WAR vs rWAR

DaBears · 09-21-2018, 05:44 AM

This is a really simple question, but I cannot find an explanation of what the game uses to create a difference in WAR and rWAR. The only thing I see online is that maybe rWAR refers to Baseball-Reference.com? What is rWAR?

bombboy85 · 09-21-2018, 07:33 AM

You're close. rWAR does pretty much in a roundabout way belong to baseball reference but the big difference between fWAR (WAR in this situation) and rWAR is how they are calculated.

fWAR uses FIP as a baseline to calculate WAR.

BBREF uses the actual runs a pitcher gives up and adjusts based on several factors such as the quality of defense behind them.

Below is a link to a really good description (the end has a good summary) of the differences and also convinced me that rWAR for pitchers is the way to go in my mind at least. FIP essentially doesn't record any non-strikeout outs in it's calculations which completely eradicates any pitcher skill in creating soft contact etc for guys that aren't fireballers.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/a...ed_pitch.shtml

Silfir · 09-21-2018, 07:46 AM

There is no universally agreed upon formula for WAR. The three most used WAR formulas, as far as I can tell, are fWAR (devised by fangraphs.com), rWAR (devised by baseball-reference.com) and WARP (devised by Baseball Prospectus).

What I don't know is which OOTP actually uses when it says "WAR", other than it can't be rWAR since it lists that separately. It's possible OOTP uses its very own formula.

-> Did some digging: Apparently OOTP uses fWAR for pitchers (without stating it) and its own (probably easier to calculate with the stats the game has access to) "oWAR" for position players.

bombboy85 · 09-21-2018, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silfir

There is no universally agreed upon formula for WAR. The three most used WAR formulas, as far as I can tell, are fWAR (devised by fangraphs.com), rWAR (devised by baseball-reference.com) and WARP (devised by Baseball Prospectus).

What I don't know is which OOTP actually uses when it says "WAR", other than it can't be rWAR since it lists that separately. It's possible OOTP uses its very own formula.

-> Did some digging: Apparently OOTP uses fWAR for pitchers (without stating it) and its own (probably easier to calculate with the stats the game has access to) "oWAR" for position players.

I don't think it's listed anywhere but I do remember them announcing starting the use of fWAR for pitchers for the release of OOTP 18

Matt Arnold · 09-21-2018, 10:00 AM

Yes, for pitchers WAR is a FIP-based WAR, and rWAR is a ra9-based WAR. Neither will 100% match what Fangraphs or B-ref put out, but they're intended to be similar.

So in the image at the top, Samardjiza 2017 had a good FIP, so his WAR rating is pretty good. But I'm guessing his ERA isn't great, and hence his rWAR being lower.

Cryomaniac · 09-21-2018, 11:39 AM

Go back to using VORP!

(I got reminded of VORP because of a conversation on r/Baseball the other day...)

battists · 09-21-2018, 01:34 PM

Just FYI, I updated this in the manual (Glossary page) just for future reference.

http://manuals.ootpdevelopments.com/...&page=glossary

DaBears · 09-21-2018, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

Just FYI, I updated this in the manual (Glossary page) just for future reference.

http://manuals.ootpdevelopments.com/...&page=glossary

Thank you to all for the information. I also prefer the runs-based model for WAR, so this is very helpful.

Interestingly, I did a search for WAR in the manual before posting this and got no results. I may have done something wrong.

Thanks again everyone.

actionjackson · 09-23-2018, 09:58 PM

Countdown to crusty curmudgeonly "WAR...What is it good for?..." post in 3...2...1...

battists · 09-24-2018, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBears

Thank you to all for the information. I also prefer the runs-based model for WAR, so this is very helpful.

Interestingly, I did a search for WAR in the manual before posting this and got no results. I may have done something wrong.

Thanks again everyone.

I’m not sure about the manual, but I know that some search engines won’t search for terms that are less than four characters or something. That might be why.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DaBears · 09-24-2018, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

I’m not sure about the manual, but I know that some search engines won’t search for terms that are less than four characters or something. That might be why.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did wonder about that, but no one spells out wins above replacement! We're all lazy these days.

Cryomaniac · 09-26-2018, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

I’m not sure about the manual, but I know that some search engines won’t search for terms that are less than four characters or something. That might be why.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The search function on this forum, for one.

09-21-2018, 05:44 AM	#1
DaBears All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 528	WAR vs rWAR This is a really simple question, but I cannot find an explanation of what the game uses to create a difference in WAR and rWAR. The only thing I see online is that maybe rWAR refers to Baseball-Reference.com? What is rWAR? Attached Images

09-21-2018, 11:39 AM	#6
Cryomaniac Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hucknall, Notts, UK Posts: 4,902	Go back to using VORP! (I got reminded of VORP because of a conversation on r/Baseball the other day...) __________________

09-21-2018, 01:34 PM	#7
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	Just FYI, I updated this in the manual (Glossary page) just for future reference. http://manuals.ootpdevelopments.com/...&page=glossary __________________ Come check out my dynasty report, Funky Times!

09-21-2018, 07:33 AM	#2
bombboy85 Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 455	You're close. rWAR does pretty much in a roundabout way belong to baseball reference but the big difference between fWAR (WAR in this situation) and rWAR is how they are calculated. fWAR uses FIP as a baseline to calculate WAR. BBREF uses the actual runs a pitcher gives up and adjusts based on several factors such as the quality of defense behind them. Below is a link to a really good description (the end has a good summary) of the differences and also convinced me that rWAR for pitchers is the way to go in my mind at least. FIP essentially doesn't record any non-strikeout outs in it's calculations which completely eradicates any pitcher skill in creating soft contact etc for guys that aren't fireballers. https://www.baseball-reference.com/a...ed_pitch.shtml

09-21-2018, 07:46 AM	#3
Silfir Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 137	There is no universally agreed upon formula for WAR. The three most used WAR formulas, as far as I can tell, are fWAR (devised by fangraphs.com), rWAR (devised by baseball-reference.com) and WARP (devised by Baseball Prospectus). What I don't know is which OOTP actually uses when it says "WAR", other than it can't be rWAR since it lists that separately. It's possible OOTP uses its very own formula. -> Did some digging: Apparently OOTP uses fWAR for pitchers (without stating it) and its own (probably easier to calculate with the stats the game has access to) "oWAR" for position players.

09-21-2018, 10:00 AM	#5
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 16,243	Yes, for pitchers WAR is a FIP-based WAR, and rWAR is a ra9-based WAR. Neither will 100% match what Fangraphs or B-ref put out, but they're intended to be similar. So in the image at the top, Samardjiza 2017 had a good FIP, so his WAR rating is pretty good. But I'm guessing his ERA isn't great, and hence his rWAR being lower.

09-23-2018, 09:58 PM	#9
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,179	Countdown to crusty curmudgeonly "WAR...What is it good for?..." post in 3...2...1...