20+ wins with no losses?!?

Hillbilly Nick · 03-24-2003, 02:36 PM

In my solo league I was scouring through the free agent starting pitchers when I came accross something that I had never previously (in my life) seen before. There was an older pitcher who was obviously nearing the end of his career. He was never a really great pitcher. Having a lot of 11-12 and 8-10 type of years. But there was one year that stood out. He finished 20-0, with a 1.94 ERA. This reminded of why I love OOTP. Because things like this can happen. Reminiscent of Brady Andersons 50 HR season, this guy dominated in just one of the many seasons he played. He never did anything like it before that, and never came close afterwards.

Has anybody else ever seen something similar? A pitcher having a undefeated super season out of nowhere, then fading back into obscurity? A position player hitting 50+ homeruns with an AVG of .350+, and never hitting more than 25 any other year?

Steve Kuffrey · 03-24-2003, 02:38 PM

Awesome....

LedgerSko · 03-24-2003, 03:07 PM

No but in one stretch of an OOTP fictional career Josh Beckett went 24-2, 22-4, 26-2, and 25-3, only to be outdone by mark Prior who was 24-1, 26-2, 23-2, 24-4.

Of course I did win 134 games in one of those seasons

CommishJoe · 03-24-2003, 03:22 PM

ugh .. figures you have to mention 2 players who I tried VERY hard to get during my rebuilding phase only to be denied.

Danys Baez went 12-0, lost 2 games, got hurt, then came back to finish the season 20-3.

Raidergoo · 03-24-2003, 03:38 PM

I am simming a league starting with the 1981 season and used the Lahman database as a jumping off point

For several years, Joe Price http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/pricejo02.shtml has been an above average middle reliever for the Reds. He had a better opinion of his talent than I did, and signed a two year deal with the Giants.

In 1989, he went 25-1. Ffor the second straight season his ERA is sub 2.00.

By the 1991 season, Price is the top paid player in the majors at 15 mil a year.

To say I misjudged him is an understatement.

Gastric ReFlux · 03-24-2003, 03:43 PM

Could this get moved to the Bug Forum? This should never happen.

CommishJoe · 03-24-2003, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gastric ReFlux
Could this get moved to the Bug Forum? This should never happen.

A player getting a ball to bounce off his head into the stands for a HR should never happen. As for an amazing season out of no where...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/stonest01.shtml

Sorry, but I don't see this as a bug.

dsvitak · 03-24-2003, 04:39 PM

Look up Elroy Face, who went 18-1 for the '59 Pirates.

The rest of his career he was 86-94.

Beach Boy · 03-24-2003, 04:42 PM

Amen. I absolutely LOVE the idea that a pitcher could pull together a season like that from out of nowhere. It happens. Rarely, fortunately, but it does happen.

SSG Troyer · 03-24-2003, 05:29 PM

I haven't seen someone come out of nowhere like that, but I did have one of my greatest pitchers of all time have one season where he went 26-0 in 35 starts, 2.34.

sixfour210 · 03-24-2003, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CommishJoe
A player getting a ball to bounce off his head into the stands for a HR should never happen. As for an amazing season out of no where...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/stonest01.shtml

Sorry, but I don't see this as a bug.

This guy had a slightly better ERA than he did the previous year and apparantly the team gave him a lot more run support that year. I don't think he pitched that much better though.

For pitchers, it's a toss up because one year they can be 25-7 and then 10-12 the next year because of a change in run support.

But for batters, I would like to see a Brady Anderson like career out of someone in ootp without there being an injury to cause the change. I know High Heat sometimes generates players to have career seasons and then fizzle out.

MrWorkrate · 03-24-2003, 06:24 PM

I don't know if I'd call it a total breakout season, but I had a SS by the name of Michael Brehm. He was a decent player, decent glove, and won RotY in his rookie season. He averaged 10 HR, .287 average for his first three full seasons.

