games over .500. I think two of the years I had a better road record. The past two season I have been well over .500 at home, I think 45 games over. In my on going season this season I am 30-4 at home and 15-17 on the road. Go figure.

I still don't think that there is an advantage at home other than the last at-bat though.

DarkFudge · 05-02-2002, 04:56 PM

JP...your right about baseball....numbers dont tend to support any kind of home field advantage consistantly throughout the entire league....However there is MOST certainly a Home field ( court ) advantage in NBA basketball and the numbers are definitely there. Its not a tangible/physical advantage but is most certainly a heavily induced psychological one that has a proven track record.

I kind of find it odd that only Basketball has such a home advantage phenomina that no other sport seems to clearly have...anyone have any ideas why it seems to only be prevalent in Basketball?

Andy · 05-02-2002, 04:57 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DarkFudge:
JP...your right about baseball....numbers dont tend to support any kind of home field advantage consistantly throughout the entire league....However there is MOST certainly a Home field ( court ) advantage in NBA basketball and the numbers are definitely there. Its not a tangible/physical advantage but is most certainly a heavily induced psychological one that has a proven track record.

I kind of find it odd that only Basketball has such a home advantage phenomina that no other sport seems to clearly have...anyone have any ideas why it seems to only be prevalent in Basketball?<hr /></blockquote>Good point.

HMKRich · 05-02-2002, 07:53 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Andy:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DarkFudge:
JP...your right about baseball....numbers dont tend to support any kind of home field advantage consistantly throughout the entire league....However there is MOST certainly a Home field ( court ) advantage in NBA basketball and the numbers are definitely there. Its not a tangible/physical advantage but is most certainly a heavily induced psychological one that has a proven track record.

I kind of find it odd that only Basketball has such a home advantage phenomina that no other sport seems to clearly have...anyone have any ideas why it seems to only be prevalent in Basketball?<hr /></blockquote>Good point.<hr /></blockquote>Here's something i read and paraphrased:
Prior to games/matches, players on the home team have testosterone levels 3x higher than the visiting team. Something about the protecting your home kinda thing. I guess that the "warior" mentality is not as prevelant in "the boys of summer" as in "gridiron wariors"; basketball's "street" and "getto" aspects probably accentuate the home field testosterone boost.

DarkFudge · 05-03-2002, 04:24 AM

Rich I dont doubt what your saying but I just find it hard to believe that what you paraphrased is the reason for the extremely bloated HOME advantages that you see in basketball because the greater testosterone levels that are prevelant before each game surely must get brought back down to earth of the course of an entire game that for the most part sees a number of momentum and streak swings for both teams but for some reason ends with the home team prevailing (considering both teams are generally pretty equal in terms of talent )

The players most certainly seem to feed their adrenalin rushes throughout the game from the crowd but whyso more in basketball than in any other sport? Could the fact that the art of consistantly shooting well is as much psychological as it is physical?....Are outside distractions much more of a hindrance/aid in the art of shooting a basketball then they are in any other sport?...what could be skew these stats so much in favor of Home advantages in basketball?

Kevin · 05-03-2002, 04:40 AM

I think it has a lot to do with the pace of play. Basketball and hockey are games where momentum and speed play a major part, both of which spark the fans, which in turn can help boost the players adrenalin level. Home ice in hockey also gives the shift change and faceoff advantages to the home team.

J P Falcon · 05-03-2002, 06:32 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Kevin:
I think it has a lot to do with the pace of play. Basketball and hockey are games where momentum and speed play a major part, both of which spark the fans, which in turn can help boost the players adrenalin level. Home ice in hockey also gives the shift change and faceoff advantages to the home team.<hr /></blockquote>I think in Ice Hockey, there is less of a home field advantage because a game can swing to the opponents very quickly if their goalie is "standing on his head".

Jon277 · 05-03-2002, 06:46 AM

At home the players know their field better also. Players are definately more comfortable playing at a place that they know. I think at your home field players should have better range in the field since they play there more.

DarkFudge · 05-03-2002, 11:08 AM

btw....if you guys cant answer the home court advantage question, which do you think sells more and which do you prefer: Sprite or 7UP ?

