How to change Rating Windows on Player Page

[malor]

Hi.


Download when fine. It was slow, which I took as a great sign others were doing the same.


So far, the game look great with one little issue for me. I want to know how to change the order of the ratings boxes on the Player pages back to the OOTP17 order (Position, Basic Batting, Other from left to right)?


The current order is not logical for my game play so I would like to change them back to the OOTP17 layout. This is actually a pet peeve of mine when a developer of any game changes things in the next version just because they can. A request for feedback early on would have been nice so we could provide feedback.


Thanks.
Malor

[Markus Heinsohn]

Sorry, this is the way it is now. We decided for this change because the order is now more logical in our opinion.

[malor]

Markus,
I guess I have to accept that, but please add this to the list of items to be made customizable for OOTP19.


My reasoning is that you always need to know which positions a player can play more than you need to know the "Basic" and "Other" ratings. I change lineups every day so it now takes more time to scan the screen to gather the data because the most important info is now all the way on the right. This is slowing up my gameplay.


Thanks.
Malor

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by malor

This is actually a pet peeve of mine when a developer of any game changes things in the next version just because they can.

While I am not worked up over this change, I can sympathize with OP's statement on the matter. That kind of thing bugs me as well; kinda like when Microsoft decides to take away the Desktop and Start button because, "We decided for this change because the order is now more logical in our opinion."

[malor]

Thanks for the support.
I'm an IT developer myself and my top pet peeve is when software changes are made just because the developer can do it without obtaining any input from the end users first. MS was who I was thinking of when I made the original post. Every version changes everything just because they can. I still can't use WORD and EXCEL under Windows 10 as well as under the prior version.
I think they like to see how many negative comments on their forums they can generate.
Malor

[Déjà Bru]

I hear you. But thinking a bit more on this, it is probably unfair at this point to compare OOTPD with Microsoft (I'm speaking to myself, not you). I mean in terms of attitude, not size or sales. "Arrogance" is the term that I associate with Microsoft (and Adobe, and Google, etc., etc.) and OOTPD is not anywhere near that yet.

[malor]

I disagree. Adding features is one thing, but moving windows around just because the developer likes it better without first soliciting input is arrogance. Markus provides great support, but I still bitter about the standing being added to the upper right part of the screen for OOTP17. Since I can't see the whole list, it is useless and occupies space that could be better used for almost anything else. Markus responded last year that he liked it that way and it was going to stay in place.

I don't mean to be a hardass, which is why I want to be able to customize the windows placement, which also others to do the same.

I provide feedback because this game has provided me years of entertainment and I want to see it continue to get better. However when things change just because they can be without any reason beyond they like it better that way, that ruins my enjoyment because I now need to relearn the game UI. Thus my comparison to MS, who does that with every new version they deploy.

Malor

[Déjà Bru]

Well, I tend to agree with you, as you saw in my first post in this thread. I had the same reaction as you did when I read Markus' response to you.

[malor]

Bru,

Sorry. I misread your post. You did agree with me.

Malor

[endgame]

I'm surprised, this early in the process, to be compelled to respond with anything less than helpful intention. The comparison to Microsoft is an overreach. The fact that he engineered two decisions that were significant negatives, to Malor at least, does not earn the M in Markus being branded Microsoft any more than reacting with vehement opposition merits Malor's M malevolent.

If we (he) put every decision to vote and input- and by the way many times in the past he has done just that, tried things out for feedback or asked in advance -then at least two things are guaranteed as a result, IMHO: the process slows to a crawl and when the votes are counted, so to speak, there'll be obvious division varying from an even split to the more customary vocally-disposed minority.

Before Malor, or anyone for that matter, plays the "if I pay X numbers of dollars for a game, I'm entitled..." card, one shouldn't need reminded, but apparently it's so, a developer invests time, energies, and yes money, toward an end to not only satisfy his income needs, but in Markus' case, often to his inevitable chagrin, a hope that he can please as many people, playing styles, and interests as he possibly can. No game I'm aware of contains as many options as OOTP. He should be afforded more 'entitlement' than any of us. Can we disagree? Sure. But let's give credit where credit is due; not assume he, or any development process, is making decisions solely because "they can."

[injury log]

OOTP the company is nothing at all like Microsoft.

But this change to OOTP, the product, is reminiscent of changes Microsoft has made to their products. At least three of us have independently made that comparison (two people here, me on beta).

