Does Playing produce different stats then Simming?

[Bears5122]

Ok, over the past couple versions I've noticed that when I play my games I can't some real crazy stats at times. When I sim, everything tends to be right along the lines of what the players ratings are. Last night I did an experiment with my roomate to see if this is true. We played out 15 games, restarted, then simmed the same 15. We did this twice and here is what we came up with:


Sosa:

Play #1 .156 2 HR
Sim #1 .285 4 HR
Play #2 .172 3 HR
Sim #2 .294 4 HR


Hee Sop Choi

Play #1 .315 3 HR
Sim #1 .225 0 HR
Play #2 .305 2 HR
Sim #2 .200 1 HR


Kerry Wood

Play #1 0-3 5.44 ERA
Sim #1 1-0 2.43 ERA
Play #2 0-1 5.89 ERA
Sim #2 1-1 2.89 ERA


This seemingly goes on for most of the players in the league. There are some that do well in simming, and some that do well playing. It seems that the simming is much more realistic, but when playing it is not realistic at all. To those who think we don't know how to manage, we played out the games using correct substitutions. It just seems like ratings mean much less when playing out the game as they do when simming.

[Scott Vibert]

I haven't seen this and I play out almost all of my games in my solo leagues. 15 games is obviously a small sample size though, things would hopefully normalize for you over time.

[Bears5122]

I have a team batting average of .194 48 games into the season. That just doesn't seem right.

[Steve Kuffrey]

Sounds on the low end of things, I however also play out most if not all of my games and beginning w/ OOTP3 and moving through to OOTP5 now, here are the team batting averages I had playing as the Braves.

.279
.280
.275
.280
.268
.283
.271
.275

I would say that your team is just in "some kinda slump" and will probably come around. I've not seen any discernable difference in simming vs playing the games out.

[jmax21]

I'd like to hear more on this topic, too. I tend to play my #1 and #2 SP's and then sim guys 3-5. My 3-5 guys are clearly outperforming the top two. Is it my bad managing? Random statistical error? Or is something funny going on when game options are introduced?

Maybe I don't 'cover lines' enough?? Anyone else see this?

[Bears5122]

I honestly think when playing out games, the game is played differently. Maybe the statistics and ratings don't mean as much as it is random. When you sim, the ratings are what determines everything.

[sporr]

Also, keep in mind that if you play out your games, you aren't likely to make the same exact decisions as the computer GM when the game is simmed.

[Bears5122]

Well a few wrong decisions wouldn't have me hitting under .200 I don't think. I've also noticed that when playing out games vs simming there are way more strikeouts, errors, double plays, and hit batsmen. Just run a test yourself and you'll see.

[Sweed]

I play out all my games and I can say my stats mirror reality very nicely. I've played two full seasons in v4 and am about half way through my first in v5. I have seen terrible slumps like your 15 game test and hot streaks to equal them. In my first season I got off to a 21-3 start and thought I had made a mistake buying ootp4. By the allstar game I had a 17 game lead, my win pct was still well over .600 but things were showing signs of settling down. I still figured with the record I had that maybe the game wasn't as good as advertised but then...

The dog days of August came to Wrigleyville It was like the wheels fell off. By the end of the first week of Sept the lead was down to two games and I ended up winning the division by 5.

My second season was more equal all the way through without the tremendous start or collapse. More in line with what I would call "normal".
My first season here in v5 is going like any normal season. Team batting started slow but has picked up.

I guess all in all what I'm trying to say is that from my experience it is very hard to judge the results you are posting until you have played a 162 games. I would say during my August-Sept collapse in v4 I was probably hitting somewhere around .200 as a team.

Don't know if roster sets would make a difference, I wouldn't think so but I use Rolen17's that came out at v4 release last year.

[ghulten]

I think some of it might be attributed to bad managing.

No offense, but I play out all my games, and I notice that I routinely cost my team 3 or 4 games every year with boneheaded managing, like forgetting to click on hold runner or trying to bunt for hits to much or leaving my SP in one batter too long.

It might not affect your team BA much, but, then again, it might. I'm always kicking myself for every game my team loses, convinced that if I'd just pressed "Hit and Run" my team would have strung together the 19 consecutive hits I needed to win....

[sporr]

Does Playing produce different stats then Simming?

No

[Bears5122]

I don't think its bad managing. I score runs alright, I just have horrible averages. I have 4 guys in the league leaders for strikeouts, it's crazy. I'm almost at the all-star break and Sammy Sosa is hitting .165 now. Sammy Sosa at .165. I mean I'm going to have to sit him, that's just killing me. And it's not his ratings, because they are GForces and fairly good.

