Contracts Renewing & Arbitration

SxSnts9 · 05-26-2016, 09:19 AM

Can someone explain when/why these go into effect? I'd like to be able to plan my future contracts with a little more certainty. I'm guessing it has something to do with service time, but is it only related to once someone reaches the major league roster?

Thanks in advance.

eriqjaffe · 05-26-2016, 10:15 AM

Yes, it relates to major league time.

3 years at league minimum (contracts auto-renew)
3 years arbitration-eligible

Of course, you can "buy out" some/any of those years by negotiating a contract extension. I generally only do that when players are arbitration eligible because (IIRC) allowing players to go to arbitration can affect their mood and willingness to negotiate with you down the road. At the very least, it's very common practice in the real world to sign players to 1-year contracts rather than let them go to arbitration so I tend to follow suit. The AI generally does not do this.

After that, the player is eligible for free agency. There are some exceptions to that (namely, "Super Two" players who become arbitration eligible a year early).

Wikipedia breaks it down pretty well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_...ry_arbitration

But just because they never see the majors doesn't mean they can't become free agents - after a number of years (I think it's 6, maybe 7) minor leaguers can also become free agents, although you can usually re-sign them to minor league contracts and they stick around.

NoOne · 05-26-2016, 11:41 AM

yeah, if they are quality players that you want to keep into their early 30's (like 31-32), sign them for long-term while they are in this first 6 years of service time.

some will be interested, some will not... also, try each year even if they weren't interested the year before.

nothing worse than having to sign a 28 year old to a 7-10 year contract knowing they will likely be total crap the last 2-3 years relative to salary... get them young and you avoid this. ratings drops don't happen as often when younger... simple as that. they do still happen, but you won't be stuck with a bloated contract anywhere near as often.

if they are any good and get the playing time, they will be arbitration eligible after 2 years. if they continue to perform well they continue to increase arbitration salaries in a predictible way.

worst case, the guy is arb elig. in 2nd year and by year 6 his salary is 18-22M - with default modern financial environment settings.

pretty sure greed and loyalty are important factors as to whether they are willing to sign long-term before becoming a FA. maybe it's just loyalty and then greed affects demand?

BigRed75 · 05-26-2016, 07:53 PM

When a player is on auto-renew, it always seems to auto-renew at exactly the league minimum. That should help you with some of your forward financial planning.

SxSnts9 · 05-26-2016, 08:02 PM

Thanks everyone

MrBojangles · 05-26-2016, 08:17 PM

I've had great success signing younger players to long-term, modest contracts, prior to their eligibility for arbitration.

For example- a 21 year-old 5/5 star pitcher to an 8 year $14M/year contract. He set several records in our league during that time. When he finally became FA eligible, he wouldn't take less than $26M/year.

So, it's a good strategy, if you can get them to sign up for it.

SxSnts9 · 05-27-2016, 09:01 AM

Ooooh one more question.

When you say:
3 years auto renew at least minimum
3 years arbitration

Does that mean they have to spend full years? I thought it meant as soon as they are first called up and receive their major league contract no matter how long they spend on the pro team after that. Which is it?

BigRed75 · 05-27-2016, 09:34 AM

It's three years of service time, and one year equates to 172 days, to account for off days in the system.

There's some arcane rules to prevent teams from vindictively stopping the clock by sending a player down to the minors for a short period of time. Not sure of the specifics but it involves they have to spend a certain amount of time in the minors between call ups or else the time counts anyway. Basically, it's to prevent teams from sending a guy down so they end up being a few days short of the target (Super Two is also designed to prevent this)

Time spent on the DL counts toward service time.