Peter Bergstrom · 05-07-2002, 05:27 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />The only benefit of home field is, of course, having the last at bat. Otherwise, I don't believe there is any home field advantage and should never be incorporated in a game. There are too many examples of home teams losing important games.<hr /></blockquote>Sorry, JP. Statistics show that Home tems win 55-57% of the time year in, year out, in MLB. Though not as lop-sided a variable as in pro football or basketball it's definitely 'there'. It's inexplicable that OOTP, unlike Diamond Mind Baseball, has omitted this factor. It diminishes the value of beginning a series at home in the post-season.

Henry · 05-07-2002, 05:32 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Peter Bergstrom:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />The only benefit of home field is, of course, having the last at bat. Otherwise, I don't believe there is any home field advantage and should never be incorporated in a game. There are too many examples of home teams losing important games.<hr /></blockquote>Sorry, JP. Statistics show that Home tems win 55-57% of the time year in, year out, in MLB. Though not as lop-sided a variable as in pro football or basketball it's definitely 'there'. It's inexplicable that OOTP, unlike Diamond Mind Baseball, has omitted this factor. It diminishes the value of beginning a series at home in the post-season.<hr /></blockquote>I agree with your figures Peter, but the last-at-bat more than covers for this statistic... remember we're talking about a turn-based game here, not a clock-based game.

[ 05-07-2002, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Henry ]

Scott Vibert · 05-07-2002, 05:33 AM

Why do we need three different threads saying the same things by the same posters?

Here we go again... since people have stopped responding to my previous posts or the previous threads on this topic here they are:

I would suggest that people read all three threads to see the arguments covered in each...

The original thread stopped responding too (started by Peter Bergeron):

<a href="http://www.400softwarestudios.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000594" target="_blank">http://www.400softwarestudios.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000594</a>

The latest thread started by DarkFudge:

<a href="http://www.400softwarestudios.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002658" target="_blank">http://www.400softwarestudios.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002658</a>

In the end I do not support an artificial factor adjusting players ratings simply to buoy the home wins/loss percentage, at the expense of the results of the simulation.

mtw · 05-07-2002, 05:48 AM

Lose the unrealistic, arbitrary anti-winning streak factor and add it in as the more realistic home-field advantage factor.

Steve Kuffrey · 05-07-2002, 05:49 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ScottVib:
Why do we need three different threads saying the same things by the same posters?

Here we go again... since people have stopped responding to my previous posts or the previous threads on this topic here they are:

I would suggest that people read all three threads to see the arguments covered in each...

The original thread stopped responding too (started by Peter Bergeron):

<a href="http://www.400softwarestudios.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000594" target="_blank">http://www.400softwarestudios.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000594 </a>

The latest thread started by DarkFudge:

<a href="http://www.400softwarestudios.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002658" target="_blank">http://www.400softwarestudios.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002658 </a>

In the end I do not support an artificial factor adjusting players ratings simply to buoy the home wins/loss percentage, at the expense of the results of the simulation.<hr /></blockquote>Agreed....

We don't need multiple topics on this.

[ 05-07-2002, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: Steve Kuffrey ]

Henry · 05-07-2002, 05:50 AM

mtw,

As I said, the turn based environment of the home team batting last already provides a home team advantage...

mtw · 05-07-2002, 06:46 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Henry:
mtw,

As I said, the turn based environment of the home team batting last already provides a home team advantage...<hr /></blockquote>I'm not certain that a last at-bat in a computer sim means the same thing as a last at-bat in real life. It would be interseting to know how many games are won in MLB in the home team's last at-bat.

My point was not so much a home field advantage, but losing the IMO illogical anti-5+ game winning streak factor and "reinventing" it as a home field advantage.

05-02-2002, 10:57 AM	#1
Jon277 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 158	Home Field Advantage?? Is playing at home really a good thing? Does you team play better at home? __________________ Jon Pass

05-02-2002, 10:59 AM	#2
Hammer755 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,348	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jon277: <strong>Is playing at home really a good thing? Does you team play better at home?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, home field advantage is not modeled in OOTP. There have been multiple threads discussing this, I'm sure you can find them using the board search. <small>[ 05-02-2002, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Hammer755 ]</small>

05-02-2002, 11:15 AM	#4
Hammer755 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,348	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by J P Falcon: <strong>The only benefit of home field is, of course, having the last at bat. Otherwise, I don't believe there is any home field advantage and should never be incorporated in a game. There are too many examples of home teams losing important games.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Statistics show there is a slight (but not insignificant) advantage to playing at home, but to incorporate it into a numerical sim model would be nearly impossible. <small>[ 05-02-2002, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: Hammer755 ]</small>

