Current MiLB classification levels

[ArcAngel]

Ok, so far as I understand, as of the 2016 season, there are these minor league classifications:

Triple A (AAA) (IL, PCL, LMB)
Double A (AA) (EL, SL, TL)
Single A - Advanced (A+) (some refer to this as High A) (CAL, CAR, FSL)
Single A (A) (MIDW, SAL)
Single A - Short Season (A-) (Low A) (NYPL, NWL)
Rookie - Advanced (R+) (APP, PIO)
Rookie (R) (AZL, GCL)

Now, for the purposes of my understanding, are the seasonal (spring, summer, fall, winter) leagues grouped as the lowest R level, or would they be considered independant?

[BigRed75]

Neither. They don't fall under the purview of Minor League Baseball.

Things like Cactus and Grapefruit and Arizona Fall League are run by MLB. Winter leagues are run by the governing body of the host country. "Wooden bat" leagues like the Cape Cod and Coastal Plain Leagues are amateur leagues.

[ArcAngel]

So for OOTP's purposes, seasonal leagues could be set up as independent leagues, then?

[BigRed75]

I suppose, but until a "loan" system is in place, you'd have to be in Commissioner Mode a lot, moving players from their old teams to temporary teams and back again. There would also be service time considerations, contract information might get wiped, etc. To me, it'd be a giant PITA, but IYGPIYW.

[ArcAngel]

Ok, now I understand why there's "no support" for winter leagues in the game.

It's a bummer too because I just created a 1969 league, and it included the FIL (though incorrectly named at first), so I just got done creating the uniforms for them.

[NoOne]

worth noting that there is no difference in A-ball levels or rookie levels -- but short A is a distinct level. you can name them high a and low a but the ai doesn't see a difference.

unless it's a new selection from league level during creation or possibly in league structure after you start. use that as the reasoning for the above. if it isn't defined in the game, it's not a league level (of competition) in the game.

.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by NoOne

worth noting that there is no difference in A-ball levels or rookie levels -- but short A is a distinct level. you can name them high a and low a but the ai doesn't see a difference.

unless it's a new selection from league level during creation or possibly in league structure after you start. use that as the reasoning for the above. if it isn't defined in the game, it's not a league level (of competition) in the game.

.

There is a difference in ootp between the different A ball leagues. Ootp knows that the A league with higher pcm's than an A league with lower pcm's is a higher level

[ArcAngel]

Well, both the game and bbref make the distinction on the A levels, though no distinction is made in OOTP on the R levels.

It seems clear that OOTP and bbref are consistent from MLB down through SSA, but differ on the rookie level distinctions, which is what was confusing for me.

So, just trying to get this sorted in my head before I embark on creating my monster league.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by ArcAngel

Well, both the game and bbref make the distinction on the A levels, though no distinction is made in OOTP on the R levels.

It seems clear that OOTP and bbref are consistent from MLB down through SSA, but differ on the rookie level distinctions, which is what was confusing for me.

So, just trying to get this sorted in my head before I embark on creating my monster league.

I highly recommend reading both of these

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_...ookie_Advanced

Understanding minor league levels ? The Hardball Times

[sabrtoothtiger]

I changed APPY league and Pioneer league to be recognized as 'R+' for statistical purposes. One big issue that I see with the current engine is the fact that teams will have players that are far too old at this rookie levels. Usually if you are still in rookie levels at 23-24 you get cut.

It would be in nice addition if in future games they made a criteria that wasn't set just on players age for maximum at a level, but instead 'years pro'. That way you didn't have 30 year old guys taking away ABs from a 20 year old in A ball... for example

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

There is a difference in ootp between the different A ball leagues. Ootp knows that the A league with higher pcm's than an A league with lower pcm's is a higher level

don't confuse statistical results with league level.

you can put whatevre LT/LTM you want for each league level... it doesn't change their "League Level" setting. that is how it differentiates development and whatver other related factors.

I have not looked lately, but if in league settings->league structure settings page you click the drop down box for league level and it contains different types of rookie league levels, then it does understand.... this dropdown list is the answer to what the game understands. (if i was wrong about which leagues are real, it doesnt matter, the list is what matters - that's the thing you want to listen to)

again, resulting stats have nothign to do with this league level setting. you can make the league slash .400/.600/.1200 if you want and it will not effect develpment because it's all still in scale (in the important ways if not all ways).

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by sabrtoothtiger

I changed APPY league and Pioneer league to be recognized as 'R+' for statistical purposes. One big issue that I see with the current engine is the fact that teams will have players that are far too old at this rookie levels. Usually if you are still in rookie levels at 23-24 you get cut.

