Hoping This Game Becomes So Much More

Lawn Loaf · 07-10-2018, 11:47 PM

I'm not that old.

My baseball history starts with collecting baseball cards in the late 80's.
My brother and I saved up chore money to buy the Topps 1989 full set of baseball cards
We didn't give much of a crap for saving the cards for collection, no we set up a dice game with charts for outcomes and used the cards as you would figurines. Cory Snyder was an all time favorite, as was Julio Franco, but then again the Indians were the powerhouse, maybe because we thought the movie Major League was the best at the time?

Then we found out about Sherco, saved through chores and bought that game.
Now we had cards plus Sherco to give us a universe worth of outcomes, it was heaven.
The only thing missing was the actual stadium models, but a floor space with specific background or a couch worked to replicate the ballpark.

Then Tony LaRussa Baseball came out for the PC, and we were blown away. Forget the manual score keeping, and card management, it was now all on our computer. Not to mention actual ballparks!

Then High Heat, and finally the electronic masterpiece MVP 2005.
I'm stuck on the MVP 05 is the best game ever bandwagon, I've gone as far as to update the rosters for my PS2 manually every year using the rating calculators available on MVPMods. Sucks you can't change appearance but the game works well, a true proven masterpiece.
Even shelled out good cash to but a copy of MVP 05 for the PC, but have yet to use it.

This brings my point, just tonight playing a game from my 2008 season as the Twins on my PS2 MVP 05 league, and tied 3-3 against the Pirates, Morneau comes up with Mauer on 1st. I am stressing this situation, as I hate extra inning games. Pirates closer Matt Capps already has been shelled and gave up a 3-1 lead. Morneau goes up 2-0 on the count, rears back and steps outside for pitch 3, rails it for a 408' blast into the right field stands at PNC park! And mind you, I play on MVP challenge settings.
5-3, Nathan closes it out, 3 game streak for the Twinkies!

My point being, I have all hope and have full endorsement for OOTP to develop into a game where YOU and your skills, if you so choose, controlling the player, has a direct impact on the game, you are in control of the Player!
Not to dissuade the OOTP old timers, or purists, but if this game really wants to develop a live action 3D game, especially with the depth that can only be dreamed of, putting to shame all other baseball games, I will be a loyal consumer for life!

nutt · 07-11-2018, 12:47 AM

I was stuck on High Heat 2002 for years thanks to baseball sim central and the rosters and uniform mods. I created a World League, had about 16 teams I think (two special teams: Cooperstown Legends which featured recently retired players that were hidden, and an all custom team that was a combination of my Senior/Big League teammates and HS teammates, and an all European team). I played that endlessly until about 2004.

OOTP to me has limitless potential now that we have international and club tournaments.

Maybe they can update Associations or allow us to have Winter League tournaments involving those club teams

Lawn Loaf · 07-11-2018, 01:54 AM

OOTP modification options are endless. I spend hours creating leagues and feeders, trying to build a 2000+ team universe.
This game has everything going for it, my point is I hope one day I can be in the batters eye of some random HS feeder player, controlling him in 3D mode, as my skills are able.

nutt · 07-11-2018, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawn Loaf

OOTP modification options are endless. I spend hours creating leagues and feeders, trying to build a 2000+ team universe.
This game has everything going for it, my point is I hope one day I can be in the batters eye of some random HS feeder player, controlling him in 3D mode, as my skills are able.

I'm working on a real-life mod right now that's probably half semi-pro, half real and deep dive to build the players and get stats seems to more worth while than playing at times. Some teams can take 45 minutes, others can take nearly three hours.

On top of that, collecting stats for players that are already in the game and creating a spreadsheet sometimes can be draining but fun.

Markus Heinsohn · 07-11-2018, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawn Loaf

Not to dissuade the OOTP old timers, or purists, but if this game really wants to develop a live action 3D game, especially with the depth that can only be dreamed of, putting to shame all other baseball games, I will be a loyal consumer for life!

Well, the problem is that this would take many many years to do right and even more money.

