Spring Training and learning new positions

[nokmirt]

I was looking at this article.


Trading places: How MLB stars use spring training to learn new jobs


After reading it, I thought learning new positions could be an add on for OOTP in an upcoming game at some point. Where you can work with rookies and veterans, helping them learn new positions, using backfield drills and so on, during Spring training. Then you can give pitchers simulated games if they are coming back from injury, or just need to work on mechanics and other issues. The other thing could be using Spring stats for filling out roster positions based on performance. I feel this would bring out the importance of Spring Training. And also, make it more interesting than it is now in the game. Let me know what you think.

[SirMichaelJordan]

That would be great if players didn't generate with so much experience at multiple positions already. It's seriously one of the only major gripes I have with this game.

If Hanley Ramirez was a generated player in OOTP he'd already come into the world with good experience at LF and 1st Base considering he was a SS.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by nokmirt

I was looking at this article.


Trading places: How MLB stars use spring training to learn new jobs


After reading it, I thought learning new positions could be an add on for OOTP in an upcoming game at some point. Where you can work with rookies and veterans, helping them learn new positions, using backfield drills and so on, during Spring training. Then you can give pitchers simulated games if they are coming back from injury, or just need to work on mechanics and other issues. The other thing could be using Spring stats for filling out roster positions based on performance. I feel this would bring out the importance of Spring Training. And also, make it more interesting than it is now in the game. Let me know what you think.

There is nothing in-game now that prevents you from having a player learn a new position or improve an existing one. You can use ST stats to make roster decisions now. I do both.

Keep in mind that IRL, performance in ST rarely secures a position on the 25 man roster unless you are already there or close. Decision making in baseball is very much wrapped around player options, service time implications and the depth chart at a given position. Good teams with few holes offer little hope to a player with options no matter what they do in ST. OTOH a veteran on a MLB contract with no options or enough service time to refuse assignment is seen as an asset and not likely to be replaced unless a trade can be worked out during ST.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by RchW

There is nothing in-game now that prevents you from having a player learn a new position or improve an existing one. You can use ST stats to make roster decisions now. I do both.

Keep in mind that IRL, performance in ST rarely secures a position on the 25 man roster unless you are already there or close. Decision making in baseball is very much wrapped around player options, service time implications and the depth chart at a given position. Good teams with few holes offer little hope to a player with options no matter what they do in ST. OTOH a veteran on a MLB contract with no options or enough service time to refuse assignment is seen as an asset and not likely to be replaced unless a trade can be worked out during ST.

While I have you here, Rch, and we're talking about this, it crossed my mind that at the end of almost every ST (and I'm looking back at about a dozen years or more league time) a lot of my best performers have been guys who, frankly, don't stand a chance on paper of making on to the active roster, while my regulars look like they mailed it in. Any similar experience? Ever give one of those left-it-all-on-the-field guys a chance?

[RchW]

Originally Posted by endgame

While I have you here, Rch, and we're talking about this, it crossed my mind that at the end of almost every ST (and I'm looking back at about a dozen years or more league time) a lot of my best performers have been guys who, frankly, don't stand a chance on paper of making on to the active roster, while my regulars look like they mailed it in. Any similar experience? Ever give one of those left-it-all-on-the-field guys a chance?

Not really, but in OOTP v real life I can often exist with 32-35 on the 40 man roster. That makes it easier for a ST performer to win a spot. I'd say that's the next step for future versions. Make a full 40-man necessary ie little difference between player 25 and player 40 which in turn forces really difficult decisions regarding who stays and who goes. It's all about talent distribution.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by RchW

Not really, but in OOTP v real life I can often exist with 32-35 on the 40 man roster. That makes it easier for a ST performer to win a spot. I'd say that's the next step for future versions. Make a full 40-man necessary ie little difference between player 25 and player 40 which in turn forces really difficult decisions regarding who stays and who goes. It's all about talent distribution.

Interesting. Not to wander completely off topic, but my league evolution last year went to 26 men on the active roster. Didn't think that'd be much different, but found it really did give me an experimental slot I didn't have before.

[Ron.]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

That would be great if players didn't generate with so much experience at multiple positions already. It's seriously one of the only major gripes I have with this game.

