Why Does OOTP Hate Clones of Mickey Mantle?

The Game · 04-06-2016, 02:07 AM

I have 2 clones of Mickey Mantle and it seems that neither is great, especially on D. Yes Gagne has 518 career HR.

askeral · 04-06-2016, 09:54 PM

Silly Rabbit, there can only be ONE Mickey Mantle!

The Wolf · 04-06-2016, 09:57 PM

Because the player development engine is randomized?

Kirby · 04-07-2016, 04:55 PM

Actually...besides the defence...(in which you hear debates that the Mick only was good in CF for about3-4 years)....Gagne seems pretty accurate.

I know there aren't any 55+ HR Seasons but that could also be the fact that the year modifier you are using has lowered offence. Change that year to 1996-2003 for him in his prime and he would hit 60-70 likely.

Kirby

The Game · 04-08-2016, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirby

Actually...besides the defence...(in which you hear debates that the Mick only was good in CF for about3-4 years)....Gagne seems pretty accurate.

I know there aren't any 55+ HR Seasons but that could also be the fact that the year modifier you are using has lowered offence. Change that year to 1996-2003 for him in his prime and he would hit 60-70 likely.

Kirby

For Gagne his best years were with Rock City/ Rocky Top modifiers were 1980-1986 ish. His years with LV , HOU & Cubs are 2013-2015. Rocky Top plays in Mile High.

Painmantle · 04-08-2016, 08:55 AM

Kinda hard to actually say that the Bremer clone won't be something different when he grows up, the guy is only 18.

The Game · 04-09-2016, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painmantle

Kinda hard to actually say that the Bremer clone won't be something different when he grows up, the guy is only 18.

Part of what concerned me is that I do not control a team and he had basically no potential ratings. He did great in '65. He looks much better now after getting some potential ratings. +13.1 in CF lat year.

The Game · 04-13-2016, 10:03 AM

Ok i take back what i said. Bremer won the 1st NA Triple Crown since 1945. Willie Horton won the AA Triple Crown last season and this season.

OzzieFan · 04-13-2016, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Because the player development engine is randomized?

Is it randomized? Is that why players seem to go up and down every year and its drives me literally nuts? I have come to believe it's a suckers bet to sign anyone to a big contract in OOTP. if you do... they will typically suck the next year, but some no name in AAA can come up and do well.

The Game · 05-06-2016, 01:15 AM

Not officially retired but solid career.

NYYANKS98 · 05-06-2016, 07:35 AM

You ask "Why is Mickey Mantle horrible?" but then proceed to use two guys who hit 1100+ home runs and but up 180 WAR. XD

OzzieFan · 05-06-2016, 09:46 AM

That being said in my recalc off historic replay... both DiMaggio and Mantle were very mediocre.

battists · 05-06-2016, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzzieFan

Is it randomized? Is that why players seem to go up and down every year and its drives me literally nuts? I have come to believe it's a suckers bet to sign anyone to a big contract in OOTP. if you do... they will typically suck the next year, but some no name in AAA can come up and do well.

Yes and no. It's random in the sense that OOTP doesn't realize that Mickey Mantle is Mickey Mantle, and then guarantee him to get awesome. (Although there are some historical settings that can do stuff similar to that.)

So, if you run 50 simulations, you'll get a curve where he performs well in most (since he probably starts with good potential ratings), and in others not so much.

It's a complex algorithm. It's not as simple as "Roll a die, and on a 1-3 he gets worse, and on a 4-6 he gets better."

BigRed75 · 05-06-2016, 01:23 PM

Perhaps there's an obvious answer that I can't see, but I'm curious to learn how you knew those two players were Mantle clones?

JMGC · 05-06-2016, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRed75

Perhaps there's an obvious answer that I can't see, but I'm curious to learn how you knew those two players were Mantle clones?

Maybe he imported Mantle and renamed him.

The Game · 05-06-2016, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYYANKS98

You ask "Why is Mickey Mantle horrible?" but then proceed to use two guys who hit 1100+ home runs and but up 180 WAR. XD

Wasn;t expecting the severe dropoff both players had and i did say i was wrong on Bremer..

The Game · 05-06-2016, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRed75

Perhaps there's an obvious answer that I can't see, but I'm curious to learn how you knew those two players were Mantle clones?

Yes i renamed them both.

NYYANKS98 · 05-06-2016, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Game

Wasn;t expecting the severe dropoff both players had and i did say i was wrong on Bremer..

Well Bremer was 18 and hit 27 HRs in 99 games, or ~45 in a full season. The other guy had a huge dropoff that at first glance looks quite possibly injury related. He had a record setting pace in a year where he only played 90 games and then dropped off an became a low average hitter afterwards but still managed another couple hundred home runs and looks like an obvious HOFer. Considering Mantle himself had nearly the exact same stats in terms of power that doesn't seem too off at all to me, especially considering what I am almost certain was a career changing injury, as he was a .300/1.000 guy beforehand. This just looks like a case of having unrealistic expectations and over reactions to small sample sizes with possibly a need for aging modifier changes if you feel players are declining too fast. I mean, I understand as I sometimes overreact to awful performance over small periods of time, these guys were pretty much consistently solid performers at their worst and MVPs at their best. I just don't see how you could've been disapponted by an 18 year old putting up 3+ WAR in just over half a season.