The only chance I see for this to happen would be if Sony (MLB The Show) or MLB (RBI Baseball) would go ahead, make us an offer we can't refuse and merge OOTP with their game.

Bluenoser · 07-11-2018, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawn Loaf

I'm not that old.

My baseball history starts with collecting baseball cards in the late 80's.
My brother and I saved up chore money to buy the Topps 1989 full set of baseball cards
We didn't give much of a crap for saving the cards for collection, no we set up a dice game with charts for outcomes and used the cards as you would figurines. Cory Snyder was an all time favorite, as was Julio Franco, but then again the Indians were the powerhouse, maybe because we thought the movie Major League was the best at the time?

Then we found out about Sherco, saved through chores and bought that game.
Now we had cards plus Sherco to give us a universe worth of outcomes, it was heaven.
The only thing missing was the actual stadium models, but a floor space with specific background or a couch worked to replicate the ballpark.

Then Tony LaRussa Baseball came out for the PC, and we were blown away. Forget the manual score keeping, and card management, it was now all on our computer. Not to mention actual ballparks!

Then High Heat, and finally the electronic masterpiece MVP 2005.
I'm stuck on the MVP 05 is the best game ever bandwagon, I've gone as far as to update the rosters for my PS2 manually every year using the rating calculators available on MVPMods. Sucks you can't change appearance but the game works well, a true proven masterpiece.
Even shelled out good cash to but a copy of MVP 05 for the PC, but have yet to use it.

This brings my point, just tonight playing a game from my 2008 season as the Twins on my PS2 MVP 05 league, and tied 3-3 against the Pirates, Morneau comes up with Mauer on 1st. I am stressing this situation, as I hate extra inning games. Pirates closer Matt Capps already has been shelled and gave up a 3-1 lead. Morneau goes up 2-0 on the count, rears back and steps outside for pitch 3, rails it for a 408' blast into the right field stands at PNC park! And mind you, I play on MVP challenge settings.
5-3, Nathan closes it out, 3 game streak for the Twinkies!

My point being, I have all hope and have full endorsement for OOTP to develop into a game where YOU and your skills, if you so choose, controlling the player, has a direct impact on the game, you are in control of the Player!
Not to dissuade the OOTP old timers, or purists, but if this game really wants to develop a live action 3D game, especially with the depth that can only be dreamed of, putting to shame all other baseball games, I will be a loyal consumer for life!

Not to dissuade the young and uninformed, but if this game ever develops into a full live action 3D game, a lot of the "old timers" will leave.

What you fail to realize there is more than one niche when it comes to baseball games. Some like full blown 3D, some don't.

Those that don't migrated to OOTP a long time ago (I guess that's why we're "old" timers). Zero interest in full blown 3D.

Those that liked the full blown 3D experience could enjoy EA Sports and other 3D type baseball games.

Thank goodness Markus is one of the "Old Timers" and realizes this.

low · 07-11-2018, 08:10 AM

I've always wanted a best-of-both-worlds sports game, but it's never going to happen. I've accepted it.

james17 · 07-11-2018, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Well, the problem is that this would take many many years to do right and even more money.

The only chance I see for this to happen would be if Sony (MLB The Show) or MLB (RBI Baseball) would go ahead, make us an offer we can't refuse and merge OOTP with their game.

And if Sony or RBI Baseball got involved they’d probably screw up the sim part. I really do like OOTP just the way it is.

saturn2187 · 07-11-2018, 08:49 AM

i think if Sony makes them an offer they can't refuse, they won't refuse. As much is said by Markus in his post.

Of course the 'old timers' are important to them at current, but it's a business.... and if the offer is too good to turn down, well....

BaseballGoodToMe · 07-11-2018, 09:09 AM

No I hope this game never becomes "twitch" based, because then every player is basically the same as they're all you. League statistics skew and your team ends up at the top or bottom and too far from the rest of the league, because you're either that good or that bad and the only factors that would matter would be pitcher velocity, hitter power, and speed.

cheo25 · 07-11-2018, 09:36 AM

I love how the game has evolved. It has something for almost everyone. If you don't like 3D, you don't have to have it. If you do like it, there is growth potential there.

