The Curious Case of Adam Haseley

Cactusguy21 · 09-13-2018, 01:15 PM

So in the 2023-2024 offseason of my Orioles save, a strange thing happened. Yankees star left fielder Adam Haseley was not offered arbitration, in his first arb-eligible year.

A little background on Haseley: He was drafted by the Phillies and performed well in the minors. In the 2020-2021 offseason, after an impressive September debut, he was flipped to the Tigers for two jabroni infielders, in a surprising move. In Detroit, Haseley continued to be a solid player, posting 2.2 WAR over 128 games. Then, on Opening Day 2022, the Tigers traded him and a decent SS prospect to the Yankees for Marcus Stroman. Finally, someone was valuing Haseley as he deserved. Stroman went on to have two great seasons for Detroit.

In New York, Haseley's career took off. He posted 4.6 and 4.8 WAR in his two seasons there, leading the majors in OBP in 2023. Then, suddenly, the Yankees decided to let him go and not offer arbitration.

Enter my Orioles. I needed a new LF to replace the struggling Cedric Mullins and DJ Stewart. Haseley was rated by both my scout and by OSA as a very average, 3-star player. Because I still owed the recently cut Manny Machado over 100 million dollars, I had a tight budget, and Haseley only wanted 1.1 million. It wasn't until after I signed him to a minor league deal (that became a 1.1 million ML deal upon promotion) that I bothered to look at his stats. I realized I had just inadvertently signed the OBP king.

In Baltimore, he's never quite lived up to his gaudy New York stats, but is still a really, really good ballplayer. But he still is considered 3 stars for no reason, and other teams still refuse to value him highly at all (i've looked at trading him once or twice). None of his ratings are above 60 according to my scout. And yet he still regularly posts 4 WAR per season, despite being a very average defender at an easy position.

So, have any of you had a case like this, where scouts and teams totally underrate a player, no matter what he does? It's really, really weird.

TomVeal · 09-13-2018, 09:03 PM

What's your scouting set to? Unless it's 100 percent accurate, there's a chance that the game's scouts will undervalue (or overvalue) players.

Or Haseley may just be the beneficiary of a lucky streak.

Cactusguy21 · 09-13-2018, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomVeal

What's your scouting set to? Unless it's 100 percent accurate, there's a chance that the game's scouts will undervalue (or overvalue) players.

Or Haseley may just be the beneficiary of a lucky streak.

I have it set at normal settings, but I find it unlikely that after several years of dominance, both OSA and my highly-rated scout still place him as mediocre. It's weird.

Dyzalot · 09-13-2018, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cactusguy21

I have it set at normal settings, but I find it unlikely that after several years of dominance, both OSA and my highly-rated scout still place him as mediocre. It's weird.

I agree. While it makes sense for imperfect scouting to undervalue someone early in their career, such as Jose Altuve . There isn't a scout in baseball still undervaluing him to the same extent they did several years ago. There could still be some variance but that variance between scouts should get less and less the longer a player plays. And once a guy has put up several 4+ WAR seasons in a row, every scout should at least be evaluating him as an above average MLB starter.

Cactusguy21 · 11-14-2018, 06:25 PM

Update: So playing with a $10M arbitration salary, Haseley once again put up a strong OBP season, staying healthy most of the season, and ended up around 2+ WAR.

Offseason arrives, we let him test free agency. My team has so many outfielders, and I wanted to move top prospect Josh Cowart to the outfield as well, so letting him go made sense. He hits free agency, after something like 5 consecutive decent seasons.

Nothing.
Absolutely nothing.

I ended up re-signing him for 800k per year for 2 years.

What is up with this?

Here's his stats. He hit free agency in the 2026-2027 offseason. He then played the 2027 season, doing okay. Definitely a steal at a salary of 800k.

Cactusguy21 · 11-14-2018, 06:31 PM

His OSA ratings are 55/50/45/65/50, with decent speed and average corner outfield defense. His vLHP is a little weak, but not horrible.

Fyrestorm3 · 11-14-2018, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cactusguy21

So, have any of you had a case like this, where scouts and teams totally underrate a player, no matter what he does? It's really, really weird.

Happened to me back in OOTP15 or so, so I do not have screenshots. But third baseman Addison Maruszak (in real life a career minor league utility man), spent his first three years on the Yankees, going about .300/.330/.440, with ~10 homers and 60 RBI per year. Not a superstar, but an extremely serviceable player. At the beginning of his third year, the Yanks traded him for a washed-up reliever. I actually intervened at that point and edited him back onto New York because I just couldn't rationalize that deal. He hit arbitration at the end of that season and was awarded just $750k. Then the Yankees once again dealt him away for next to nothing.

I finally had enough and traded for him myself, giving up a very good reliever and a prospect. He wasn't as good as he was in New York, but he was steady, if unspectacular. Yet he never made more than $1M in arbitration, and when I let him walk 3 years later, he had a .275 career average and somehow never found another major league gig.

So yeah, I've seen it happen. It was even more bizarre because I crank up the AI Eval settings to favor stats over ratings. Even with scouting on, some team should have been able to use a .275 hitter at 3B.

jeter6970 · 11-15-2018, 06:15 AM

I feel like the game places too much worth on power and not enough on contact. That certainly makes sense in today's world. If you hit 30 plus home runs it doesn't matter that you strikeout 150 plus times.

I like to collect players with 60 plus contact ratings and if they have 50 plus power I'm good with them as well. I also play historical (random debut) because I like the way the game was played during the expansion era of the late 50s/early 60s through the 80s.