Not only this, but as far as I know there's nothing to deter you from, for example, getting your infield prospects maxed out at every position while they're in the minors. Positional ratings should probably atrophy.

[monkeystyxx]

Playing a player in a position he hasn't already learned during ST will significantly increase his gains in experience at that position already (compared to playing him there during the regular season). That happens naturally, without any additional input from the player.

And positional ratings do currently atrophy; a player who doesn't play in a position for a while will lose experience at that role, although I don't think they 'forget' how to play there completely. Possibly not quickly enough, but it does happen.

Take this guy for instance, not the best example but he works:
http://i.imgur.com/Tt7SmOH.png

Started off as a left fielder, I moved him to first base ages ago (the first year he lead the league in PA was his first year at first base) because he can barely move, and now he wouldn't be able to find left field on a map.

I don't tend to see *too* many "super-utility" guys, with 60+ in more than two positions (unless it makes sense, like a guy with all-around fielding ratings being competent anywhere in the outfield). The game seems to get it about right IMO, where if a guy has more than a couple of positions, he's not very good at any of them. The more positions he has, less worse he is in any particular one. That type of 'jack of all bases' is pretty common in real life. What isn't so common is the Sean Rodriguez type, where they're legitimately good at fielding a large variety of positions. I don't see too many of them in the game though, to be honest. Most guys have a primary and a backup, or three decent positions.

Sometimes I'll see odd combinations (SS/RF or LF/2B for instance). I've currently got a guy on my roster who's 55 3B, 55 CF, 30 SS. Which is a little odd I guess, but I can't say I've ever thought of it as an issue.

[Ron.]

And positional ratings do currently atrophy; a player who doesn't play in a position for a while will lose experience at that role, although I don't think they 'forget' how to play there completely. Possibly not quickly enough, but it does happen.

I know that it can happen at the end of a player's career, but atrophy seems to be so slow for a young player as to be inconsequential.You don't see as many super-utility players as you should just because the AI doesn't exploit it. If you want to exploit it though you can turn most of your above-average defenders into jack-of-all-trades by cycling their positions around in the minors.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by monkeystyxx

Playing a player in a position he hasn't already learned during ST will significantly increase his gains in experience at that position already (compared to playing him there during the regular season). That happens naturally, without any additional input from the player.

And positional ratings do currently atrophy; a player who doesn't play in a position for a while will lose experience at that role, although I don't think they 'forget' how to play there completely. Possibly not quickly enough, but it does happen.

Take this guy for instance, not the best example but he works:
http://i.imgur.com/Tt7SmOH.png

Started off as a left fielder, I moved him to first base ages ago (the first year he lead the league in PA was his first year at first base) because he can barely move, and now he wouldn't be able to find left field on a map.

I don't tend to see *too* many "super-utility" guys, with 60+ in more than two positions (unless it makes sense, like a guy with all-around fielding ratings being competent anywhere in the outfield). The game seems to get it about right IMO, where if a guy has more than a couple of positions, he's not very good at any of them. The more positions he has, less worse he is in any particular one. That type of 'jack of all bases' is pretty common in real life. What isn't so common is the Sean Rodriguez type, where they're legitimately good at fielding a large variety of positions. I don't see too many of them in the game though, to be honest. Most guys have a primary and a backup, or three decent positions.

Sometimes I'll see odd combinations (SS/RF or LF/2B for instance). I've currently got a guy on my roster who's 55 3B, 55 CF, 30 SS. Which is a little odd I guess, but I can't say I've ever thought of it as an issue.

The problem is that the batting AI platoons middle infielders far too much with SS playing 2B and 3B and 2B playing SS or 2B or LF/RF. These platoons don't occur IRL. To be fair I don't know how this works in v17 yet; so there may be good news. In real life even infield backups rarely play "out of position" ie a 2B plays 2B and a SS plays SS.

See this post with some detail.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3876108

Edit: check IF GS by position and compare it with RL

[diamondparoxysm]

I moved Christian Arroyo to left field spring of 2016. It's offseason after 2017 season, he has over 1300 innings there, and he has a 40/80 rating in left. Not bad. I'm likely going to use him as a utility guy in 2018.