Improved AI Trading

Curve Ball Dave · 03-20-2016, 02:08 PM

This was a pleasant development.

I'm at the All Star break in my first season. My team, which is in contention for at least a wild card, needs starting pitching bad. After Max Scherzer and Pete Alexander (I import stars from the past to mix with players of today) it's a dice roll. My starters' ERA has been on the wrong side of the league average all season.

The Washington Senators (my universe has the Senators in the AL and Nationals in the NL because that's they way I roll) are 17.5 games out of first. They offered me Madison Baumgarner in exchange for four prospects, all of whom were playing at no higher than Short Season A. It was an easy decision to pull the trigger. My starting pitching just got a lot better, and the Senators got four good prospects for down the road.

I'm seeing other trades like this where teams not in contention are trading good veterans for multiple prospects and stockpiling prospects. That had been missing in previous versions and it's welcome to see.

Great job on this version so far. I hope there even more good AI surprises down the road.

mitchkenn · 03-20-2016, 02:12 PM

i like the asst. GM giving his 2 cents worth as well. Like the team needs .... great job on improving the trade thing.

DJP53916 · 03-20-2016, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

This was a pleasant development.

I'm at the All Star break in my first season. My team, which is in contention for at least a wild card, needs starting pitching bad. After Max Scherzer and Pete Alexander (I import stars from the past to mix with players of today) it's a dice roll. My starters' ERA has been on the wrong side of the league average all season.

The Washington Senators (my universe has the Senators in the AL and Nationals in the NL because that's they way I roll) are 17.5 games out of first. They offered me Madison Baumgarner in exchange for four prospects, all of whom were playing at no higher than Short Season A. It was an easy decision to pull the trigger. My starting pitching just got a lot better, and the Senators got four good prospects for down the road.

I'm seeing other trades like this where teams not in contention are trading good veterans for multiple prospects and stockpiling prospects. That had been missing in previous versions and it's welcome to see.

Great job on this version so far. I hope there even more good AI surprises down the road.

I haven't seen any of those kinds of trades coming through yet, but I have seen some that seem just screwy for where teams are.

For example, I have 6 teams set to "Rebuild" right now (ATL, CIN, COL, MKE, PHI, and SD). I saw a trade between Baltimore (who are default set at "Win Now" in the game) and Cincinnati that sent a back up infielder and career minor league to the Reds for DiSclafani.

I also have looked at trying to trade Lucroy for a package of prospects, and even looking at picking up two decent, but not highly regarded prospects, or for one good prospect is considered by the other team to be no good. Of course, I was able to trade Kirk Nieuwenhuis to the Giants for one of their top prospects, so who knows?

I've also noticed when I tried to make a trade with a team who has a budget concern, and trying to give them a good player in trade (for example, Lucroy to Tampa Bay), even taking back some higher cost, lesser player from them (like James Loney), they will not budge on prospects at all. Not even talking about trying to get Snell from them, but someone down list a bit, like Jake Bauers or Richie Shaffer, even if I send the entire remaining amount of Lucroy's contract to Tampa Bay in the trade.

I use "average" difficulty settings, and "neutral" trade preference settings.

I do realize there is a lot of randomness within the game as far as trades go, so I know if I played through five or six more seasons, I could get offered something awesome for Lucroy, while I get ignored completely for trying to trade lesser players.

Is there settings I should be using instead of "average" and "neutral?" Should I be looking at another tweak? I don't want to make it too easy to make a trade, but when a team like Texas for example will only trade me Dillon Tate for Lucroy AND Orlando Arcia, that isn't realistic either.

Anyways, I'm probably just over venting about something that's probably pretty random within the game, and it's really not that big of a deal. But if anyone has any ideas for where I could or should look to tweak these settings, I'm all ears.

SirMichaelJordan · 03-20-2016, 03:59 PM

I've seen deals like that in past versions between the AI but yea the AI would never offer those deals to the user in the past.

jmuelly · 03-20-2016, 04:19 PM

I was a bit disturbed when I placed Jonathon Villar on the block and was seeing teams offer quality talent for him. There is no way the Athletics would trade Sonny Gray straight up for Villar.

jmuelly · 03-20-2016, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJP53916

I haven't seen any of those kinds of trades coming through yet, but I have seen some that seem just screwy for where teams are.