I had a player rated as a 1.5 star CF who had a 65 contact and 50 power rating. When he was drafted he originally had 3.5 star potential, but that lowered to 1.5 as well when his power didn't develop (potential was 65). He was very fast and was my lead off hitter. Over a 5 year period he hit .280 or better each year (with 2 years over .300) scored over 100 runs and hit 12 plus homers each year (including one year where he hit 20) His OBP was over .380 in 4 of the 5 years and he stole 30 plus bases each year. However, I was consistently listed with the 18th (out of 20) best CF and my owner kept giving me the goal to improve that position. I ignored it.

mmarra82 · 11-15-2018, 08:52 AM

His OBP the last season would have put him in the top 10. His career OPS+ puts him ahead of the curve. At 800K you found some value.

Critical Mass · 11-18-2018, 09:34 AM

Maybe he kneels during the National Anthem and is blackballed?

Cactusguy21 · 11-18-2018, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Critical Mass

Maybe he kneels during the National Anthem and is blackballed?

Yeah, but he's actually a starting caliber player, so he'd still get signed.

09-13-2018, 01:15 PM	#1
Cactusguy21 Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 332	The Curious Case of Adam Haseley So in the 2023-2024 offseason of my Orioles save, a strange thing happened. Yankees star left fielder Adam Haseley was not offered arbitration, in his first arb-eligible year. A little background on Haseley: He was drafted by the Phillies and performed well in the minors. In the 2020-2021 offseason, after an impressive September debut, he was flipped to the Tigers for two jabroni infielders, in a surprising move. In Detroit, Haseley continued to be a solid player, posting 2.2 WAR over 128 games. Then, on Opening Day 2022, the Tigers traded him and a decent SS prospect to the Yankees for Marcus Stroman. Finally, someone was valuing Haseley as he deserved. Stroman went on to have two great seasons for Detroit. In New York, Haseley's career took off. He posted 4.6 and 4.8 WAR in his two seasons there, leading the majors in OBP in 2023. Then, suddenly, the Yankees decided to let him go and not offer arbitration. Enter my Orioles. I needed a new LF to replace the struggling Cedric Mullins and DJ Stewart. Haseley was rated by both my scout and by OSA as a very average, 3-star player. Because I still owed the recently cut Manny Machado over 100 million dollars, I had a tight budget, and Haseley only wanted 1.1 million. It wasn't until after I signed him to a minor league deal (that became a 1.1 million ML deal upon promotion) that I bothered to look at his stats. I realized I had just inadvertently signed the OBP king. In Baltimore, he's never quite lived up to his gaudy New York stats, but is still a really, really good ballplayer. But he still is considered 3 stars for no reason, and other teams still refuse to value him highly at all (i've looked at trading him once or twice). None of his ratings are above 60 according to my scout. And yet he still regularly posts 4 WAR per season, despite being a very average defender at an easy position. So, have any of you had a case like this, where scouts and teams totally underrate a player, no matter what he does? It's really, really weird. Last edited by Cactusguy21; 09-13-2018 at 01:16 PM.

11-14-2018, 06:25 PM	#5
Cactusguy21 Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 332	Update: So playing with a $10M arbitration salary, Haseley once again put up a strong OBP season, staying healthy most of the season, and ended up around 2+ WAR. Offseason arrives, we let him test free agency. My team has so many outfielders, and I wanted to move top prospect Josh Cowart to the outfield as well, so letting him go made sense. He hits free agency, after something like 5 consecutive decent seasons. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I ended up re-signing him for 800k per year for 2 years. What is up with this? Here's his stats. He hit free agency in the 2026-2027 offseason. He then played the 2027 season, doing okay. Definitely a steal at a salary of 800k. Last edited by Cactusguy21; 11-14-2018 at 06:29 PM.

09-13-2018, 09:03 PM	#2
TomVeal All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Spanaway, Washington Posts: 1,257	What's your scouting set to? Unless it's 100 percent accurate, there's a chance that the game's scouts will undervalue (or overvalue) players. Or Haseley may just be the beneficiary of a lucky streak.

11-14-2018, 06:31 PM	#6
Cactusguy21 Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 332	His OSA ratings are 55/50/45/65/50, with decent speed and average corner outfield defense. His vLHP is a little weak, but not horrible.

11-15-2018, 06:15 AM	#8
jeter6970 Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2004 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 69	I feel like the game places too much worth on power and not enough on contact. That certainly makes sense in today's world. If you hit 30 plus home runs it doesn't matter that you strikeout 150 plus times. I like to collect players with 60 plus contact ratings and if they have 50 plus power I'm good with them as well. I also play historical (random debut) because I like the way the game was played during the expansion era of the late 50s/early 60s through the 80s. I had a player rated as a 1.5 star CF who had a 65 contact and 50 power rating. When he was drafted he originally had 3.5 star potential, but that lowered to 1.5 as well when his power didn't develop (potential was 65). He was very fast and was my lead off hitter. Over a 5 year period he hit .280 or better each year (with 2 years over .300) scored over 100 runs and hit 12 plus homers each year (including one year where he hit 20) His OBP was over .380 in 4 of the 5 years and he stole 30 plus bases each year. However, I was consistently listed with the 18th (out of 20) best CF and my owner kept giving me the goal to improve that position. I ignored it.

11-15-2018, 08:52 AM	#9
mmarra82 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 310	His OBP the last season would have put him in the top 10. His career OPS+ puts him ahead of the curve. At 800K you found some value.

11-18-2018, 09:34 AM	#10
Critical Mass Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 273	Maybe he kneels during the National Anthem and is blackballed?