Personally, I like leaving it up to the players to determine how the season will go as I sit in my God-like commissioner's perch and get immersed in the day-to-day happenings. I like simming one "Game of the Week" on Saturday afternoons in 3D and trying to enrich that experience (with Silvam/adion's historical stadiums and my own audio clipping of PA player announcements). And I'm perfectly fine with some animation but not to the point where the game is about the animation.

If it did become an arcade-type game, that would be a huge disappointment for me personally, but I understand it from a business standpoint. Thankfully, I still have the last six or seven versions available that I could always go back to one of those. I fell in love with this game because of the historical simulation part of it, and that will always be my first love with this game.

NotMuchTime · 07-11-2018, 10:29 AM

The second 3D impacts 'simulation', it's no good. One major problem, and I don't know if this exist with OOTP, is when the results of 'background simulated' games don't match the results of games 'played out' (over the course of a season). Especially if I don't manage the games and 'watch' all 162 of them, the overall results should closely match the overall results of 'simulating' all 162 games. In other words, the simulation engine and game engine have to be almost identical. As an example, I don't want a player to strike out 200 times if I sim all 162 games and 120 times if I play the games out.

It's possible, but not an easy task. Predetermination and a single engine might be one way. This was a HUGE issue with High Heat Baseball. Remember the 'sliders' file? Pitchers would average 6 or 7 pitches an inning with the default sliders. Fun game though.

Sidenote: As for us old timers, when I grew up, if I wanted an autograph, I just sent a post card/letter to the player and most every time I'd get an autographed post card back. You didn't even need an address. Frank Robinson, no problem. Just send it to Frank Robinson, C/O Baltimore Orioles, Baltimore Md. and you were good to go. I doubt they'd even deliver it these days, and I doubt you'd get anything back if they did.

Critical Mass · 07-11-2018, 11:15 AM

No love for MicroLeague Baseball and the Hardball series? Disappointed.

SirMichaelJordan · 07-11-2018, 11:30 AM

I used to play cpu vs cpu on console sports games. They didn’t offer the depth that I was looking for and that eventually lead me to games like FM and OOTPB. I guess I am not an old timer since I came from the 3D cpu vs cpu crowd. At the end of the day the game have room to evolve. IMO, it’s really no different from guys who enjoy text sims who came from card based games or electronic football type of games. It’s just a difficult era and technology is evolving...

Who knows, if they got a dream offer, then maybe it will be a new game created with OOTP’s depth but still have OOTP available and text sim focused. Somewhat similar to Madden and NFL Head Coach from years ago.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IanIachimoe · 07-11-2018, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Critical Mass

No love for MicroLeague Baseball and the Hardball series? Disappointed.

loved both. many hours spent playing Hardball for sure.

prefer OOTP just how it is, an Owner/GM/Manager sim.

Lawn Loaf · 07-11-2018, 12:29 PM

I was more or less just dreaming of a time in the (maybe) not to distant future where I could enjoy playing out a game of OOTP in first person view and in charge of my players actions. It's honestly the best baseball sim game I have ever played. I spend way more hours on this game than a grown man should for sure, but that shows to me the legitimacy of how awesome and enthralling this game is.
Didn't mean to use the word "old timers" as derogatory, I meant it as the players who have been around and stuck with this game from the early days, and I mean great respect, because without you old timers support, modifications, and feedback, this newbie would have never had the opportunity to play this game.
Also would like to say the developers of this game are first class. They are just like the poster who described sending post cards to players for autographs, and getting a signature back. These guys are always spot on in their awareness and concern for how the players of their game feel, and always respond to questions or bugs.
Regardless of 3D views, many thanks for the great experience this game provides. I'll still be a customer for life!

andyhdz · 07-11-2018, 01:43 PM

Not sure on this one. if you can take over a player and smash some buttons so he can hit a homerun it's not really a simulation anymore is it? When I want to do that I fireup Super Mega Baseball II. Don't let the name fool you it's probably the best baseball game since High Heat in terms of trying to capture the essence of a baseball game.

dkgo · 07-11-2018, 01:46 PM

what is the point of managing a franchise when every "player" is just equal to how good you are at playing the game?

jimmysthebestcop · 07-11-2018, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Well, the problem is that this would take many many years to do right and even more money.