It would be in nice addition if in future games they made a criteria that wasn't set just on players age for maximum at a level, but instead 'years pro'. That way you didn't have 30 year old guys taking away ABs from a 20 year old in A ball... for example

this always has happened... use the newer Service Time Limits in Settings-Rules, i believe, or thereabouts. you'll have to set it for each minor league you wish to set in that way

don't get too gung ho aobut it.... think of worse case scenario you are willing to accept and use that amuont of time. probably 3-6 years for rookie depending on who you ask...

i use 4 for rookie and 5 or 6 for Short A. then i go to 7/9 for A/AA, respectively (*memory could be off on anything above rookie, lol). The further you go up, the less the need to use roster limits, imo... never use them in AAA due to mlb depth and rehabs. even AA might be better without one, i am still testing this as it's a new feature this year.

avoid age limits now that this setting is available... unless in your league newly created palyers are a very specific age as opposed to 17-23ish.

why 4 for rookie? i want the 18 year olds to have at least 4 years to get to short A (maybe even 5)... if they take 4 years to do that, i don't want to give a huge leash after that - treat half levels that you use, like rookie to short-A, a bit differently since it's a baby-step. the first tier i want to be forgiving, but as the "worst-case" example player moves along i want to give a shorter leash... that's why it's roughly +2 years each at A/AA. if they don't start upward movemnt of ratings by then, the odds are only going to get worse that they even develop whatsoever. use your perception of wort-case scenario and work your way up the chain.


Another thread brought this to mind... if you are seeing anythign strange in the first 5-10 years (longer if MLB related) of a Real players game transitioning to fictional players -- ignore it for a few more years to make sure it's a real thing. the minors are really different beasts between 2016 real players and fictional ones... they've definitely done some things to smooth the transition out this year, but they are band-aid type fixes and not a solution to the problem.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by NoOne

don't confuse statistical results with league level.

you can put whatevre LT/LTM you want for each league level... it doesn't change their "League Level" setting. that is how it differentiates development and whatver other related factors.

I have not looked lately, but if in league settings->league structure settings page you click the drop down box for league level and it contains different types of rookie league levels, then it does understand.... this dropdown list is the answer to what the game understands. (if i was wrong about which leagues are real, it doesnt matter, the list is what matters - that's the thing you want to listen to)

again, resulting stats have nothign to do with this league level setting. you can make the league slash .400/.600/.1200 if you want and it will not effect develpment because it's all still in scale (in the important ways if not all ways).

No I said PCM's

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

I highly recommend reading both of these

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_...ookie_Advanced

Understanding minor league levels ? The Hardball Times

A few points to mention:

(1) It isn't clear when the 'A' level was officially split into Advanced and regular (or, 'High' and 'Low'). The earliest reference I can find to 'A' being split into two distinct levels is in the early 1990s, in the Baseball America Directory publications. Unofficially, the split existed some years before that.

(2) 'Short Season A' didn't exist until 1965, which is the first year an 'A' level league—the Northern League—began playing a short schedule. The Northwest League did the same in 1966, and the New York-Penn League in 1967.

(3) The distinction between 'Rookie Advanced' and 'Rookie' is less clear now than it once was. See this article from Jan. of 2008, which mentions changes to active roster rules. Note specifically this paragraph:

In Thursday's other rule change, Rule 51 concerning limits on Minor League service time eliminated the distinction between the levels Rookie, where the limit had been two years, and Rookie Advanced, where players could be kept for three years.

Henceforth, the three-year limit will apply to both.

Thus, in terms of how long a player is qualified to play in the Rookie levels, there seems to no longer be any distinction between the two. The two levels are still distinguished in terms of the 'Rookie Advanced' leagues—the Appalachian and Pioneer—still have for-profit clubs which play in specific town parks and charge admission; the Arizona and Gulf Coast Leagues play at the spring training parks of their major league parent clubs, and no admission is charged nor attendance records kept.

(4) The first year 'Rookie' was officially used was in 1964. The first were the Cocoa Rookie League and Sarasota Rookie League, both of which operated much as the current AZL and GCL do, and the Pioneer League. However, according to the National Association Agreement rules as published in the Baseball Blue Book annual, the 'Rookie' classification existed earlier. starting in at least 1959, and probably before that. It was distinguished from 'Class D' in terms of its roster limit being different, and the fact that it was specifically to play a shorter schedule. Based on this, it is my contention that the Appalachian League (1957-onward) and Nebraska State League (1956-59), referred to as 'D' leagues in sources, were in fact the first 'Rookie' level leagues.

(This would explain their different active roster limit—21 compared to 17 for 'D' leagues—and why they played short-season schedules while other 'D' leagues still played longer seasons, usually 120+ games.)

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

No I said PCM's

those are only used when you use a Fill function in league settings. Newly created players for your draft, intenational ama FA/fa/discoveries are all based on your MLB PCM - for that league and it's associated minor leagues.

if you started just a AAA league game world and set up a draft or it just created X number each year it will be based on the AAA pcm. I think... never done this type of thing.

i may have talked about the wrong things previously, but luckily still the same ends :P

There is no high/low A in OotP, as far as anythign important regarding development or how a player moves through a minor league system. if it's unaffiliated then i guess the different pcm's would be a difference in what fills the league, but?? then there's no need to worry about classification if just 1 league. call it anything you want.

this image below is all ootp sees for the context of this thread's topic and from what i think i just read in another thread the independent and lower listed stuff is all non-affiliated leagues right? you can't have winter league be part of your orgnaiztion if i am not mistaken? so you can't even use a workaround to add another tier to have a quasi extra tier and rename them from there.

so, if it's not in the list, it's not inthe game. the only different between the real-world rookie leagues is when they begin their season. that way you can play your top young prospects a full season before they get to A-ball.