05-02-2002, 01:06 PM	#5
HolyCow98 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Douglasville, GA Posts: 2,735	In my first 4 seasons I was cumulatively about 20 games over .500. I think two of the years I had a better road record. The past two season I have been well over .500 at home, I think 45 games over. In my on going season this season I am 30-4 at home and 15-17 on the road. Go figure. I still don't think that there is an advantage at home other than the last at-bat though. __________________ NPBL Enjoying its 60th season Georgia GM

05-02-2002, 04:57 PM	#7
Andy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 2,270	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DarkFudge: <strong>JP...your right about baseball....numbers dont tend to support any kind of home field advantage consistantly throughout the entire league....However there is MOST certainly a Home field ( court ) advantage in NBA basketball and the numbers are definitely there. Its not a tangible/physical advantage but is most certainly a heavily induced psychological one that has a proven track record. I kind of find it odd that only Basketball has such a home advantage phenomina that no other sport seems to clearly have...anyone have any ideas why it seems to only be prevalent in Basketball?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good point.

05-02-2002, 11:10 AM	#3
J P Falcon Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 406	The only benefit of home field is, of course, having the last at bat. Otherwise, I don't believe there is any home field advantage and should never be incorporated in a game. There are too many examples of home teams losing important games.

05-02-2002, 04:56 PM	#6
DarkFudge Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 60	JP...your right about baseball....numbers dont tend to support any kind of home field advantage consistantly throughout the entire league....However there is MOST certainly a Home field ( court ) advantage in NBA basketball and the numbers are definitely there. Its not a tangible/physical advantage but is most certainly a heavily induced psychological one that has a proven track record. I kind of find it odd that only Basketball has such a home advantage phenomina that no other sport seems to clearly have...anyone have any ideas why it seems to only be prevalent in Basketball?

05-02-2002, 07:53 PM	#8
HMKRich Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia USA Posts: 21	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Andy: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DarkFudge: <strong>JP...your right about baseball....numbers dont tend to support any kind of home field advantage consistantly throughout the entire league....However there is MOST certainly a Home field ( court ) advantage in NBA basketball and the numbers are definitely there. Its not a tangible/physical advantage but is most certainly a heavily induced psychological one that has a proven track record. I kind of find it odd that only Basketball has such a home advantage phenomina that no other sport seems to clearly have...anyone have any ideas why it seems to only be prevalent in Basketball?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good point.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here's something i read and paraphrased: Prior to games/matches, players on the home team have testosterone levels 3x higher than the visiting team. Something about the protecting your home kinda thing. I guess that the "warior" mentality is not as prevelant in "the boys of summer" as in "gridiron wariors"; basketball's "street" and "getto" aspects probably accentuate the home field testosterone boost.

05-03-2002, 04:24 AM	#9
DarkFudge Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 60	Rich I dont doubt what your saying but I just find it hard to believe that what you paraphrased is the reason for the extremely bloated HOME advantages that you see in basketball because the greater testosterone levels that are prevelant before each game surely must get brought back down to earth of the course of an entire game that for the most part sees a number of momentum and streak swings for both teams but for some reason ends with the home team prevailing (considering both teams are generally pretty equal in terms of talent ) The players most certainly seem to feed their adrenalin rushes throughout the game from the crowd but whyso more in basketball than in any other sport? Could the fact that the art of consistantly shooting well is as much psychological as it is physical?....Are outside distractions much more of a hindrance/aid in the art of shooting a basketball then they are in any other sport?...what could be skew these stats so much in favor of Home advantages in basketball?

05-03-2002, 04:40 AM	#10
Kevin All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 503	I think it has a lot to do with the pace of play. Basketball and hockey are games where momentum and speed play a major part, both of which spark the fans, which in turn can help boost the players adrenalin level. Home ice in hockey also gives the shift change and faceoff advantages to the home team. __________________ It seems more like today than it did all day yesterday.

05-03-2002, 06:32 AM	#11
J P Falcon Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 406	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Kevin: <strong>I think it has a lot to do with the pace of play. Basketball and hockey are games where momentum and speed play a major part, both of which spark the fans, which in turn can help boost the players adrenalin level. Home ice in hockey also gives the shift change and faceoff advantages to the home team.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think in Ice Hockey, there is less of a home field advantage because a game can swing to the opponents very quickly if their goalie is "standing on his head".