The only chance I see for this to happen would be if Sony (MLB The Show) or MLB (RBI Baseball) would go ahead, make us an offer we can't refuse and merge OOTP with their game.

I know Baseball Mogul engine was in 2 or 3 games back in the day I think between 2001 and 2005 or something so ancient history in terms of gaming. Think it was a Microsoft Baseball game and Midways Slugfest.

So its probably possible but the AAA guys probably realize now that most of the console players don't really care about running franchises its all PvP these days.

Take a look at Madden their franchise mode instead of improving the last decade has declined. NCAA Football was a heavy franchise football game and it hasn't even been published since 2014 partly due to licensing but they could have released it without licenses and names. But its all about multiplayer in AAA Sports game while single player often gets overlooked.

Lawn Loaf · 07-11-2018, 02:51 PM

I don't think being able to play out games as the players would have a detrimental effect on the sim. What I'm saying is you would incorporate both, with the option to chose either style based on the user's preference.
As for the sim only being as good as your skills for mashing buttons, the individual player ratings play a big effect. I never win out all the time, loose quite a few games. The staple for me is the pitching strategy, and pitch placement. My teams as a whole generally hit below .250.
Which I can understand as being directly correlated to my skills, which after years are disappointingly sub par, but there is a degree of variance incorporating the players ratings and skills also.
And I am not some Modern console gamer, and have no interest in P2P online games. I despise the fact Madden has gone graphics over AI, and convenience of gameplay. I stick to PC, and the ever trusty PS2 for my Madden and NCAA kick.
To be perfectly clear now that I look back to the reason for my post, I was simply playing some console MVP2005 last night and thinking, wow, wouldn't it be awesome to play OOTP like this with all the depth and modification that it provides? Playing MLB, Minors, International, NCAA, HS Feeders all in one awesome world, on one game?
A man can dream, can he not?

07-10-2018, 11:47 PM	#1
Lawn Loaf Banned Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: God's Country Posts: 2,118 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	Hoping This Game Becomes So Much More I'm not that old. My baseball history starts with collecting baseball cards in the late 80's. My brother and I saved up chore money to buy the Topps 1989 full set of baseball cards We didn't give much of a crap for saving the cards for collection, no we set up a dice game with charts for outcomes and used the cards as you would figurines. Cory Snyder was an all time favorite, as was Julio Franco, but then again the Indians were the powerhouse, maybe because we thought the movie Major League was the best at the time? Then we found out about Sherco, saved through chores and bought that game. Now we had cards plus Sherco to give us a universe worth of outcomes, it was heaven. The only thing missing was the actual stadium models, but a floor space with specific background or a couch worked to replicate the ballpark. Then Tony LaRussa Baseball came out for the PC, and we were blown away. Forget the manual score keeping, and card management, it was now all on our computer. Not to mention actual ballparks! Then High Heat, and finally the electronic masterpiece MVP 2005. I'm stuck on the MVP 05 is the best game ever bandwagon, I've gone as far as to update the rosters for my PS2 manually every year using the rating calculators available on MVPMods. Sucks you can't change appearance but the game works well, a true proven masterpiece. Even shelled out good cash to but a copy of MVP 05 for the PC, but have yet to use it. This brings my point, just tonight playing a game from my 2008 season as the Twins on my PS2 MVP 05 league, and tied 3-3 against the Pirates, Morneau comes up with Mauer on 1st. I am stressing this situation, as I hate extra inning games. Pirates closer Matt Capps already has been shelled and gave up a 3-1 lead. Morneau goes up 2-0 on the count, rears back and steps outside for pitch 3, rails it for a 408' blast into the right field stands at PNC park! And mind you, I play on MVP challenge settings. 5-3, Nathan closes it out, 3 game streak for the Twinkies! My point being, I have all hope and have full endorsement for OOTP to develop into a game where YOU and your skills, if you so choose, controlling the player, has a direct impact on the game, you are in control of the Player! Not to dissuade the OOTP old timers, or purists, but if this game really wants to develop a live action 3D game, especially with the depth that can only be dreamed of, putting to shame all other baseball games, I will be a loyal consumer for life!