Just as a general comment, if someone doesn't like a certain feature in the game, then it's best to talk about what is wrong with the implementation, and how it could be improved. That might persuade other users, and the game developers have always responded to what the user base wants. But any kind of personal discussion (about personal motivations, or about 'arrogance', or whatever) is not going to be productive. When a conversation goes in that direction, people usually dig in on either side, the dialogue gets acrimonious, and veers away from the only thing worth talking about: how to make the game better.

I still haven't heard a compelling justification for this new layout.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by injury log

I still haven't heard a compelling justification for this new layout.

Thank you for your comments. I agree with nearly all of it but the last. I haven't heard any compelling reasons not to embrace it. Perhaps we should gather our thoughts, compare notes, and continue to talk about, as you stated, how to make the game better.

[iowahawkeyedave]

I actually didn't even notice until I saw this thread. To me the justification I suppose could be because most everything in the "other batting ratings" box is closely related to what's in the "basic batting ratings" box, and they wanted to bring those two boxes together closer to the center of the layout, which meant the defensive ratings had to be put last.

[injury log]

Originally Posted by endgame

Thank you for your comments. I agree with nearly all of it but the last. I haven't heard any compelling reasons not to embrace it.

See my comments on beta.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by injury log

See my comments on beta.

I'll review again.

[Westheim]

I must say that I am completely at a loss for this change. The order in the player profile for the ratings has been Defense - Batting - Other for like ... a hundred years!

Open profile, look at the middle colum, 'ah, he sucks', close profile, next Profile, same. Now I am going to constantly look at the baserunning stats and are left to wonder why all those All Star first basemen have like 5 contact rating?

And 'this might be better' is a pretty lame excuse for a change that is as invasive and table-turning as this. It's not like there was even anything of substance added. It's just like 'oh we flipped it because there was nothing else to put on the back of the box'.

Not even starting with how 'other' stats are now in the premier spot in the middle. Logic demands that 'other' stuff always comes last.

Nope, nope, nope, me and my OCD, we just can't cope with this one.

[iowahawkeyedave]

Originally Posted by Westheim

I must say that I am completely at a loss for this change. The order in the player profile for the ratings has been Defense - Batting - Other for like ... a hundred years!

Open profile, look at the middle colum, 'ah, he sucks', close profile, next Profile, same. Now I am going to constantly look at the baserunning stats and are left to wonder why all those All Star first basemen have like 5 contact rating?

And 'this might be better' is a pretty lame excuse for a change that is as invasive and table-turning as this. It's not like there was even anything of substance added. It's just like 'oh we flipped it because there was nothing else to put on the back of the box'.

Not even starting with how 'other' stats are now in the premier spot in the middle. Logic demands that 'other' stuff always comes last.

Nope, nope, nope, me and my OCD, we just can't cope with this one.

Not sure if sarcasm or not, but honestly, I don't think it's that big of a change. Batting and other batting stats need to be next to each other, and the only way to have them next to each other while giving batting ratings the prime spot, is to do it how it is now.

It's basically switched the spots from being defense/offense/more offense to being offense/more offense/defense. That seems more logical to me that offense should come to the left of defense.

But alas, we can't expect Markus to please everyone all of the time.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Sorry, this is the way it is now. We decided for this change because the order is now more logical in our opinion.

Originally Posted by iowahawkeyedave

Not sure if sarcasm or not, but honestly, I don't think it's that big of a change. Batting and other batting stats need to be next to each other, and the only way to have them next to each other while giving batting ratings the prime spot, is to do it how it is now.

It's basically switched the spots from being defense/offense/more offense to being offense/more offense/defense. That seems more logical to me that offense should come to the left of defense.

But alas, we can't expect Markus to please everyone all of the time.

Agree with both of these. Loved if the first moment I saw it, took me about 20 seconds to get used to it.

[malor]

All,

Thanks for the feedback and comments.

I'm not going to stop playing the game, and I did thank Markus for his reply and requested that the order be made configurable for OOTP19 so everyone can get the UI they like. Markus and his cohorts have provided the best support I've experienced for any game I've purchased, thus the reason for my post and complaint about what I felt was an unneeded change. If I don't speak up, no one will know it is an issue. This is a BETA so feedback should be expected. I don't expect every user request to be implemented, but I do expect a response to posts, which Markus responded to quicker than I expected after what I suspect was a very long day.

As stated by Westheim above, the order has been the same for many versions. We get used to that order and any change is hard to get used to and my worry is it will change again in OOTP19 just because it can. I've have another post about the removal of Personality Traits from the BNN Page. I don't understand why and don't find the replacement useful so now I've have to go to multiple places to retrieve the same info just to get the info I need to play "my way". For me that is also a step backwards in the UI,

As InjuryLog stated, I made my comment because I started the new BETA version and instantly could not get into the game because cosmetic changes were made to a long standing UI without a request for input from the end users, just like MS does all the time. I do feel my comparison to MS is fair on that point. The difference is that Markus will respond with his reasons, listen to feedback and if enough evidence is presented by me and others, he will change it back. That is good customer service. Silence, by either the customer or the developer is the way a product will slowly die over time. I don't want that to occur, thus my participation in BETA feedback.