NoOne · 05-28-2016, 01:25 PM

there's virtually no rules that stop a club from doing so...

the 3 years of auto-renewal (@ leauge minimum) may be 2 years if they play alot.... the bottom line is it's 6 years of club control. (yes, service time = years, not literal years). when really good players get 4 years of arbitration vs 3, they tend to get to ~20M the final year of club control. it's a pretty consistent 'stepping' of salaries - assuming relatively consistent results each year.

rough estimate off the top of my head for a "Superstar" player and far from precise: 3-4M, then 8-10M, then 14-16M, then 18-22M if they are good every year with default financial settings. again, this is someone who starts their career off like a Hall of Famer or near that.

e.g. the cubbies 3B wunderkind slugger. they sent him down and he magically didn't get enough days to get 1 year of service time last year or the year before, whatever. -- if i recall correctly... if not, there is no shortage of examples i guarantee.

do all GM do it? probably not... but nothing stops them from doing it. "we felt he needed more seasoning" / "it was best for the team" / "it was a numbers game" is all the excuse they have to give, and they don't even have to give an excuse. the real reason is defintely to extend club control one more year... no doubt about it. "follow the money" or i prefer "follow the motivation" and you find the answer everytime.

@ 172days, just one 15day disabled stine will provide 1 extra year of club control... just 13-14 days sent down to the minors will do it too.... you'll need to know the # of days of your regular season schedule to do the math. this # of days required is in your settings, refer to manual if you want to change it. i may be off on small details.. if you want to take advantage of this, do a little googling and reading.

other caveat: only 1 year can be accrued in a season... so having 172days plus another 13 doesn't carry over... that guy now has 1 year of service time and NOT 1yr 13days. you cannot accrue more than 1 year in a season. it may display the extra days while in that current year/offseason, but as you move forward on the calendar it will be correct eventually.

bwburke94 · 05-28-2016, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoOne

@ 172days, just one 15day disabled stint will provide 1 extra year of club control... just 13-14 days sent down to the minors will do it too...

DL time does count as service time, so only sending a player down to the minors would prevent him from hitting 1 year of service after his first ML season.

PSUColonel · 05-28-2016, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eriqjaffe

Yes, it relates to major league time.

3 years at league minimum (contracts auto-renew)
3 years arbitration-eligible

Of course, you can "buy out" some/any of those years by negotiating a contract extension. I generally only do that when players are arbitration eligible because (IIRC) allowing players to go to arbitration can affect their mood and willingness to negotiate with you down the road. At the very least, it's very common practice in the real world to sign players to 1-year contracts rather than let them go to arbitration so I tend to follow suit. The AI generally does not do this.

After that, the player is eligible for free agency. There are some exceptions to that (namely, "Super Two" players who become arbitration eligible a year early).

Wikipedia breaks it down pretty well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_...ry_arbitration

But just because they never see the majors doesn't mean they can't become free agents - after a number of years (I think it's 6, maybe 7) minor leaguers can also become free agents, although you can usually re-sign them to minor league contracts and they stick around.

I was unaware players are tougher to negotiate with down the road and/or affected mood/morale. When was this implemented? A great feature if you ask me!! If really like to see the AI doing the same however.

BigRed75 · 05-29-2016, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoOne

@ 172days, just one 15day disabled stine will provide 1 extra year of club control... just 13-14 days sent down to the minors will do it too.... you'll need to know the # of days of your regular season schedule to do the math. this # of days required is in your settings, refer to manual if you want to change it. i may be off on small details.. if you want to take advantage of this, do a little googling and reading.

As I pointed out in the post above, DL time absolutely does count to service time. I also mentioned that if the time spent in the minors is short, that also counts toward service time to prevent teams from screwing over players. Turns out, the amount is less than 20 days in the minors:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arizona Phil

A player normally does not accrue MLB Service Time for days spent on Optional Assignment to the minor leagues. However, if a player spends less than 20 days on Optional Assignment to the minors during the course of a given MLB regular season, the player gets credit for MLB Service Time for the days spent on Optional Assignment. But if the player spends at least 20 days on Optional Assignment to the minors in a given MLB regular season, the player does not accrue MLB Service Time for the days spent on Optional Assignment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoOne

other caveat: only 1 year can be accrued in a season... so having 172days plus another 13 doesn't carry over... that guy now has 1 year of service time and NOT 1yr 13days. you cannot accrue more than 1 year in a season. it may display the extra days while in that current year/offseason, but as you move forward on the calendar it will be correct eventually.

