Promotion/Relegation Set-up

DustyElbows · 05-18-2017, 09:29 PM

I've been fooling around with the pro/rel option a lot lately, setting up an association like this:

MLB, 30 teams
ULB, 20
CBL, 20
AAA, 20
AA, 16
A, 16

where the majors started with the normal MLB teams and Single-A started with small-city teams like the Idaho Falls Chukars.

I'm interested if anyone else has noticed how unstable teams can be in the pro/rel universe. As an example, here's the history of the Asheville Tourists:

2017 won AA, promoted
2018 won AAA, promoted
2019 won CBL, promoted
2020 last in ULB, demoted
2021 last in CBL, demoted
2022 last in AAA, demoted
2023 last in AA, demoted

That's 7 league changes in the first 7 seasons of the sim! This isn't particularly rare - several other teams have made great climbs followed by great collapses. A couple of the original MLB teams have been demoted two or three years in a row.

Any ideas as to how to allay this a little bit? Or do you think this is (at least somewhat) realistic?

TheMaus2 · 05-18-2017, 10:02 PM

Toy around with it. Play with the right amount of teams to be promoted. with a 16 team league, maybe only the top 2 and bottom two should be moved.

BBGiovanni · 05-19-2017, 12:30 PM

My first question is: did you manually move MiLB team's players onto new teams? MiLB teams in the standard setup are weird and don't have all the financial capabilities of regular teams.

As to the results, this doesn't surprise me a ton (woth the caveat that I have no idea how your league finances are set up).

Let's say MLB were a prom/rel setup. Some Appy League team could be the class of its level, move up and improve a bit, then do it again. By the 3rd promotion or so they probably haven't had time to develop players commensurate with their level, and they may not be able to re-sign players hitting FA. Which leads to a big collapse and relegation, and maybe another one, and then they start over.

And no, an MLB team getting relegated repeatedly doesn't surprise me so much. Several MLB teams serve teeny markets or are run like a 2-bit AA team that produces talent and sells it/can't/won't re-sign it. Cincinnati and Milwaukee, for instance, are small cities and absent the real-life cartel might not have stayed in the majors all these years.

Or think of the 70's A's... 3 championships and then several years of disaster ball that would have seen them relegated to God knows where. Billyball to crawl back another level, then the Haas teams to climb back to the top, and within a few years back to the depths.

As I say without seeing all the financials and roster rules I have no idea, but thise results don't seem crazy.

alkeiper · 05-19-2017, 01:46 PM

The structure seems top heavy. For every player of major league caliber there are dozens of players who are not. But there are nearly twice as many major league spots as there are spots in the entry level league. Consider the number of teams in the English football structure:

20
24
24
24
24
44
136

And hundreds more at the level below. That's too many for all but the hardcore sadist fan. But it might be worth considering spreading the teams down the pyramid.

05-18-2017, 09:29 PM	#1
DustyElbows Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 225	Promotion/Relegation Set-up I've been fooling around with the pro/rel option a lot lately, setting up an association like this: MLB, 30 teams ULB, 20 CBL, 20 AAA, 20 AA, 16 A, 16 where the majors started with the normal MLB teams and Single-A started with small-city teams like the Idaho Falls Chukars. I'm interested if anyone else has noticed how unstable teams can be in the pro/rel universe. As an example, here's the history of the Asheville Tourists: 2017 won AA, promoted 2018 won AAA, promoted 2019 won CBL, promoted 2020 last in ULB, demoted 2021 last in CBL, demoted 2022 last in AAA, demoted 2023 last in AA, demoted That's 7 league changes in the first 7 seasons of the sim! This isn't particularly rare - several other teams have made great climbs followed by great collapses. A couple of the original MLB teams have been demoted two or three years in a row. Any ideas as to how to allay this a little bit? Or do you think this is (at least somewhat) realistic?

05-18-2017, 10:02 PM	#2
TheMaus2 All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: The OOTP Forums. Always. Posts: 1,951	Toy around with it. Play with the right amount of teams to be promoted. with a 16 team league, maybe only the top 2 and bottom two should be moved. __________________ I write a monthly newsletter on the Food Baseball Association. I also listen to music no one's ever heard of in hopes of looking cool and alternative.

05-19-2017, 12:30 PM	#3
BBGiovanni All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Republic of California Posts: 1,911	My first question is: did you manually move MiLB team's players onto new teams? MiLB teams in the standard setup are weird and don't have all the financial capabilities of regular teams. As to the results, this doesn't surprise me a ton (woth the caveat that I have no idea how your league finances are set up). Let's say MLB were a prom/rel setup. Some Appy League team could be the class of its level, move up and improve a bit, then do it again. By the 3rd promotion or so they probably haven't had time to develop players commensurate with their level, and they may not be able to re-sign players hitting FA. Which leads to a big collapse and relegation, and maybe another one, and then they start over. And no, an MLB team getting relegated repeatedly doesn't surprise me so much. Several MLB teams serve teeny markets or are run like a 2-bit AA team that produces talent and sells it/can't/won't re-sign it. Cincinnati and Milwaukee, for instance, are small cities and absent the real-life cartel might not have stayed in the majors all these years. Or think of the 70's A's... 3 championships and then several years of disaster ball that would have seen them relegated to God knows where. Billyball to crawl back another level, then the Haas teams to climb back to the top, and within a few years back to the depths. As I say without seeing all the financials and roster rules I have no idea, but thise results don't seem crazy.

05-19-2017, 01:46 PM	#4
alkeiper Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 86	The structure seems top heavy. For every player of major league caliber there are dozens of players who are not. But there are nearly twice as many major league spots as there are spots in the entry level league. Consider the number of teams in the English football structure: 20 24 24 24 24 44 136 And hundreds more at the level below. That's too many for all but the hardcore sadist fan. But it might be worth considering spreading the teams down the pyramid.