[dombrov]

It would be interesting to see one of developers comment on this as they should definitely know if the game engine works the same when playing vs. simming. I haven't had the game long enough to make a comparison of play vs. sim but was a little surprised at the 5 for 5 game 1968 Don Drysdale had in a game I was playing. Might need to move him to number 3 spot when he pitches

[Steve Kuffrey]

Well, I am part of the development team and can testify to playing my games out since OOTP1 all the way through v5(I wish I had kept count but just guessing I'd say several 1,000 games) and the only differences that I have ever seen are just the different decisions that I would make that the computer wouldn't or visa versa. I've had hot streaks and streaks of bad luck. I honestly feel that if someone plays out a season or two that they will see that issues like are mentioned here will balance out.

[baseballbob]

That is definitely great to hear. I'm someone who likes to play through the games, so I'm relieved to hear that things do seem to pan out on the larger scale.

Word has it, however, (see the post thread "Position player fatigue way out of wack") that position player fatigue is dealt with much differently when playing out the games vs. simming them. It seems that the fatigue system appears to be out of wack during a season sim, but very accurate when played game by game.

Since this is a thread on differences in sim vs playing games out and Steve has kindly offered his knowledge and expertise to this thread, I wanted to ask Steve if he has experienced that fatigue phenomenon and or if he has any thoughts on it.

[Steve Kuffrey]

Ok, I know that we worked on the fatigue this version and tried to give it a bit more impact. I think that before it did not make enough difference and now it does. As far as a difference, the only thing that I am certain about is that the human managed teams have to sub in for tired players IF they are playing out their games. I don't like this, but currently it has to be handled this way. I will try to get a more detailed answer from Markus as far as how it is handled otherwise. Sorry I don't have more to tell.

[baseballbob]

No problem at all Steve on not having that info.

Thank you for your very fast response though...very fast indeed.
And, its great to hear that attentions have been paid to working on a good fatigue system...that is good to hear.

This is a wonderful game that is a lot of fun to play around with! and, even though there seem to be all those little wrinkles running around out there, I think you guys are doing a fantastic job...and that, even if there are real wrinkles out there, that I do feel confident that they'll be addressed as time and resources permit. After all, you guys all have to have a life outside of all of this too LOL.
Thanks,

Kevin

[Ragnar]

I personally think simming is different than playing it out. Especially in OOTP4. I notice it in homeruns and pitching in general. Players around the league with a 4 AVG and a 10 in HR had 40-50 a year. No batter i ever had with a 4 AVG would ever hit 50 HR's no matter how high his HR rating was. Maybe it's just 20 years bad luck but i have never ever had a player hit 50 HR's playing out the games no matter how great they were. And pitching. I would now and again be notified of a current no hitter going. Go to see who's doing it and it's a pitcher with 5's across the board. Now I'v had about 3 or 4 no hitters in 20 seasons but all were top notch pitchers. no 5 rated pitchers ever made it even close to a no hitter on my team. Granted i'v only played 20 + seasons.

[Bears5122]

I don't know, this years version just doesn't feel right when playing out the games. The strikeouts and double plays seem ridiculously high when playing out the games.

The computer seems to almost have a comeback logic built in like you see in some prevelant console video games. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just doesn't feel very realistic this year.

I haven't heard many people who have played out games in V5, but I'd like to see what you guys think. I just took the Yankees and am 10-14 and hitting .210. Mariano Riveria has a 12 ERA or something and blown 4 saves. I just wanted to see if I was just having bad luck with weaker teams but it seems pretty common across the board.

Like I said before, it seems like the ratings play less when playing out the game. When I sim out the games I get very realistic stats. It's unreal. But when I play out the games they are real funny looking. I have Jason Giambi hitting .115. Maybe it will change and maybe its just a real long slump I've been in playing, but I dunno. It seems to me something was tweaked in the play mode. If so, I'll be playing ASB or High Heat, I get much more realistic stats with those games and I'm actually controlling them.

[Steve Kuffrey]

Well, just as an example of my stats this year playing games out using the Geforce beta rosters, I'm using Atlanta and some of my stats are(28 games in I'm 15-13):

Furcal .353(116ab) 1 HR 12 RBI
M.Franco .333(84ab) 6 HR 24 RBI
C.Jones .310(100ab) 3 HR 18 RBI

J.Lopez .192(78ab) 1 HR 8 RBI

Maddux 2.88 2-2
Ortiz 3.41 3-2
Byrd 4.93 2-3

This is just a small sample but the numbers seem fairly good and I would guess you are using the same set.