This is absolutely correct, and very important to remember.

NoOne · 05-30-2016, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I was unaware players are tougher to negotiate with down the road and/or affected mood/morale. When was this implemented? A great feature if you ask me!! If really like to see the AI doing the same however.

it's at least random. sometimes i can sign them, sometimes i cannot. i am pretty sure one or both of loyalty and greed are involved in some way - if not in an absolute/direct way.

NoOne · 05-30-2016, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRed75

As I pointed out in the post above, DL time absolutely does count to service time. I also mentioned that if the time spent in the minors is short, that also counts toward service time to prevent teams from screwing over players. Turns out, the amount is less than 20 days in the minors:

google's for specifics

dcd111 · 06-02-2016, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I was unaware players are tougher to negotiate with down the road and/or affected mood/morale. When was this implemented? A great feature if you ask me!! If really like to see the AI doing the same however.

Are we certain the AI doesn't do this? I took over a team a day or two after the end of a season and was shocked to find that the preceding AI GM had already offered every player that was eligible for arbitration a one-year extension that they all ultimately accepted. I know this is anecdotal, but it at least means the AI must consider doing this in certain circumstances.

05-26-2016, 09:19 AM	#1
SxSnts9 Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2016 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 154	Contracts Renewing & Arbitration Can someone explain when/why these go into effect? I'd like to be able to plan my future contracts with a little more certainty. I'm guessing it has something to do with service time, but is it only related to once someone reaches the major league roster? Thanks in advance. __________________ "They let me down real easy when they cut me. I showed up at the stadium and was told that visitors aren't allowed in the clubhouse." - Bob Uecker

05-26-2016, 10:15 AM	#2
eriqjaffe Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Location: Under The Christmas Fish Posts: 7,731	Yes, it relates to major league time. 3 years at league minimum (contracts auto-renew) 3 years arbitration-eligible Of course, you can "buy out" some/any of those years by negotiating a contract extension. I generally only do that when players are arbitration eligible because (IIRC) allowing players to go to arbitration can affect their mood and willingness to negotiate with you down the road. At the very least, it's very common practice in the real world to sign players to 1-year contracts rather than let them go to arbitration so I tend to follow suit. The AI generally does not do this. After that, the player is eligible for free agency. There are some exceptions to that (namely, "Super Two" players who become arbitration eligible a year early). Wikipedia breaks it down pretty well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_...ry_arbitration But just because they never see the majors doesn't mean they can't become free agents - after a number of years (I think it's 6, maybe 7) minor leaguers can also become free agents, although you can usually re-sign them to minor league contracts and they stick around. __________________ Last edited by eriqjaffe; 05-26-2016 at 10:17 AM.

05-26-2016, 07:53 PM	#4
BigRed75 Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,423	When a player is on auto-renew, it always seems to auto-renew at exactly the league minimum. That should help you with some of your forward financial planning. __________________ Mainline team SPTT team Was not a Snag fan...until I saw the fallout once he was gone and realized what a good job he was actually doing. - Ty Cobb

05-26-2016, 08:02 PM	#5
SxSnts9 Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2016 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 154	Thanks everyone __________________ "They let me down real easy when they cut me. I showed up at the stadium and was told that visitors aren't allowed in the clubhouse." - Bob Uecker

05-27-2016, 09:01 AM	#7
SxSnts9 Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2016 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 154	Ooooh one more question. When you say: 3 years auto renew at least minimum 3 years arbitration Does that mean they have to spend full years? I thought it meant as soon as they are first called up and receive their major league contract no matter how long they spend on the pro team after that. Which is it? __________________ "They let me down real easy when they cut me. I showed up at the stadium and was told that visitors aren't allowed in the clubhouse." - Bob Uecker

