Could you add a setting to 2-way pitchers to use instead of a DH?

[malichai11]

I have an 80/80 starter who also happens to be an 80/80 CF. He is absolutely incredible. I also have a 75/76 starter who's a 60/60 1B. As a simmer, it would be great if there was an option to check in their game strategies so that they would play over the DH on the days that they pitch.

Markus, any chance of throwing a bone to simmers with superstar 2-way players? Thanks!

[gosensgo101]

Force Start at DH on the strategies page?

[malichai11]

Originally Posted by gosensgo101

Force Start at DH on the strategies page?

No, when he's not pitching he's a stud CF so forcing him to be a DH wouldn't work. The other starter is a pretty good 1B or LF.

[malichai11]

Originally Posted by gosensgo101

Force Start at DH on the strategies page?

Actually, this doesn't work. I tried it as a short-cut, I thought, okay, maybe 36 times a year I can just go to the game strategy and force-start him as a DH and that doesn't work. You can't be a pitcher and the DH in the American League. You have to actually start the game, and then turn off the designated hitter, then start the game, then sim to the end of the game. Ugh. That's going to seriously increase the amount of time it takes to sim a season if you want to get full use out of a possible Babe Ruth type player in the AL, assuming you're a simmer like me. Still, I just love this player.

[malichai11]

Okay, actually, I take that back. Yes, you can remove the DH when you're playing a game, but you're also forcing your opponent to play without the DH, which isn't remotely fair to them. There doesn't seem to be any fair way within the OOTP framework to have your starting pitcher hit in the American League, while that pitcher is starting, without what amounts to changing the very fabric of the rules for that game that then affects your opponent. Unless I'm missing something.

[BoomerSoonerAMH]

Could you use 7-day lineups and just insert your lineup w/o a DH for the games said pitcher is pitching?

[Matt Arnold]

That's an option we'll likely explore more in the summer, but it takes a little extra AI care to decide when to do that.

[malichai11]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

That's an option we'll likely explore more in the summer, but it takes a little extra AI care to decide when to do that.

I was thinking about this. First, have 3 way option for the player. Option 1 is no option, it is let the AI handle it. Option 2 is don't use a DH when this player is starting. Option 3 is always use a DH when this player is starting.
For the AI:
Is this an American League game? If yes then:
Is this Starting-pitcher marked as a 2-way player? If yes then:
Set the SP as a DH and compare him to the current DH, just as if the team had added a DH. Is he a standard deviation better than the current DH, if yes then:
The DH is removed for the that team and the SP hits.
If no to any of the above then the status quo carries.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by malichai11

I was thinking about this. First, have 3 way option for the player. Option 1 is no option, it is let the AI handle it. Option 2 is don't use a DH when this player is starting. Option 3 is always use a DH when this player is starting.

In the real world, though, there will be only one option: always use the DH.

Seriously, what AL manager will forgo the DH even if he has a combination of Aaron Judge and Clayton Kershaw pitching? If he doesn't use the DH and the pitcher gets shelled in the second inning, he's stuck using pinch hitters or having relievers bat for the rest of the game. And how many starters go more than seven innings anyway? Add to that the fact that a lot of AL teams have a guy on the roster who realistically can only DH, and you have to conclude that no manager would regularly give up the DH spot for a good-hitting pitcher.

All things considered, I question the utility of having the developers devote time to what is, as Matt points out, a difficult job of coding for this extremely rare situation.

[malichai11]

We don't know how it would work in the real world because Otani went with the Angels. I have my own version of Otani in my game. He just won the Cy Young and has won the MVP 3 out of the last 4 years. Batting WAR over those past 3 years? 7.9, 4.4, 6.6. I manually made sure he was never lifted for a DH. I was willing to risk a couple of shellackings because this is the MVP of the league and I'd do anything to keep him happy. No way would he not want to hit while he's pitching. Pitching WAR those past 3 years? 6.7, 6.5, 4.5.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by malichai11

We don't know how it would work in the real world because Otani went with the Angels.

I would be extremely surprised if the Angels ever have Otani bat except when he's pitching in an NL park. In fact, I'd be extremely surprised if Otani plays any other position besides pitcher. Heck, I'll be surprised if he makes it to the majors.

[malichai11]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

I would be extremely surprised if the Angels ever have Otani bat except when he's pitching in an NL park. In fact, I'd be extremely surprised if Otani plays any other position besides pitcher. Heck, I'll be surprised if he makes it to the majors.

That would be a bummer. In 22 years in my current league I've only had 2 successful 2-way players but it sure is exciting and fun!

[NoOne]

but, if batting has nothing to do with arm fatigue, it would be a complete waste not to use him as a DH. ( i can't see how batting would fatigue anything important to an over the arm motion and recovery time.)

i haven't seen how the game handles fatigue, but that's about RL, nonetheless.. whatever constraints ootp has placed on this may force a certain behaviour. however they choose to define a moot point is fine. (moot only beacuse there's no real life data with a suitable sample size to go by yet, i'd assume)

batting is not strenuous... it shouldn't even imped fatigue recovery of postion players.. what exactly is tiring them out or preventing them from resting? tehy'd by sitting on a@@ in clubhous no matter in game to bat or not as a DH, lol. even if he has to run in bursts of 90-180 feet that's quite silly to say that's strenuous work.

if it makes him less effective as apitcher (or vice versa for a hitter primary, pitcher secondary guy) then considerations should be made about use.

what's truely sad is that even still we still can't easily setup a dh and another positon to swap around -- like C/DH etc. i think this is part of the problem here too. a "starter" can't be a dh too.. wtf?!?