07-11-2018, 10:29 AM	#12
NotMuchTime Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 150	The second 3D impacts 'simulation', it's no good. One major problem, and I don't know if this exist with OOTP, is when the results of 'background simulated' games don't match the results of games 'played out' (over the course of a season). Especially if I don't manage the games and 'watch' all 162 of them, the overall results should closely match the overall results of 'simulating' all 162 games. In other words, the simulation engine and game engine have to be almost identical. As an example, I don't want a player to strike out 200 times if I sim all 162 games and 120 times if I play the games out. It's possible, but not an easy task. Predetermination and a single engine might be one way. This was a HUGE issue with High Heat Baseball. Remember the 'sliders' file? Pitchers would average 6 or 7 pitches an inning with the default sliders. Fun game though. Sidenote: As for us old timers, when I grew up, if I wanted an autograph, I just sent a post card/letter to the player and most every time I'd get an autographed post card back. You didn't even need an address. Frank Robinson, no problem. Just send it to Frank Robinson, C/O Baltimore Orioles, Baltimore Md. and you were good to go. I doubt they'd even deliver it these days, and I doubt you'd get anything back if they did. Last edited by NotMuchTime; 07-11-2018 at 10:32 AM.

07-11-2018, 11:30 AM	#14
SirMichaelJordan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,716	Hoping This Game Becomes So Much More I used to play cpu vs cpu on console sports games. They didn’t offer the depth that I was looking for and that eventually lead me to games like FM and OOTPB. I guess I am not an old timer since I came from the 3D cpu vs cpu crowd. At the end of the day the game have room to evolve. IMO, it’s really no different from guys who enjoy text sims who came from card based games or electronic football type of games. It’s just a difficult era and technology is evolving... Who knows, if they got a dream offer, then maybe it will be a new game created with OOTP’s depth but still have OOTP available and text sim focused. Somewhat similar to Madden and NFL Head Coach from years ago. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Last edited by SirMichaelJordan; 07-11-2018 at 11:35 AM.

07-11-2018, 12:29 PM	#16
Lawn Loaf Banned Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: God's Country Posts: 2,118 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	Not saying I'm disappointed with this game as it is at all I was more or less just dreaming of a time in the (maybe) not to distant future where I could enjoy playing out a game of OOTP in first person view and in charge of my players actions. It's honestly the best baseball sim game I have ever played. I spend way more hours on this game than a grown man should for sure, but that shows to me the legitimacy of how awesome and enthralling this game is. Didn't mean to use the word "old timers" as derogatory, I meant it as the players who have been around and stuck with this game from the early days, and I mean great respect, because without you old timers support, modifications, and feedback, this newbie would have never had the opportunity to play this game. Also would like to say the developers of this game are first class. They are just like the poster who described sending post cards to players for autographs, and getting a signature back. These guys are always spot on in their awareness and concern for how the players of their game feel, and always respond to questions or bugs. Regardless of 3D views, many thanks for the great experience this game provides. I'll still be a customer for life!

07-11-2018, 01:46 PM	#18
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	what is the point of managing a franchise when every "player" is just equal to how good you are at playing the game? Last edited by dkgo; 07-11-2018 at 01:47 PM.

