Position Player Injuries

[henry296]

I play with realistic injury setting and the total number of injuries is what I would expect. However, the distribution between position players and pitchers is way off. In my last test sim, 32 of the 175 players on the injury report at the end of the season where pitchers. The current MLB DL has 98 pitchers out of 160 total players.

[marc5477]

Probably just random. In my games so far, pitcher are by far the most injury prone DL wise. Position players get hurt more often because they play more but they dont seem to need to go on DL nearly as often. I have had at least one pitcher out for a season almost every season I play...

Ironically I am here on the forum precisely due to frustration... because my star pitcher who missed 2/3 of last season, who was having the season of his career (13-4 2.30 era way before All Star Break) just got hurt again, this time in spring, and is out another 3-4 months... I needed to vent a bit lol.

[henry296]

I've seen this multiple times and was the first time I counted. I don't think it is random.

[RchW]

Low pitcher injuries has been a problem in every version.

[grmagne]

Originally Posted by RchW

Low pitcher injuries has been a problem in every version.

It seems like an easy issue to fix if you have one injury setting for position players and a separate injury setting for pitchers. I'd set the position players to Normal and pitchers to the highest setting.

[Lukas Berger]

I don't have the numbers but we discussed this and it seems our tests indicate the ratio of pitchers to position players injuries are pretty accurate in game.

What have all of you actually found numbers wise?

[dmacgreg37]

I've found it to be far more pitchers, by cursory glance. I'd have to dive deeper to know for sure though

[ttaka808]

I've seen way more position players get hurt, but longer injuries for the pitchers.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

I don't have the numbers but we discussed this and it seems our tests indicate the ratio of pitchers to position players injuries are pretty accurate in game.

What have all of you actually found numbers wise?

In fictional leagues it's common for teams to have 3-4 SP making 30+ starts. In recent mlb seasons it's just above 2.

That's not definitive but it is obvious to the eye in my fictional leagues. SP take up little space on the DL.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by RchW

In fictional leagues it's common for teams to have 3-4 SP making 30+ starts. In recent mlb seasons it's just above 2.

That's not definitive but it is obvious to the eye in my fictional leagues. SP take up little space on the DL.

Yeah that is true.

Someone actually brought that up a while ago, but when we looked at it Markus came to the conclusion that primarily happens not because there are too few injuries, but because the ai uses its best rotation from the get go and doesn't experiment with the rotation and swap out hot and cold pitchers and rotate its 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th best starters based on performance nearly as much as real life teams tend to do.

[Lukas Berger]

It's probably also worth noting that on the default settings the injuries are intentionally a bit lower than in reality, so that will skew the numbers of SP's starting games a bit as well.

[henry296]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

I don't have the numbers but we discussed this and it seems our tests indicate the ratio of pitchers to position players injuries are pretty accurate in game.

What have all of you actually found numbers wise?

Lukas

Look at my original post with my end of year DL numbers vs current MLB DL numbers. Tonight I'll get some counts of injuries by type in my current sim. My DL numbers are changing because I have been playing with injury frequencies

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

Yeah that is true.

Someone actually brought that up a while ago, but when we looked at it Markus came to the conclusion that primarily happens not because there are too few injuries, but primarily because the ai uses its best rotation from the get go and doesn't experiment with the rotation and swap out hot and cold pitchers and rotate its 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th best starters based on performance nearly as much as real life teams tend to do.

I think the root cause of what you say above is still injuries. Real life teams spend a lot of time moving RP around and taking advantage of the "emergency" provisions of calling players back up before 10 days has elapsed. I think it's less likely that RL teams would skip a start for a healthy pitcher and much more likely that it would be an arm twinge

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by henry296

Lukas

Look at my original post with my end of year DL numbers vs current MLB DL numbers. Tonight I'll get some counts of injuries by type in my current sim. My DL numbers are changing because I have been playing with injury frequencies

I saw your post, Markus and Matt did as well and we discussed it, but it's a very small sample size which contradicts what we've gotten in (much) more extensive testing.

I don't want to sound dismissive. That's not to say there's no chance there's an issue, there absolutely may be, but we'll need (a lot) more data that reinforces what you found in that one sim before we're comfortable with making major changes.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by RchW

I think the root cause of what you say above is still injuries. Real life teams spend a lot of time moving RP around and taking advantage of the "emergency" provisions of calling players back up before 10 days has elapsed. I think it's less likely that RL teams would skip a start for a healthy pitcher and much more likely that it would be an arm twinge

I don't know. Maybe. That's not an unreasonable conclusion and I think there might be something to it.

There's a lot of "I think" in there though, from both of us

I know you generally like and believe in having data to back up any subjective conclusions just like we do and where we're at right now is that if we're going to be convinced there's an issue here, we'll need some more data that supports that thesis.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

I don't know. Maybe. That's not an unreasonable conclusion and I think there might be something to it.

There's a lot of "I think" in there though, from both of us

I know you generally like and believe in having data to back up any subjective conclusions just like we do and where we're at right now is that if we're going to be convinced there's an issue here, we'll need some more data that supports that thesis.

Agreed and I will endeavour to gather it. Fortuitously I'm in the first month of a new season.

[henry296]

I've seen it across multiple season as I have been playing with tweaking the injuries file. I've started a new league with the 2017 Quick start. I have realistic injuries and high position fatigue and the default injury text file. I'm going to sim month by month and record pitches vs. position players on the injury report at the end of each month, hopefully for 5-10 years and will report my findings. One of the other impacts of the higher position injuries is the become fragile and start getting injured more often.

[henry296]

Actually after looking at the data, I realized the beginning of the game starts with all of the current injured players, so I'm going to start a 2016 historical league with reserve rosters.

[henry296]

I was able to finish simming 4 seasons; recording the # of players on the injury report each month. Each month of the each of the four seasons, about 25% of the players on the injury report were pitchers.

I also used the injury log to record the cause of injury. Injuries while pitching were only 18% of the injuries. The biggest cause was base running at 45% with 19% happening on defensive (which is assuming trying to make a catch or injury from sliding).

I sent a detailed spreadsheet to Lukas.

[HonusWagner]

I have over 60 seasons of potential data to contribute on this subject. Problem is, my historical injury logs are empty....