Wow I love player decay

KCRoyalsFan · 03-06-2003, 04:08 PM

It seems to be working really well...I'll give an example.

At 33 this pitcher seems to of hit his prime.

22-5 1.64 ERA 180Ks
then he gradually gets worse until at 37 he finally doesn't got what it takes anymore
23-7 2.10 ERA 220Ks
18-7 2.72 ERA 155Ks
7-5 3.48 ERA 82Ks
10-10 4.33 ERA 78Ks

Be weary of signing these guys long term in their prime. I signed him until his last season where he went 10-10 and he was still making 10 mil a year...

Gastric ReFlux · 03-06-2003, 04:14 PM

I think a lot of OOTP4ers are going to have to readjust their thinking on contracts and player decay.

I agree though. Player development and decline arcs look more realistic than in v4.

Scott Vibert · 03-06-2003, 04:15 PM

JWay · 03-06-2003, 04:15 PM

yes i've grown to love the 2 year contract

I also like the fact of this feature because it forces teams to shuffle each year. Should make online leagues more intresting. Because now more than ever prospects are 1 on 6 on reaching 80% of their potential. And all players have the possiblity of being one injury away from being retired.

One thing I don't like, is the fact the players still linger, they still don't retire all the time.

chinaski · 03-06-2003, 04:29 PM

the worst for me is seeing Boone and Olerud go down hill 1 season into my career with the M's :/

Olerud will never tire i tell you, NEVER!!! Boone however, is a mystery and his decline at 35 isnt a surprise, imo. I just had Olerud go from hitting .290 with 101 rbis in 2003, to .230 and 5 homers in 2004, with the same # of AB's. guh. wth?

Hes the most consistant player in baseball damnit!!! just look at those numbers!

KCRoyalsFan · 03-06-2003, 04:33 PM

lol sure was disappointing for me to sign chuck finley as like a 4-5 star and watch him plummet to a 1 star by the seasons end, needless to say he was not with the team long.

Its really hard to trade high contract old guys, I don't think its possible.

Erithtotl · 03-06-2003, 04:35 PM

A BIG problem with this is that you can't waive old, useless players, you must CUT them, so you have to pay all their salary up front or keep them on the 25 man roster, which is unrealistic.

Mrexbaseball · 03-06-2003, 04:39 PM

It's cool because not only do players usually decay, but once in awhile you will see a player get really old, and still play awesome. I was in a career league and Larry Walker hit 39 - and he was playing like he was 29...great game Markus.

Scott Vibert · 03-06-2003, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Erithtotl
A BIG problem with this is that you can't waive old, useless players, you must CUT them, so you have to pay all their salary up front or keep them on the 25 man roster, which is unrealistic.

There is only one thing that is unrealistic about this. That is the time frame that you pay the player... in real life you'd just continue paying him over the period of his contract, in OOTP you pay it off at once and immediately clear the contract from your books.

In real life Veteran Players have the right to refuse minor league assignment. At which point the team can either keep them in the majors or release them. Since the team is responsible for breaching the guarenteed contract (all MLB contracts are guarenteed) they must continue to pay their obligation.

In the NFL the team wouldn't have too... but in MLB they do.

Gastric ReFlux · 03-06-2003, 04:40 PM

never mind, Scott answered it above me, and answered it correctly.

Scott Vibert · 03-06-2003, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gastric ReFlux
I haven't GMed anything yet, but is it possible for you to reassign an old player like that to the the minors? If he refuses reassignment, would you then not take the salary hit?

You can reassign Veteran players to the minors without permission if you turn off the Minor League Options option from the Advanced League Setup screen.

chinaski · 03-06-2003, 04:52 PM

I ended up trading Boone and Olerud for Jose Vidro, Jeff Liefer and 3 blue chips (a 5, 4, 3 star). Olerud and Boone were in their last years of their contracts and are both 35.

What a ripoff for Montreal!

Coudnt the games trade logic work off of current stats, instead of talent ratings? Why would the Expos trade for 2 players hitting .220 with 400 ab's..for Vidro (.303, 9 HR's 60 rbi), 3 amazing prospects and a 1 gold star 1st baseman?