07-11-2018, 12:47 AM	#2
nutt OOTP Roster Team Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 2,263	I was stuck on High Heat 2002 for years thanks to baseball sim central and the rosters and uniform mods. I created a World League, had about 16 teams I think (two special teams: Cooperstown Legends which featured recently retired players that were hidden, and an all custom team that was a combination of my Senior/Big League teammates and HS teammates, and an all European team). I played that endlessly until about 2004. OOTP to me has limitless potential now that we have international and club tournaments. Maybe they can update Associations or allow us to have Winter League tournaments involving those club teams

07-11-2018, 01:54 AM	#3
Lawn Loaf Banned Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: God's Country Posts: 2,118 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	OOTP modification options are endless. I spend hours creating leagues and feeders, trying to build a 2000+ team universe. This game has everything going for it, my point is I hope one day I can be in the batters eye of some random HS feeder player, controlling him in 3D mode, as my skills are able.

07-11-2018, 08:10 AM	#7
low Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 6,244	I've always wanted a best-of-both-worlds sports game, but it's never going to happen. I've accepted it.

07-11-2018, 08:49 AM	#9
saturn2187 All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 531	i think if Sony makes them an offer they can't refuse, they won't refuse. As much is said by Markus in his post. Of course the 'old timers' are important to them at current, but it's a business.... and if the offer is too good to turn down, well....

07-11-2018, 09:09 AM	#10
BaseballGoodToMe Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 97	No I hope this game never becomes "twitch" based, because then every player is basically the same as they're all you. League statistics skew and your team ends up at the top or bottom and too far from the rest of the league, because you're either that good or that bad and the only factors that would matter would be pitcher velocity, hitter power, and speed.

07-11-2018, 09:36 AM	#11
cheo25 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,328	I love how the game has evolved. It has something for almost everyone. If you don't like 3D, you don't have to have it. If you do like it, there is growth potential there. Personally, I like leaving it up to the players to determine how the season will go as I sit in my God-like commissioner's perch and get immersed in the day-to-day happenings. I like simming one "Game of the Week" on Saturday afternoons in 3D and trying to enrich that experience (with Silvam/adion's historical stadiums and my own audio clipping of PA player announcements). And I'm perfectly fine with some animation but not to the point where the game is about the animation. If it did become an arcade-type game, that would be a huge disappointment for me personally, but I understand it from a business standpoint. Thankfully, I still have the last six or seven versions available that I could always go back to one of those. I fell in love with this game because of the historical simulation part of it, and that will always be my first love with this game.

07-11-2018, 11:15 AM	#13
Critical Mass Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 273	No love for MicroLeague Baseball and the Hardball series? Disappointed.

07-11-2018, 01:43 PM	#17
andyhdz All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Fresno, CA by way of Texas Posts: 1,754	Not sure on this one. if you can take over a player and smash some buttons so he can hit a homerun it's not really a simulation anymore is it? When I want to do that I fireup Super Mega Baseball II. Don't let the name fool you it's probably the best baseball game since High Heat in terms of trying to capture the essence of a baseball game.

07-11-2018, 02:51 PM	#20
Lawn Loaf Banned Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: God's Country Posts: 2,118 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	I don't think being able to play out games as the players would have a detrimental effect on the sim. What I'm saying is you would incorporate both, with the option to chose either style based on the user's preference. As for the sim only being as good as your skills for mashing buttons, the individual player ratings play a big effect. I never win out all the time, loose quite a few games. The staple for me is the pitching strategy, and pitch placement. My teams as a whole generally hit below .250. Which I can understand as being directly correlated to my skills, which after years are disappointingly sub par, but there is a degree of variance incorporating the players ratings and skills also. And I am not some Modern console gamer, and have no interest in P2P online games. I despise the fact Madden has gone graphics over AI, and convenience of gameplay. I stick to PC, and the ever trusty PS2 for my Madden and NCAA kick. To be perfectly clear now that I look back to the reason for my post, I was simply playing some console MVP2005 last night and thinking, wow, wouldn't it be awesome to play OOTP like this with all the depth and modification that it provides? Playing MLB, Minors, International, NCAA, HS Feeders all in one awesome world, on one game? A man can dream, can he not?