Games Back... Cosmetic but not accurate....

[david limbaugh]

In game:

Cleveland Naps 6 1 .857 -
Philadelphia Athletics 8 2 .800 +1/2

should be:

Cleveland Naps 6 1 .857 1/2
Philadelphia Athletics 8 2 .800 -

[old timer]

Originally Posted by david limbaugh

In game:

Cleveland Naps 6 1 .857 -
Philadelphia Athletics 8 2 .800 +1/2

should be:

Cleveland Naps 6 1 .857 1/2
Philadelphia Athletics 8 2 .800 -

I think the +1/2 means the Athletics are 1/2 game ahead of Cleveland. The wild card standings work this way too, by the way.

[Critical Mass]

Originally Posted by david limbaugh

In game:

Cleveland Naps 6 1 .857 -
Philadelphia Athletics 8 2 .800 +1/2

should be:

Cleveland Naps 6 1 .857 1/2
Philadelphia Athletics 8 2 .800 -

No. Phila has lost one more game than Cleveland, but has won two more. Therefore, it's a half game.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by old timer

I think the +1/2 means the Athletics are 1/2 game ahead of Cleveland. The wild card standings work this way too, by the way.

Right, it's 100 percent accurate to list it as +1/2.

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Right, it's 100 percent accurate to list it as +1/2.

Yes. Teams are sorted by winning pct, since that's the actual sort order. But it's a lot easier to mark everyone but the top team relative to the top team. Especially when you add more teams - if you had a team 5-5, they'd be marked as 2.5 games back of Cleveland, even if they're 3 games behind Philly.

[r0nster]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Yes. Teams are sorted by winning pct, since that's the actual sort order. But it's a lot easier to mark everyone but the top team relative to the top team. Especially when you add more teams - if you had a team 5-5, they'd be marked as 2.5 games back of Cleveland, even if they're 3 games behind Philly.

and this has happened many times in real life well done Matt

[NoOne]

different # of games so it's apples and oranges, therefore a bit arbitrary which way it gets done. sounds like it's what they do in real life from above post?

you could argue both ways with some undeniable merits. a higher win pct. with fewer wins... can't assume a win or a loss in any proportion with such a limited difference in games played. whereas a higher win percentage is simply a higher win percentage, nonetheless.

i think the current way makes the most sense. it favors what has been done and locked in as opposed to what ifs and hasn't been yet. .5(w1-w2)+.5(L1-L2) = gb

once the typical variances in games played between any two teams is not a large enough proportion of total games played, it won't happen after that point. eyeballing, too tired to think about it.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Right, it's 100 percent accurate to list it as +1/2.

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Yes. Teams are sorted by winning pct, since that's the actual sort order. But it's a lot easier to mark everyone but the top team relative to the top team. Especially when you add more teams - if you had a team 5-5, they'd be marked as 2.5 games back of Cleveland, even if they're 3 games behind Philly.

It may be easier, it may be 'technically' accurate, but it is NOT in accordance with baseball practice. The games behind are determined based on club record and are assigned according to that record and are not corrected for position based on winning percentage. Below is a real-world example from 1978. It is the final first half standings of the North Division of the Florida State League. The standings are reproduced exactly as they were published in The Sporting News (July 8th issue, pg. 41).

                          W  L  Pct  GB
St. Petersburg Cardinals 41 25 .621    ½
Winter Haven Red Sox     45 28 .616  —  
Tampa Reds               43 28 .606   1
Lakeland Tigers          31 38 .449  12
Dunedin Blue Jays        29 43 .403  15½
Daytona Beach Astros     21 48 .304  22

St. Petersburg has the best winning percentage, and the standings were ordered by same, so it is at the top. But it was actually a half-game behind in terms of the standings calculation, and thus it is shown with a "½" beside it, and the team leading in terms of games behind is Winter Haven, so it gets the "—" beside it.

The TSN article accompanying the standings states, "St. Petersburg finished half a game behind Winter Haven in the first half of the Florida State League's North Division race June 20th—but still won a divisional championship. The Cardinals had a better winning percentage than did the Red Sox, although Winter Haven won four more games than St. Pete. Cardinal rain outs, which could not be rescheduled and made up before the second half of the split season opened on June 21st, cost the Red Sox, who played seven more games, but dropped three of them."

The opening post had it correct.


I've been of the opinion that OOTP should allow the user to select what method is used to order the standings. The three choices would be: (1) winning percentage; (2) games behind; (3) number of wins. All three have been used at one time or another. The NA and early NL years used number of wins; winning percentage is by far the most common; a few leagues, such as the Eastern League currently, use games behind to order standings.

To show the difference that results from these different methods, consider the real-life standings example below. It is also from 1978, showing the second half final standings of the South Division of the Florida State League.

Miami Orioles           38 30 .559  —
Fort Lauderdale Yankees 39 31 .557  —
Pompano Beach Cubs      37 33 .529  2
West Palm Beach Expos   34 36 .486  5
Fort Myers Royals       33 36 .478  5½
Daytona Beach           21 45 .318 16

If winning percentage is used to determine the division winner, then it is Miami. If number of wins is used, then Fort Lauderdale is the winner. If games behind is used, the two teams are tied and a tie-breaking playoff game would be needed.