His fourth full season (his walk year, by total "coincidence"), he bats .327, hits 24 HR, drives in over 100 runs, and cuts his strikeouts in half. He wanted more than I wanted to give him, so he went to free agency, where he ended up going for over a million dollars more than I was willing to offer back then. ($4,825,400)

So, what'd he do his first season with his new team? 12 HR, .281. Back to normal.

It's a realistic thing, and one of the things I like about OOTP. Players don't always play to their "ratings", especially their star ratings. In addition, players who put up regular numbers sometimes don't. Signing a .280/34/100 player and getting .280/34/100 every season might be good for winning, but isn't extremely realistic, and doesn't make for a good simulation.

magicmike · 03-24-2003, 07:01 PM

I agree with the sentiment that unpredictabiliy and variability over the course of a single player's career is one of the great things about OOTP, but I think the extreme degree can sometimes be troubling. I think that's what the folks who see this as a bug are getting at. I mean, Mark Prior goes 97-9 and Josh Becket goes 97-11 over a four year stretch? Brady Anderson is the poster child for inexplicable one season performances, but you have to admit that some of these results cross over to Twilight Zone territory.

SpaceNinja · 03-24-2003, 07:07 PM

Yeah, some of these numbers are as ridiculous as someone hitting 73 homeruns with a 1.379 OPS, or a 38-year old pitcher for an expansion team winning four consecutive Cy Youngs. Be realistic, Markus! Things like this just don't happen!

John C · 03-24-2003, 07:19 PM

Wow SpaceNinja, where'd you get crazy stories like that?

Man, you're CRAZY.

-John

bigphesta · 03-24-2003, 08:46 PM

Next some 35 year old will be a rookie after betting his high school baseball team that he'd try out if they made the playoffs.

Dargone · 03-24-2003, 08:50 PM

Steve Kuffrey · 03-24-2003, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigphesta
Next some 35 year old will be a rookie after betting his high school baseball team that he'd try out if they made the playoffs.

Now that sounds like something "Hollywood" would dream up.

03-24-2003, 02:36 PM	#1
Hillbilly Nick Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2002 Location: Oriole Country Posts: 72	20+ wins with no losses?!? In my solo league I was scouring through the free agent starting pitchers when I came accross something that I had never previously (in my life) seen before. There was an older pitcher who was obviously nearing the end of his career. He was never a really great pitcher. Having a lot of 11-12 and 8-10 type of years. But there was one year that stood out. He finished 20-0, with a 1.94 ERA. This reminded of why I love OOTP. Because things like this can happen. Reminiscent of Brady Andersons 50 HR season, this guy dominated in just one of the many seasons he played. He never did anything like it before that, and never came close afterwards. Has anybody else ever seen something similar? A pitcher having a undefeated super season out of nowhere, then fading back into obscurity? A position player hitting 50+ homeruns with an AVG of .350+, and never hitting more than 25 any other year? __________________ They called him the Human Vacuum Cleaner.

03-24-2003, 02:38 PM	#2
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,036	Awesome.... __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-24-2003, 03:22 PM	#4
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	ugh .. figures you have to mention 2 players who I tried VERY hard to get during my rebuilding phase only to be denied. Danys Baez went 12-0, lost 2 games, got hurt, then came back to finish the season 20-3. __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.

03-24-2003, 05:29 PM	#10
SSG Troyer All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Somewhere to the left of 2nd base Posts: 1,598	I haven't seen someone come out of nowhere like that, but I did have one of my greatest pitchers of all time have one season where he went 26-0 in 35 starts, 2.34. __________________ MWT Did Tennesee Delaware Mississppi's New Jersey? Idaho ... Alaska!