The Game · 05-08-2016, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYYANKS98

Well Bremer was 18 and hit 27 HRs in 99 games, or ~45 in a full season. The other guy had a huge dropoff that at first glance looks quite possibly injury related. He had a record setting pace in a year where he only played 90 games and then dropped off an became a low average hitter afterwards but still managed another couple hundred home runs and looks like an obvious HOFer. Considering Mantle himself had nearly the exact same stats in terms of power that doesn't seem too off at all to me, especially considering what I am almost certain was a career changing injury, as he was a .300/1.000 guy beforehand. This just looks like a case of having unrealistic expectations and over reactions to small sample sizes with possibly a need for aging modifier changes if you feel players are declining too fast. I mean, I understand as I sometimes overreact to awful performance over small periods of time, these guys were pretty much consistently solid performers at their worst and MVPs at their best. I just don't see how you could've been disapponted by an 18 year old putting up 3+ WAR in just over half a season.

1. Bremer was oft injured early in his career, Gagne was not. Gagne i keep as a SS, after he lost his SS rating he become a 1B/DH.

2. Aging modifiers for all my leagues are 0.975

3. 2 players in different eras 20 seasons a piece is a small smaple size to you? GTFO.

4. Original posting for this thread was the low potential ratings Bremer had. People turned it into what they wanted to turn it into.

NYYANKS98 · 05-08-2016, 12:12 PM

Your original post was after one season of his career. You still haven't checked if he suffered an injury at 27 that altered his career. The star ratings often have little relevance and change by extreme numbers only to return to where they belong shortly after for me, although I don't know if that's the case for you. You could've clarified you were referring to his stars in the opening post, as it seems quite obvious to me and everyone else he was outperforming those ratings and wasn't really worth any complaining over IMO

04-06-2016, 02:07 AM	#1
The Game Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Inside The Game Posts: 30,937	Why Does OOTP Hate Clones of Mickey Mantle? I have 2 clones of Mickey Mantle and it seems that neither is great, especially on D. Yes Gagne has 518 career HR. Attached Images __________________ Go today don't wait for tomorrow It isn't promised, all the time you get borrowed Don't live your life for other people Don't bottle your emotions till they crack and fill a couple just sorrows Take your mind and refocus go get a paper write your goals out Throw your middle fingers to all your haters "Stay Strong"

04-08-2016, 08:55 AM	#6
Painmantle Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Greenfield ,IN Posts: 3,053	Kinda hard to actually say that the Bremer clone won't be something different when he grows up, the guy is only 18. __________________ “As soon as I got out there I felt a strange relationship with the pitcher's mound. It was as if I'd been born out there. Pitching just felt like the most natural thing in the world. Striking out batters was easy.” -Babe Ruth “Ruth made a grave mistake when he gave up pitching. Working once a week, he might have lasted a long time and become a great star.”-Tris Speaker My Dynasties The Beantown Bambino

04-13-2016, 10:03 AM	#8
The Game Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Inside The Game Posts: 30,937	Ok i take back what i said. Bremer won the 1st NA Triple Crown since 1945. Willie Horton won the AA Triple Crown last season and this season. Attached Images __________________ Go today don't wait for tomorrow It isn't promised, all the time you get borrowed Don't live your life for other people Don't bottle your emotions till they crack and fill a couple just sorrows Take your mind and refocus go get a paper write your goals out Throw your middle fingers to all your haters "Stay Strong"

05-06-2016, 01:15 AM	#10
The Game Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Inside The Game Posts: 30,937	Not officially retired but solid career. Attached Images __________________ Go today don't wait for tomorrow It isn't promised, all the time you get borrowed Don't live your life for other people Don't bottle your emotions till they crack and fill a couple just sorrows Take your mind and refocus go get a paper write your goals out Throw your middle fingers to all your haters "Stay Strong"

05-06-2016, 01:23 PM	#14
BigRed75 Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,430	Perhaps there's an obvious answer that I can't see, but I'm curious to learn how you knew those two players were Mantle clones? __________________ Mainline team SPTT team Was not a Snag fan...until I saw the fallout once he was gone and realized what a good job he was actually doing. - Ty Cobb

04-06-2016, 09:54 PM	#2
askeral Bat Boy Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 2	Silly Rabbit, there can only be ONE Mickey Mantle!

04-07-2016, 04:55 PM	#4
Kirby Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 31	Actually...besides the defence...(in which you hear debates that the Mick only was good in CF for about3-4 years)....Gagne seems pretty accurate. I know there aren't any 55+ HR Seasons but that could also be the fact that the year modifier you are using has lowered offence. Change that year to 1996-2003 for him in his prime and he would hit 60-70 likely. Kirby

05-06-2016, 07:35 AM	#11
NYYANKS98 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 128	You ask "Why is Mickey Mantle horrible?" but then proceed to use two guys who hit 1100+ home runs and but up 180 WAR. XD

05-06-2016, 09:46 AM	#12
OzzieFan Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 248	That being said in my recalc off historic replay... both DiMaggio and Mantle were very mediocre.

05-08-2016, 12:12 PM	#20
NYYANKS98 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 128	Your original post was after one season of his career. You still haven't checked if he suffered an injury at 27 that altered his career. The star ratings often have little relevance and change by extreme numbers only to return to where they belong shortly after for me, although I don't know if that's the case for you. You could've clarified you were referring to his stars in the opening post, as it seems quite obvious to me and everyone else he was outperforming those ratings and wasn't really worth any complaining over IMO