Dubious scoring - need to get smarter minds involved

Westheim · 04-26-2018, 05:36 AM

The following weird-ass play developed (in OOTP 16) just now, and I can't remember something like that in the thousands of games I have played out. The thing that boggles my mind is that Elias Tovias got an RBI for his efforts here, and I think he should not have gotten it. (see below)

Opinions?

TomVeal · 04-26-2018, 08:17 AM

According to the definition of "run batted in" on MLB.com, "A player does not receive an RBI when the run scores as a result of an error or ground into double play."

Scorekeepers do make mistakes. Perhaps, in its quest for realism, OOTP includes that feature.

Qeltar · 04-26-2018, 10:18 AM

Edit, I totally misread the play. (It's a bit confusing.)

I thought the guy on 1B scored (which itself is complex if an error occurs throwing home.) But this does sound like there should be no RBI.

joefromchicago · 04-26-2018, 10:26 AM

There's no way Tovias gets an RBI on this play. The only way that a batter can get an RBI for driving himself in is if he hits a home run. This, however, is a play where there's a man on first when Tovias hits a double. So that's the only guy that Tovias could drive in to get an RBI. But the runner was thrown out at the plate. Tovias scored on an error, so there was no RBI there.

An unusual play, to be sure, but a pretty simple one to score. OOTP should have gotten that one right.

Matt Arnold · 04-26-2018, 11:20 AM

Yeah, shouldn't be an RBI on the play.

Eugene Church · 04-26-2018, 05:21 PM

I play out a lot of my games and scoring errors like this happen often... the AI gives RBIs many times when a run scores on a throwing error... usually on an outfield throw.

Happens way too often.

It really is not a rare occurrence.

I write recaps for all my games and have noticed in the box score an RBI, when the game log shows it scored on an error.

BoomerSoonerAMH · 04-26-2018, 07:58 PM

There are instances where an RBI can be scored on an error. This isn’t a case, but one example would be when a runner scores an a bad throw home and the scorer determines the runner would have scored even with a good throw. In this case another runner would have to advance an extra base
otherwise it would not be an error.

Qeltar · 04-26-2018, 08:04 PM

Boomer is correct. Most scorer decisions are based on the "ordinary effort" standard and throwing someone out at the plate rarely requires ordinary effort (because most runners are held when it would be easy enough to throw them out that it would be expected to happen).

Eugene Church · 04-27-2018, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoomerSoonerAMH

There are instances where an RBI can be scored on an error. This isn’t a case, but one example would be when a runner scores an a bad throw home and the scorer determines the runner would have scored even with a good throw. In this case another runner would have to advance an extra base
otherwise it would not be an error.

I think I will use this to rationalize this situation so I can live with it and not be bothered by such things.

When it happens, I will just tell myself, the score keeper ruled it that way and gave no error on the play.

I can live with that.

Bunktown Ballers · 04-27-2018, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westheim

The following weird-ass play developed (in OOTP 16) just now, and I can't remember something like that in the thousands of games I have played out. The thing that boggles my mind is that Elias Tovias got an RBI for his efforts here, and I think he should not have gotten it. (see below)

Opinions?

Just to put my 2 cents in is I don't think I've ever had that happen & I play out every game. Maybe I just hadn't noticed, but kinda hard to miss that. Hope it gets corrected
BB

zappa1 · 04-27-2018, 06:31 AM

It's not only giving an RBI that shouldn't be, but the pitcher gets charged with a run which also shouldn't be and sometimes it's an earned run. So the pitchers stats gets messed, too.

Westheim · 04-27-2018, 08:51 AM

Thx for confirming I'm still in tune with reality!

Quote:

Originally Posted by zappa1

It's not only giving an RBI that shouldn't be, but the pitcher gets charged with a run which also shouldn't be and sometimes it's an earned run. So the pitchers stats gets messed, too.

I just checked the box score again and Griffin's five runs allowed were all earned, so he did indeed get screwed on the play.

And since Elias hit a game-tying 3-piece with two outs in the ninth, we will henceforth call this the Elias Tovias Game...!

04-26-2018, 05:36 AM	#1
Westheim Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 14,083	Dubious scoring - need to get smarter minds involved The following weird-ass play developed (in OOTP 16) just now, and I can't remember something like that in the thousands of games I have played out. The thing that boggles my mind is that Elias Tovias got an RBI for his efforts here, and I think he should not have gotten it. (see below) Opinions? Attached Images __________________ Portland Raccoons, 96 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 * 2061 * 2071 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA \| RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.

04-26-2018, 10:18 AM	#3
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	Edit, I totally misread the play. (It's a bit confusing.) I thought the guy on 1B scored (which itself is complex if an error occurs throwing home.) But this does sound like there should be no RBI. Last edited by Qeltar; 04-26-2018 at 10:26 AM.

04-26-2018, 10:26 AM	#4
joefromchicago Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,726	There's no way Tovias gets an RBI on this play. The only way that a batter can get an RBI for driving himself in is if he hits a home run. This, however, is a play where there's a man on first when Tovias hits a double. So that's the only guy that Tovias could drive in to get an RBI. But the runner was thrown out at the plate. Tovias scored on an error, so there was no RBI there. An unusual play, to be sure, but a pretty simple one to score. OOTP should have gotten that one right. __________________ American-Ethnic (and Canadian) Namesets Historical Minor League Schedules 1870s City/Team Nickname Randomizers "It's Usually Sunny in Philadelphia" weather mod Negro League Schedules

04-26-2018, 08:17 AM	#2
TomVeal All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Spanaway, Washington Posts: 1,258	According to the definition of "run batted in" on MLB.com, "A player does not receive an RBI when the run scores as a result of an error or ground into double play." Scorekeepers do make mistakes. Perhaps, in its quest for realism, OOTP includes that feature.

04-26-2018, 11:20 AM	#5
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 16,254	Yeah, shouldn't be an RBI on the play.

04-26-2018, 05:21 PM	#6
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 36,252	I play out a lot of my games and scoring errors like this happen often... the AI gives RBIs many times when a run scores on a throwing error... usually on an outfield throw. Happens way too often. It really is not a rare occurrence. I write recaps for all my games and have noticed in the box score an RBI, when the game log shows it scored on an error.

04-26-2018, 07:58 PM	#7
BoomerSoonerAMH Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 111	There are instances where an RBI can be scored on an error. This isn’t a case, but one example would be when a runner scores an a bad throw home and the scorer determines the runner would have scored even with a good throw. In this case another runner would have to advance an extra base otherwise it would not be an error.

04-26-2018, 08:04 PM	#8
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	Boomer is correct. Most scorer decisions are based on the "ordinary effort" standard and throwing someone out at the plate rarely requires ordinary effort (because most runners are held when it would be easy enough to throw them out that it would be expected to happen).

04-27-2018, 06:31 AM	#11
zappa1 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 2,251	It's not only giving an RBI that shouldn't be, but the pitcher gets charged with a run which also shouldn't be and sometimes it's an earned run. So the pitchers stats gets messed, too.