03-24-2003, 06:24 PM	#12
MrWorkrate All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,262	I don't know if I'd call it a total breakout season, but I had a SS by the name of Michael Brehm. He was a decent player, decent glove, and won RotY in his rookie season. He averaged 10 HR, .287 average for his first three full seasons. His fourth full season (his walk year, by total "coincidence"), he bats .327, hits 24 HR, drives in over 100 runs, and cuts his strikeouts in half. He wanted more than I wanted to give him, so he went to free agency, where he ended up going for over a million dollars more than I was willing to offer back then. ($4,825,400) So, what'd he do his first season with his new team? 12 HR, .281. Back to normal. It's a realistic thing, and one of the things I like about OOTP. Players don't always play to their "ratings", especially their star ratings. In addition, players who put up regular numbers sometimes don't. Signing a .280/34/100 player and getting .280/34/100 every season might be good for winning, but isn't extremely realistic, and doesn't make for a good simulation. __________________ I used to come here a lot. Now, not so much.

03-24-2003, 03:07 PM	#3
LedgerSko All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,085	No but in one stretch of an OOTP fictional career Josh Beckett went 24-2, 22-4, 26-2, and 25-3, only to be outdone by mark Prior who was 24-1, 26-2, 23-2, 24-4. Of course I did win 134 games in one of those seasons

03-24-2003, 03:38 PM	#5
Raidergoo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,005	I am simming a league starting with the 1981 season and used the Lahman database as a jumping off point For several years, Joe Price http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/pricejo02.shtml has been an above average middle reliever for the Reds. He had a better opinion of his talent than I did, and signed a two year deal with the Giants. In 1989, he went 25-1. Ffor the second straight season his ERA is sub 2.00. By the 1991 season, Price is the top paid player in the majors at 15 mil a year. To say I misjudged him is an understatement.

03-24-2003, 03:43 PM	#6
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	Could this get moved to the Bug Forum? This should never happen.

03-24-2003, 04:39 PM	#8
dsvitak Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,409	Look up Elroy Face, who went 18-1 for the '59 Pirates. The rest of his career he was 86-94.

03-24-2003, 04:42 PM	#9
Beach Boy Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Virginia Beach, Va. Posts: 49	Amen. I absolutely LOVE the idea that a pitcher could pull together a season like that from out of nowhere. It happens. Rarely, fortunately, but it does happen.

03-24-2003, 07:01 PM	#13
magicmike Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hawaii Posts: 365	I agree with the sentiment that unpredictabiliy and variability over the course of a single player's career is one of the great things about OOTP, but I think the extreme degree can sometimes be troubling. I think that's what the folks who see this as a bug are getting at. I mean, Mark Prior goes 97-9 and Josh Becket goes 97-11 over a four year stretch? Brady Anderson is the poster child for inexplicable one season performances, but you have to admit that some of these results cross over to Twilight Zone territory. __________________ aloha and mahalo HCBL Kansas City Royals 2003 AL Central Champs SMLB Houston Astros VLB Anaheim Angels UBL Pittsburgh Pirates "Barry Bonds? I'll tell you what, if he hit a home run off (Bob) Gibson or (Don) Drysdale and stood and admired it, they'd knock that earring out of his ear the next time up." - National League Umpire Doug Harvey

03-24-2003, 07:07 PM	#14
SpaceNinja Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 92	Yeah, some of these numbers are as ridiculous as someone hitting 73 homeruns with a 1.379 OPS, or a 38-year old pitcher for an expansion team winning four consecutive Cy Youngs. Be realistic, Markus! Things like this just don't happen!

03-24-2003, 07:19 PM	#15
John C Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Albion, RI Posts: 2,286 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	Wow SpaceNinja, where'd you get crazy stories like that? Man, you're CRAZY. -John __________________ Facebook \| My Videos

03-24-2003, 08:46 PM	#16
bigphesta Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Des Moines, Iowa Posts: 1,366	Next some 35 year old will be a rookie after betting his high school baseball team that he'd try out if they made the playoffs.

03-24-2003, 08:50 PM	#17
Dargone Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Interwebs Posts: 2,862	__________________ I was never one to patiently pick up broken fragments and glue them together again and tell myself that the mended whole was as good as new. What is broken is broken -- and I'd rather remember it as it was at its best than mend it and see the broken places as long as I lived.-Margaret Mitchell