X ny mets 2003 x · 03-06-2003, 04:57 PM

i just inked up Aj Burnett (now 29) to a 9 mill.. 7 year contract.. when hes 36.. im sure ill let him walk

KCRoyalsFan · 03-06-2003, 05:00 PM

35+ seems to be the average age to start decaying. Usually they are done by 38-39 for good.

Sandberg · 03-06-2003, 06:13 PM

I agree with MRex. I have played a league into 2009 and watched as Larry Walker hit .400 or better 6 times in the 10 years of my league. He's now 42 years old and has ratings of (760455) and coming off his 10th straight Outstanding Batter Award!!!

How much of this is due to playing in Coors though?

Shawn

carlivar · 03-06-2003, 06:18 PM

So judging from one reply there is at least some sort of random element in the decay? I would say MOST players should start decaying in their mid-30's and be about washed up by 38-40. Especially pitchers, less so for batters.

For the game to be realistic, some players should randomly continue to be effective into their late 30's and maybe even when they hit 40. I hope that's the case...

Hmm what would be even more interesting is if the chance and degree of decay was affected by factors like:

-type and severity of injuries throughout career
-type of pitches thrown for pitchers (knuckleballers for instance should decay MUCH slower, screwballers faster, etc.)
-velocity for pitchers. more velocity usually leads to higher chance of arm trouble and thus more decay. or also the pitcher loses velocity naturally due to age and is unable to compensate because velocity has been his "bread and butter". finesse pitchers decay much slower...

Always exceptions though... look at Nolan Ryan.

Carl

Erithtotl · 03-06-2003, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott Vibert
There is only one thing that is unrealistic about this. That is the time frame that you pay the player... in real life you'd just continue paying him over the period of his contract, in OOTP you pay it off at once and immediately clear the contract from your books.

In real life Veteran Players have the right to refuse minor league assignment. At which point the team can either keep them in the majors or release them. Since the team is responsible for breaching the guarenteed contract (all MLB contracts are guarenteed) they must continue to pay their obligation.

In the NFL the team wouldn't have too... but in MLB they do.

This is exactly what I was refering too. It would be nice to release the guy and not have to take the cash hit instantly, was what I was saying. I don't want to turn off the 'refuse reassignment' because I think its realistic for other reasons. Also in real life a released player who is still under contract with someone if they are picked up by someone else I believe that team is responsible for their original salary?

Rockpile · 03-07-2003, 12:42 PM

About Larry Walker...

I play a lot as the Rockies or as teams in Coors. It seems like the inflated stats cause pitcher to lose ratings and hitters to develop pretty well.

I like to bring up my hitters as soon as they are ready for the bigs, but ill keep my pitchers in AAA a little longer.

I think Walker may stick around a while longer because he is putting up good numbers and I THINK that performance is figured into development on some level...

I THINK...

03-06-2003, 04:08 PM	#1
KCRoyalsFan All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 599	Wow I love player decay It seems to be working really well...I'll give an example. At 33 this pitcher seems to of hit his prime. 22-5 1.64 ERA 180Ks then he gradually gets worse until at 37 he finally doesn't got what it takes anymore 23-7 2.10 ERA 220Ks 18-7 2.72 ERA 155Ks 7-5 3.48 ERA 82Ks 10-10 4.33 ERA 78Ks Be weary of signing these guys long term in their prime. I signed him until his last season where he went 10-10 and he was still making 10 mil a year...

03-06-2003, 06:13 PM	#15
Sandberg All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 568	I agree with MRex. I have played a league into 2009 and watched as Larry Walker hit .400 or better 6 times in the 10 years of my league. He's now 42 years old and has ratings of (760455) and coming off his 10th straight Outstanding Batter Award!!! How much of this is due to playing in Coors though? Shawn __________________ Shawn Dylla Asahi 3 Baseball - Commissioner and Twins

03-06-2003, 04:14 PM	#2
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	I think a lot of OOTP4ers are going to have to readjust their thinking on contracts and player decay. I agree though. Player development and decline arcs look more realistic than in v4.