For example, I have 6 teams set to "Rebuild" right now (ATL, CIN, COL, MKE, PHI, and SD). I saw a trade between Baltimore (who are default set at "Win Now" in the game) and Cincinnati that sent a back up infielder and career minor league to the Reds for DiSclafani.

I also have looked at trying to trade Lucroy for a package of prospects, and even looking at picking up two decent, but not highly regarded prospects, or for one good prospect is considered by the other team to be no good. Of course, I was able to trade Kirk Nieuwenhuis to the Giants for one of their top prospects, so who knows?

I've also noticed when I tried to make a trade with a team who has a budget concern, and trying to give them a good player in trade (for example, Lucroy to Tampa Bay), even taking back some higher cost, lesser player from them (like James Loney), they will not budge on prospects at all. Not even talking about trying to get Snell from them, but someone down list a bit, like Jake Bauers or Richie Shaffer, even if I send the entire remaining amount of Lucroy's contract to Tampa Bay in the trade.

I use "average" difficulty settings, and "neutral" trade preference settings.

I do realize there is a lot of randomness within the game as far as trades go, so I know if I played through five or six more seasons, I could get offered something awesome for Lucroy, while I get ignored completely for trying to trade lesser players.

Is there settings I should be using instead of "average" and "neutral?" Should I be looking at another tweak? I don't want to make it too easy to make a trade, but when a team like Texas for example will only trade me Dillon Tate for Lucroy AND Orlando Arcia, that isn't realistic either.

Anyways, I'm probably just over venting about something that's probably pretty random within the game, and it's really not that big of a deal. But if anyone has any ideas for where I could or should look to tweak these settings, I'm all ears.

That's all they'll give you? I was able to get Mazara and a mid level 3b.

DJP53916 · 03-20-2016, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmuelly

That's all they'll give you? I was able to get Mazara and a mid level 3b.

Yes. I didn't get hardly anything for an offer for Lucroy. If they offered prospects, they were pretty mediocre. If I was willing to take on a major league player, I could get a good one, but only really expensive ones that didn't fit well on the roster, like a decent and expensive left fielder, which makes very little sense when I have Ryan Braun.

Yet the Giants were willing to give me any one prospect I wanted for Nieuwenhuis, even their top ones.

Probably just random stuff, and maybe next play gets me something better.

jmuelly · 03-20-2016, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJP53916

Yes. I didn't get hardly anything for an offer for Lucroy. If they offered prospects, they were pretty mediocre. If I was willing to take on a major league player, I could get a good one, but only really expensive ones that didn't fit well on the roster, like a decent and expensive left fielder, which makes very little sense when I have Ryan Braun.

Yet the Giants were willing to give me any one prospect I wanted for Nieuwenhuis, even their top ones.

Probably just random stuff, and maybe next play gets me something better.

I'm new to the game yet, is there a way to have a team offer multiple prospects? Anytime I make someone available I only get 1-1 trades.

Honorable_Pawn · 03-20-2016, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmuelly

I'm new to the game yet, is there a way to have a team offer multiple prospects? Anytime I make someone available I only get 1-1 trades.

Oh, that has been a staple for quite some versions now. Give it some time. You'll start to see 5-2 deals etc. Especially as you get closer to the trading deadline and teams know if they are buyers or sellers.

Honorable_Pawn · 03-20-2016, 04:46 PM

The AI was already quite good at trading. So, I'm sure it only got better. What I'd like to see is how they construct rosters now...specifically, how they handle the 40-man.

bull425 · 03-20-2016, 04:46 PM

I have found trading in general between myself and the AI one sided, however, I regularly see teams sending good prospects for marginal talent, or being offered marginal talent for great prospects.

Trading kind of has a random feel to it.

Honorable_Pawn · 03-20-2016, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bull425

Trading kind of has a random feel to it.

Is this in relation to real life? Or is this in relation to version 16?

I play fictional so I don't have preconceived notions about what is a good trade or not. However, I know my fictional league better than most people know real life. I have evaluated lots of trades...lots.

Many times when I thought a trade was bad or one-sided I found out that I was wrong. This happens as you are scouring the league and looking at player histories. You'll come across these trades where you think you utterly crushed the AI only to find out that the AI won that trade and now has 3 quality starters in the line-up.

I suggest being careful thinking that the AI is helpless. If you are the type that consistently fleeces the AI and the waiver wire I suggest you turn the trading difficulty to high or very high.