05-03-2002, 06:46 AM	#12
Jon277 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 158	At home the players know their field better also. Players are definately more comfortable playing at a place that they know. I think at your home field players should have better range in the field since they play there more. __________________ Jon Pass

05-03-2002, 11:08 AM	#13
DarkFudge Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 60	btw....if you guys cant answer the home court advantage question, which do you think sells more and which do you prefer: Sprite or 7UP ?

05-07-2002, 05:27 AM	#14
Peter Bergstrom Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 27	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The only benefit of home field is, of course, having the last at bat. Otherwise, I don't believe there is any home field advantage and should never be incorporated in a game. There are too many examples of home teams losing important games.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry, JP. Statistics show that Home tems win 55-57% of the time year in, year out, in MLB. Though not as lop-sided a variable as in pro football or basketball it's definitely 'there'. It's inexplicable that OOTP, unlike Diamond Mind Baseball, has omitted this factor. It diminishes the value of beginning a series at home in the post-season.

05-07-2002, 05:32 AM	#15
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Peter Bergstrom: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The only benefit of home field is, of course, having the last at bat. Otherwise, I don't believe there is any home field advantage and should never be incorporated in a game. There are too many examples of home teams losing important games.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry, JP. Statistics show that Home tems win 55-57% of the time year in, year out, in MLB. Though not as lop-sided a variable as in pro football or basketball it's definitely 'there'. It's inexplicable that OOTP, unlike Diamond Mind Baseball, has omitted this factor. It diminishes the value of beginning a series at home in the post-season.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with your figures Peter, but the last-at-bat more than covers for this statistic... remember we're talking about a turn-based game here, not a clock-based game. <small>[ 05-07-2002, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Henry ]</small>

05-07-2002, 05:33 AM	#16
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,249	Why do we need three different threads saying the same things by the same posters? Here we go again... since people have stopped responding to my previous posts or the previous threads on this topic here they are: I would suggest that people read all three threads to see the arguments covered in each... The original thread stopped responding too (started by Peter Bergeron): <a href="http://www.400softwarestudios.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000594" target="_blank">http://www.400softwarestudios.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000594</a> The latest thread started by DarkFudge: <a href="http://www.400softwarestudios.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002658" target="_blank">http://www.400softwarestudios.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002658</a> In the end I do not support an artificial factor adjusting players ratings simply to buoy the home wins/loss percentage, at the expense of the results of the simulation.

05-07-2002, 05:48 AM	#17
mtw All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 653	Lose the unrealistic, arbitrary anti-winning streak factor and add it in as the more realistic home-field advantage factor. __________________ Over-Zealous Apologist

05-07-2002, 05:49 AM	#18
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,036	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ScottVib: <strong>Why do we need three different threads saying the same things by the same posters? Here we go again... since people have stopped responding to my previous posts or the previous threads on this topic here they are: I would suggest that people read all three threads to see the arguments covered in each... The original thread stopped responding too (started by Peter Bergeron): <a href="http://www.400softwarestudios.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000594" target="_blank">http://www.400softwarestudios.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000594 </a> The latest thread started by DarkFudge: <a href="http://www.400softwarestudios.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002658" target="_blank">http://www.400softwarestudios.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002658 </a> In the end I do not support an artificial factor adjusting players ratings simply to buoy the home wins/loss percentage, at the expense of the results of the simulation.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Agreed.... We don't need multiple topics on this. <small>[ 05-07-2002, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: Steve Kuffrey ]</small> __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

05-07-2002, 05:50 AM	#19
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	mtw, As I said, the turn based environment of the home team batting last already provides a home team advantage...

05-07-2002, 06:46 AM	#20
mtw All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 653	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Henry: <strong>mtw, As I said, the turn based environment of the home team batting last already provides a home team advantage...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not certain that a last at-bat in a computer sim means the same thing as a last at-bat in real life. It would be interseting to know how many games are won in MLB in the home team's last at-bat. My point was not so much a home field advantage, but losing the IMO illogical anti-5+ game winning streak factor and "reinventing" it as a home field advantage. __________________ Over-Zealous Apologist