I'm not one of those who say I paid so I should get what I want. NEVER THAT!. But I will post my feedback and reasoning in hopes of futures changes being made. I've been on the forum since 2015 and while my post count is not high, if you review my posts, they have all been related to questions about changes made to UI between version or requesting future changes to improve the UI going forward. Once the new release is patched, I stop posting and start playing, but continue to read the forum daily. I'd rather play (over 1000 hours over the past two versions) than post. The reason I can do that is because the game is very stable with no crashes, the features are logical and the stats/results appear realistic so I feel that what I do in the game to build a team has a strong impact to the results that are produced. I've found myself sucked into the "sim one more day" mode than once only to lose another hour of time when it turns into multiple days. That is a sign of a great game.

I did not mean to start a fight and please don't turn this post into one. It is feedback and nothing more.

Thanks again to all that responded.

Malor

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by malor

All,

Thanks for the feedback and comments.

I'm not going to stop playing the game, and I did thank Markus for his reply and requested that the order be made configurable for OOTP19 so everyone can get the UI they like. Markus and his cohorts have provided the best support I've experienced for any game I've purchased, thus the reason for my post and complaint about what I felt was an unneeded change. If I don't speak up, no one will know it is an issue. This is a BETA so feedback should be expected. I don't expect every user request to be implemented, but I do expect a response to posts, which Markus responded to quicker than I expected after what I suspect was a very long day.

As stated by Westheim above, the order has been the same for many versions. We get used to that order and any change is hard to get used to and my worry is it will change again in OOTP19 just because it can. I've have another post about the removal of Personality Traits from the BNN Page. I don't understand why and don't find the replacement useful so now I've have to go to multiple places to retrieve the same info just to get the info I need to play "my way". For me that is also a step backwards in the UI,

As InjuryLog stated, I made my comment because I started the new BETA version and instantly could not get into the game because cosmetic changes were made to a long standing UI without a request for input from the end users, just like MS does all the time. I do feel my comparison to MS is fair on that point. The difference is that Markus will respond with his reasons, listen to feedback and if enough evidence is presented by me and others, he will change it back. That is good customer service. Silence, by either the customer or the developer is the way a product will slowly die over time. I don't want that to occur, thus my participation in BETA feedback.

I'm not one of those who say I paid so I should get what I want. NEVER THAT!. But I will post my feedback and reasoning in hopes of futures changes being made. I've been on the forum since 2015 and while my post count is not high, if you review my posts, they have all been related to questions about changes made to UI between version or requesting future changes to improve the UI going forward. Once the new release is patched, I stop posting and start playing, but continue to read the forum daily. I'd rather play (over 1000 hours over the past two versions) than post. The reason I can do that is because the game is very stable with no crashes, the features are logical and the stats/results appear realistic so I feel that what I do in the game to build a team has a strong impact to the results that are produced. I've found myself sucked into the "sim one more day" mode than once only to lose another hour of time when it turns into multiple days. That is a sign of a great game.

I did not mean to start a fight and please don't turn this post into one. It is feedback and nothing more.

Thanks again to all that responded.

Malor

Thanks and please understand that if others don't respond to disagree with you Markus may end up thinking nobody likes the new way.

Westheim himself makes the case for the change IMHO. He stated he immediately goes to the "middle" column to decide if a player sucks. Think about that. The most important thing to him was NOT if the first box that comes from a normal left to right scan, now it is, and that is a negative? New players coming to the game will not see this as a change but a logical setup. Our eyes will adapt and may even come to like it better. Mine already do

I would also submit that whenever I hear my Cubs have a new youngster that plays position X my first question, and I think most peoples' question is, "can he hit?" More logical IMHO and what Markus has stated is the reason for the change.

I always defend new setups that I like because if I don't they disappear, QUICKLY! My biggest gripe was many versions ago park effects were listed on the opening "in-game" screen when you went to play out a game. I posted I loved this addition. One guy posted he thought it was a waste and said he was going to try to have it removed. First patch it was gone never to return. Think about that for a moment. You go to play a game and cannot check to see if the park favors a particular style of play or player unless you back out of the game, check it, and then restart. I try to put it in the requests every year and hope one day it will return