Honorable_Pawn · 03-20-2016, 05:01 PM

I turn off injury rating information. It is definitely cheating to see that a player is fragile before he ever has his first injury.

If you base your decision upon a player's actual injury history instead of his injury rating then it is much harder. Moreover, you'll find that a lot of times the AI is trying to dump a guy with a bum elbow or something.

One more thing, are you playing with 1-100 or even 1-20 rating scales? If so, that gives you way too much information. Playing at 1-100 or 1-20 is definitely easy-mode. Up your fog of war a little. Once you change the settings a little bit in order to make the game harder it probably won't be as easy as you think.

Remember that if OOTPD set the default settings as too hard many people would cry bloody- murder about how hard it is. Basically, I'm saying up the challenge if you find that default is too easy for you.

24Rocks · 03-20-2016, 05:38 PM

I play Fictional as well so the real players names just cloud judgement IMO, The AI Trading has been pretty good in 16 and so far in my 17 test leagues trading has been ok, the shop a player function Seems to overvalue players a bit idk I haven't tried enough yet.

If you feel you robing the other teams all the time make some house rules.

Example one of mine WAS to add a player to every trade to make it more like your overpaying but dont make it a top spec but a good one just to keep things fair,
this means you might be able to made the trade but your own rules prevent you.
If you feel you have unfair advantage things like that help keep it fair, I think the trading difficulty is a good way to do this to but I think it lowers the amount of discussions I can have I always have to undersell with AI

Just look at the trade from the other teams point of view if you wouldn't do it from there point of view then it isnt fair

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honorable_Pawn

Is this in relation to real life? Or is this in relation to version 16?

I play fictional so I don't have preconceived notions about what is a good trade or not. However, I know my fictional league better than most people know real life. I have evaluated lots of trades...lots.

Many times when I thought a trade was bad or one-sided I found out that I was wrong. This happens as you are scouring the league and looking at player histories. You'll come across these trades where you think you utterly crushed the AI only to find out that the AI won that trade and now has 3 quality starters in the line-up.

I suggest being careful thinking that the AI is helpless. If you are the type that consistently fleeces the AI and the waiver wire I suggest you turn the trading difficulty to high or very high.

(This was a reply to the guy Honorable Pawn is replying to sorry haven't posted in a while)

StanfordBerkely · 03-20-2016, 05:42 PM

Have you noticed more teams that are out of the race selling off players? And teams that are in it getting aggressive?

Curve Ball Dave · 03-20-2016, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StanfordBerkely

Have you noticed more teams that are out of the race selling off players? And teams that are in it getting aggressive?

Yes.

RchW · 03-20-2016, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24Rocks

I play Fictional as well so the real players names just cloud judgement IMO, The AI Trading has been pretty good in 16 and so far in my 17 test leagues trading has been ok, the shop a player function Seems to overvalue players a bit idk I haven't tried enough yet.

If you feel you robbing the other teams all the time make some house rules.

Example one of mine WAS to add a player to every trade to make it more like your overpaying but dont make it a top spec but a good one just to keep things fair,
this means you might be able to made the trade but your own rules prevent you.
If you feel you have unfair advantage things like that help keep it fair, I think the trading difficulty is a good way to do this to but I think it lowers the amount of discussions I can have I always have to undersell with AI

Just look at the trade from the other teams point of view if you wouldn't do it from there point of view then it isnt fair

(This was a reply to the guy Honorable Pawn is replying to sorry haven't posted in a while)

This is the most important point in bold above. If you wouldn't make the trade as the other GM, just don't. Self control is still a good thing.

DJP53916 · 03-20-2016, 10:05 PM

After I downloaded the today's update, I tried another game.

I offered Lucroy to Texas and Washington so far, and while the other team's GM isn't saying "Pleasure doing business with you," at least his commentary is now more "This is close, but I need a little more" than a flat out no way.

I tried that Nieuwenhuis to San Francisco for Beede trade again, and I've gone from "Pleasure doing business with you," to "This is close, but I need a little bit more."

So, I don't know if the update is what's making these responses more in line with what I expect, or if it's purely just a random thing, but at least the more ridiculous replies I got earlier have disappeared.