05-26-2016, 11:41 AM	#3
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	yeah, if they are quality players that you want to keep into their early 30's (like 31-32), sign them for long-term while they are in this first 6 years of service time. some will be interested, some will not... also, try each year even if they weren't interested the year before. nothing worse than having to sign a 28 year old to a 7-10 year contract knowing they will likely be total crap the last 2-3 years relative to salary... get them young and you avoid this. ratings drops don't happen as often when younger... simple as that. they do still happen, but you won't be stuck with a bloated contract anywhere near as often. if they are any good and get the playing time, they will be arbitration eligible after 2 years. if they continue to perform well they continue to increase arbitration salaries in a predictible way. worst case, the guy is arb elig. in 2nd year and by year 6 his salary is 18-22M - with default modern financial environment settings. pretty sure greed and loyalty are important factors as to whether they are willing to sign long-term before becoming a FA. maybe it's just loyalty and then greed affects demand?

05-26-2016, 08:17 PM	#6
MrBojangles All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: low and inside Posts: 568	I've had great success signing younger players to long-term, modest contracts, prior to their eligibility for arbitration. For example- a 21 year-old 5/5 star pitcher to an 8 year $14M/year contract. He set several records in our league during that time. When he finally became FA eligible, he wouldn't take less than $26M/year. So, it's a good strategy, if you can get them to sign up for it.

05-27-2016, 09:34 AM	#8
BigRed75 Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,423	It's three years of service time, and one year equates to 172 days, to account for off days in the system. There's some arcane rules to prevent teams from vindictively stopping the clock by sending a player down to the minors for a short period of time. Not sure of the specifics but it involves they have to spend a certain amount of time in the minors between call ups or else the time counts anyway. Basically, it's to prevent teams from sending a guy down so they end up being a few days short of the target (Super Two is also designed to prevent this) Time spent on the DL counts toward service time. __________________ Mainline team SPTT team Was not a Snag fan...until I saw the fallout once he was gone and realized what a good job he was actually doing. - Ty Cobb

05-28-2016, 01:25 PM	#9
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	there's virtually no rules that stop a club from doing so... the 3 years of auto-renewal (@ leauge minimum) may be 2 years if they play alot.... the bottom line is it's 6 years of club control. (yes, service time = years, not literal years). when really good players get 4 years of arbitration vs 3, they tend to get to ~20M the final year of club control. it's a pretty consistent 'stepping' of salaries - assuming relatively consistent results each year. rough estimate off the top of my head for a "Superstar" player and far from precise: 3-4M, then 8-10M, then 14-16M, then 18-22M if they are good every year with default financial settings. again, this is someone who starts their career off like a Hall of Famer or near that. e.g. the cubbies 3B wunderkind slugger. they sent him down and he magically didn't get enough days to get 1 year of service time last year or the year before, whatever. -- if i recall correctly... if not, there is no shortage of examples i guarantee. do all GM do it? probably not... but nothing stops them from doing it. "we felt he needed more seasoning" / "it was best for the team" / "it was a numbers game" is all the excuse they have to give, and they don't even have to give an excuse. the real reason is defintely to extend club control one more year... no doubt about it. "follow the money" or i prefer "follow the motivation" and you find the answer everytime. @ 172days, just one 15day disabled stine will provide 1 extra year of club control... just 13-14 days sent down to the minors will do it too.... you'll need to know the # of days of your regular season schedule to do the math. this # of days required is in your settings, refer to manual if you want to change it. i may be off on small details.. if you want to take advantage of this, do a little googling and reading. other caveat: only 1 year can be accrued in a season... so having 172days plus another 13 doesn't carry over... that guy now has 1 year of service time and NOT 1yr 13days. you cannot accrue more than 1 year in a season. it may display the extra days while in that current year/offseason, but as you move forward on the calendar it will be correct eventually. Last edited by NoOne; 05-28-2016 at 01:35 PM.