7-day lineups are cumbersome, annoying and completely redundant in nature to a fucntional depth chart. it's just shifting responsibiity of what the depth chart should be able to do on its own to us micromanging something mundane and repetitive... not really based on intelligent thought but rather facts of fatigue and recovery and maximizing use -- hammer it out, then it's a mindless repetitive process. anyhting repetitive should be easily automated -- like how a depth chart is supposed to function!

so, i have to stop my sim every 7 days because the game can't do something simple. ihave to use what amounts to a 2nd depth chart to cover up for a lack of functionality in the first depth chart.. makes total sense if you ignore all rational and logical thought.

7-day lineup is just a rigged up patch to cover up something that works poorly. it merely avoids fixing somethign that is only partially functional for a decade+ of releases and dumps it on us instead of adhering to one simple depth chart..

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by NoOne

what's truely sad is that even still we still can't easily setup a dh and another positon to swap around -- like C/DH etc. i think this is part of the problem here too. a "starter" can't be a dh too.. wtf?!?

I agree. There should be a way to have a starter at one position listed as the backup at another. Maybe the developers could spend their time on that project rather than figuring out how to disable the DH for two-way players

[Bunktown Ballers]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

I would be extremely surprised if the Angels ever have Otani bat except when he's pitching in an NL park. In fact, I'd be extremely surprised if Otani plays any other position besides pitcher. Heck, I'll be surprised if he makes it to the majors.

He's starting like the 3rd game of the season for the Angels

[Bunktown Ballers]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

I agree. There should be a way to have a starter at one position listed as the backup at another. Maybe the developers could spend their time on that project rather than figuring out how to disable the DH for two-way players

I've read hundreds of post on the board about the realism or not the realism of OOTP. Now ppl are complaining that they cant figure out how to use 2-way players. Anyone alive in these boards every remember any 2-way players in MLB? I'm sorry....did I hear no? If Giants & Dodgers cant figure out how to 2-way play Baumgartner & Kershaw what makes anyone expect it to happen in OOTP.
Just saying, but not to make anybody mad.......Who would really in their right mind IRL risk batting Baumgartner or Kershaw on days they not pitching? If I was the manager I would drill them every chance I would have

[malichai11]

Originally Posted by Bunktown Ballers

.Who would really in their right mind IRL risk batting Baumgartner or Kershaw on days they not pitching? If I was the manager I would drill them every chance I would have

So what's the line in the sand where you would start throwing the ball at an opposing player in an attempt to injure them? Do they have to be as good of a pitcher as Kershaw or Baumgartner? What if they're only as good as Danny Duffy? Do you attempt to injure Danny Duffy for trying to hit? Does their skill level as a hitter factor into you drilling them? What if Gio Gonzalez hits as well as Jose Altuve? Does he get drilled for having the audacity to hit on his non-pitching days?

[Bunktown Ballers]

Originally Posted by malichai11

So what's the line in the sand where you would start throwing the ball at an opposing player in an attempt to injure them? Do they have to be as good of a pitcher as Kershaw or Baumgartner? What if they're only as good as Danny Duffy? Do you attempt to injure Danny Duffy for trying to hit? Does their skill level as a hitter factor into you drilling them? What if Gio Gonzalez hits as well as Jose Altuve? Does he get drilled for having the audacity to hit on his non-pitching days?

If Gio Gonzalez hit like Jose Altuve I PROMISE he wouldnt be pitching at all. He'd been playing the field or DH'ing since he starting playing baseball..Problem Solved, wouldn't have to throw at him.

It was a figure of speech...jeez...You hear them talk about it during games all the time......That's why in general when pitchers bat they have their throwing arm facing away from the pitcher. It's has been known in baseball circles to throw at opposing players.

Whew, you sound like an ex-major MLB player that was once a great hitting pitcher.

But I still stand by my post that of all the gripping about certain things in OOTP game not being like real life.....2-way players come up as an argument. PLEASE....

Your post was hilarious!!

[malichai11]

Originally Posted by Bunktown Ballers

It's has been known in baseball circles to throw at opposing players.

No matter the message board or reddit or anywhere I'll always come out against the idea that it is ever okay to throw at players. I hate the unwritten rules of baseball.

[malichai11]

We got really far afield here. If I had it to do over again, I would've just made a post in the bug forum that in OOTP an American League team is forced to use a DH (without removing it for both AL teams on a case-by-case basis), which might be an issue if Shohei Ohtani ends up a really good hitter and/or if he's a trailblazer for future two-way studs. Unfortunately, at the time I made my post, I didn't realize that was the core issue.

Regardless, I apologize if I offended anyone here.