03-06-2003, 04:15 PM	#3
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,211

03-06-2003, 04:15 PM	#4
JWay Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Posts: 5,021	yes i've grown to love the 2 year contract I also like the fact of this feature because it forces teams to shuffle each year. Should make online leagues more intresting. Because now more than ever prospects are 1 on 6 on reaching 80% of their potential. And all players have the possiblity of being one injury away from being retired. One thing I don't like, is the fact the players still linger, they still don't retire all the time.

03-06-2003, 04:29 PM	#5
chinaski Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: end of the bar Posts: 296	the worst for me is seeing Boone and Olerud go down hill 1 season into my career with the M's :/ Olerud will never tire i tell you, NEVER!!! Boone however, is a mystery and his decline at 35 isnt a surprise, imo. I just had Olerud go from hitting .290 with 101 rbis in 2003, to .230 and 5 homers in 2004, with the same # of AB's. guh. wth? Hes the most consistant player in baseball damnit!!! just look at those numbers!

03-06-2003, 04:33 PM	#6
KCRoyalsFan All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 599	lol sure was disappointing for me to sign chuck finley as like a 4-5 star and watch him plummet to a 1 star by the seasons end, needless to say he was not with the team long. Its really hard to trade high contract old guys, I don't think its possible.

03-06-2003, 04:35 PM	#7
Erithtotl Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 330	A BIG problem with this is that you can't waive old, useless players, you must CUT them, so you have to pay all their salary up front or keep them on the 25 man roster, which is unrealistic.

03-06-2003, 04:39 PM	#8
Mrexbaseball Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 471 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	It's cool because not only do players usually decay, but once in awhile you will see a player get really old, and still play awesome. I was in a career league and Larry Walker hit 39 - and he was playing like he was 29...great game Markus.

03-06-2003, 04:40 PM	#10
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	never mind, Scott answered it above me, and answered it correctly.

03-06-2003, 04:52 PM	#12
chinaski Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: end of the bar Posts: 296	I ended up trading Boone and Olerud for Jose Vidro, Jeff Liefer and 3 blue chips (a 5, 4, 3 star). Olerud and Boone were in their last years of their contracts and are both 35. What a ripoff for Montreal! Coudnt the games trade logic work off of current stats, instead of talent ratings? Why would the Expos trade for 2 players hitting .220 with 400 ab's..for Vidro (.303, 9 HR's 60 rbi), 3 amazing prospects and a 1 gold star 1st baseman?

03-06-2003, 04:57 PM	#13
X ny mets 2003 x Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 48	i just inked up Aj Burnett (now 29) to a 9 mill.. 7 year contract.. when hes 36.. im sure ill let him walk

03-06-2003, 05:00 PM	#14
KCRoyalsFan All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 599	35+ seems to be the average age to start decaying. Usually they are done by 38-39 for good.

03-06-2003, 06:18 PM	#16
carlivar Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 18	So judging from one reply there is at least some sort of random element in the decay? I would say MOST players should start decaying in their mid-30's and be about washed up by 38-40. Especially pitchers, less so for batters. For the game to be realistic, some players should randomly continue to be effective into their late 30's and maybe even when they hit 40. I hope that's the case... Hmm what would be even more interesting is if the chance and degree of decay was affected by factors like: -type and severity of injuries throughout career -type of pitches thrown for pitchers (knuckleballers for instance should decay MUCH slower, screwballers faster, etc.) -velocity for pitchers. more velocity usually leads to higher chance of arm trouble and thus more decay. or also the pitcher loses velocity naturally due to age and is unable to compensate because velocity has been his "bread and butter". finesse pitchers decay much slower... Always exceptions though... look at Nolan Ryan. Carl

03-07-2003, 12:42 PM	#18
Rockpile All Star Reserve Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 620	About Larry Walker... I play a lot as the Rockies or as teams in Coors. It seems like the inflated stats cause pitcher to lose ratings and hitters to develop pretty well. I like to bring up my hitters as soon as they are ready for the bigs, but ill keep my pitchers in AAA a little longer. I think Walker may stick around a while longer because he is putting up good numbers and I THINK that performance is figured into development on some level... I THINK...