03-20-2016, 02:08 PM	#1
Curve Ball Dave Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,394	Improved AI Trading This was a pleasant development. I'm at the All Star break in my first season. My team, which is in contention for at least a wild card, needs starting pitching bad. After Max Scherzer and Pete Alexander (I import stars from the past to mix with players of today) it's a dice roll. My starters' ERA has been on the wrong side of the league average all season. The Washington Senators (my universe has the Senators in the AL and Nationals in the NL because that's they way I roll) are 17.5 games out of first. They offered me Madison Baumgarner in exchange for four prospects, all of whom were playing at no higher than Short Season A. It was an easy decision to pull the trigger. My starting pitching just got a lot better, and the Senators got four good prospects for down the road. I'm seeing other trades like this where teams not in contention are trading good veterans for multiple prospects and stockpiling prospects. That had been missing in previous versions and it's welcome to see. Great job on this version so far. I hope there even more good AI surprises down the road. __________________ "Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing"-Warren Spahn.

03-20-2016, 02:12 PM	#2
mitchkenn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Oregon, not by design Posts: 2,872	i like the asst. GM giving his 2 cents worth as well. Like the team needs .... great job on improving the trade thing. __________________ "This is my opening farewell " - Jackson Browne “They make a desolation and call it peace.” ― Agha Shahid Ali "Maybe she just has to sing, for the sake of the song - And who do I think that I am to decide that she's wrong." - Townes Van Zandt "I saw a young man leaning on his wooden crutch - He called out to me, 'Don't ask for so much' And a young woman leaning in her darkened door She cried out to me, 'Why not ask for more?' " - Leonard Cohen "Hello darkness, my old Friend ...." - Paul Simon Before Mays, before DiMaggio, there was Oscar Charleston. "All the lies about Babe Ruth are true." - Waite Hoyt Avatar is the late great Townes Van Zandt. rip.

03-20-2016, 04:46 PM	#10
Honorable_Pawn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 6,407	The AI was already quite good at trading. So, I'm sure it only got better. What I'd like to see is how they construct rosters now...specifically, how they handle the 40-man. __________________ PBA Quickstart for OOTP Background Images Collection All PBA games broadcast live on Steam.

03-20-2016, 05:01 PM	#13
Honorable_Pawn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 6,407	I turn off injury rating information. It is definitely cheating to see that a player is fragile before he ever has his first injury. If you base your decision upon a player's actual injury history instead of his injury rating then it is much harder. Moreover, you'll find that a lot of times the AI is trying to dump a guy with a bum elbow or something. One more thing, are you playing with 1-100 or even 1-20 rating scales? If so, that gives you way too much information. Playing at 1-100 or 1-20 is definitely easy-mode. Up your fog of war a little. Once you change the settings a little bit in order to make the game harder it probably won't be as easy as you think. Remember that if OOTPD set the default settings as too hard many people would cry bloody- murder about how hard it is. Basically, I'm saying up the challenge if you find that default is too easy for you. __________________ PBA Quickstart for OOTP Background Images Collection All PBA games broadcast live on Steam. Last edited by Honorable_Pawn; 03-20-2016 at 05:04 PM.

03-20-2016, 03:59 PM	#4
SirMichaelJordan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,716	I've seen deals like that in past versions between the AI but yea the AI would never offer those deals to the user in the past.

03-20-2016, 04:19 PM	#5
jmuelly Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 161	I was a bit disturbed when I placed Jonathon Villar on the block and was seeing teams offer quality talent for him. There is no way the Athletics would trade Sonny Gray straight up for Villar.

03-20-2016, 04:46 PM	#11
bull425 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 29	I have found trading in general between myself and the AI one sided, however, I regularly see teams sending good prospects for marginal talent, or being offered marginal talent for great prospects. Trading kind of has a random feel to it.

03-20-2016, 05:42 PM	#15
StanfordBerkely Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 62	Have you noticed more teams that are out of the race selling off players? And teams that are in it getting aggressive?

03-20-2016, 10:05 PM	#18
DJP53916 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 175	After I downloaded the today's update, I tried another game. I offered Lucroy to Texas and Washington so far, and while the other team's GM isn't saying "Pleasure doing business with you," at least his commentary is now more "This is close, but I need a little more" than a flat out no way. I tried that Nieuwenhuis to San Francisco for Beede trade again, and I've gone from "Pleasure doing business with you," to "This is close, but I need a little bit more." So, I don't know if the update is what's making these responses more in line with what I expect, or if it's purely just a random thing, but at least the more ridiculous replies I got earlier have disappeared.