FHM 1 to FHM 2 Upgrade Path

[RFroese]

Hi. Will there be an upgrade path to go from FHM 1 (a game that never left beta) to FHM 2?

[Cole]

FHM 2 will be available for 25% off ($29.99) for the first week of its release. That is what we are offering in terms of a discount for this release.

[RFroese]

So let me get this straight. I bought a game in beta. It never truly should have been brought out of beta. Now you are releasing a playable version of the game and you want me to pay for it? And 25% off... what a joke.

How do I go about getting a refund for my FHM1 purchase?

[pgjocki]

I don't get people wanting a free version...have you never gone out to eat and left not fully satisfied? Have you ever gone to a bar and ordered a drink for a friend or girl and then they didn't say thanks?

If you are so strapped for money that you can't afford to spend $30 or $50 for entertainment then maybe you should evaluate some other parts of your spending habits.

[Smetana]

Originally Posted by RFroese

So let me get this straight. I bought a game in beta. It never truly should have been brought out of beta. Now you are releasing a playable version of the game and you want me to pay for it? And 25% off... what a joke.

How do I go about getting a refund for my FHM1 purchase?

You didn't buy a game in beta. You bought a game and didn't like it. It happens. Life is rough, sometimes.

Refund for a game you bought that long ago? Hmm.

[RFroese]

Lets say you go out to an Italian restaurant and are served raw pasta straight from the box with uncooked sauce and raw meatballs. The server tells you repeatedly that the chef will be cooking your food. You really wanted to taste this chefs food, so you stuck around. Then you found out that not only was the chef never coming, but he was instead cooking new dishes in the kitchen. Would you not expect either a refund for the uncooked food you've had sitting at your table or food from the kitchen?

FHM 1 was never released in a playable format. I bought the beta expecting that it would be eventually moved to a playable release. That never happened. So now I am expecting either the new game, or my money back for the first one.

[RFroese]

Originally Posted by Smetana

You didn't buy a game in beta. You bought a game and didn't like it. It happens. Life is rough, sometimes.

Refund for a game you bought that long ago? Hmm.

I bought the game on June 22 2013. It was indeed in beta then. I bought it expecting a playable game.

[Smetana]

Originally Posted by RFroese

Lets say you go out to an Italian restaurant and are served raw pasta straight from the box with uncooked sauce and raw meatballs. The server tells you repeatedly that the chef will be cooking your food. You really wanted to taste this chefs food, so you stuck around. Then you found out that not only was the chef never coming, but he was instead cooking new dishes in the kitchen. Would you not expect either a refund for the uncooked food you've had sitting at your table or food from the kitchen?

FHM 1 was never released in a playable format. I bought the beta expecting that it would be eventually moved to a playable release. That never happened. So now I am expecting either the new game, or my money back for the first one.

FHM was certainly playable. It's quality is debatable, but it was playable.

So, you're demanding a free copy of the new game or a refund on a piece of software you bought two years ago? You should leave the internet immediately and go sit quietly somewhere for a while.

[RFroese]

Originally Posted by Smetana

FHM was certainly playable. It's quality is debatable, but it was playable.

So, you're demanding a free copy of the new game or a refund on a piece of software you bought two years ago? You should leave the internet immediately and go sit quietly somewhere for a while.

No, what I'm demanding is the fulfillment of the beta game that I bought two years ago. It was never done. There were promises made that it would be, but they were never followed through on.

I appreciate your condescending tone. It represents OOTP well.

[Smetana]

Originally Posted by RFroese

condescending

You mis-spelled "rational".

We already had this discussion elsewhere. I've explained that I understand your point of view. But you're coming across as a child holding his breath.

[RFroese]

Originally Posted by Smetana

You mis-spelled "rational".

We already had this discussion elsewhere. I've explained that I understand your point of view. But you're coming across as a child holding his breath.

Here's the thing. On this forum, you represent OOTP. You are involved in game development for them. So your attitude and lack of empathy directly ties you to the manufacturers of the game.

And this further proves to me that OOTP is not an organization with standards for its representation. Nothing about this game has been handled well. This conversation included.

[Smetana]

Originally Posted by RFroese

Here's the thing. On this forum, you represent OOTP. You are involved in game development for them. So your attitude and lack of empathy directly ties you to the manufacturers of the game.

And this further proves to me that OOTP is not an organization with standards for its representation. Nothing about this game has been handled well. This conversation included.

My attitude is very level, as a matter of fact. And I have no shortage of empathy for folks like you who feel they were shafted on FHM. You feel cheated and you feel you didn't get what you paid for. I get it.

You and others feel you're owed something. Free software is what you want. Now, removing the emotion from that concept and examining it from a business point of view...how am I supposed to get behind that thinking and show empathy?

We're just going to have to continue to disagree on the matter.

[RFroese]

Originally Posted by Smetana

My attitude is very level, as a matter of fact. And I have no shortage of empathy for folks like you who feel they were shafted on FHM. You feel cheated and you feel you didn't get what you paid for. I get it.

You and others feel you're owed something. Free software is what you want. Now, removing the emotion from that concept and examining it from a business point of view...how am I supposed to get behind that thinking and show empathy?

We're just going to have to continue to disagree on the matter.

Free Software would be mean something Open Source. Not looking for that. I'm looking for OOTP to follow Microsoft's lead and make something right. Microsoft realized that Windows 8 was a dud, so they gave the Windows 10 upgrade to everyone who had it. Same idea here. FHM 1 was a dud, we all agree. I'm looking for an upgrade to FHM 2 so that when FHM 3 comes along I will buy it. Unlike the current situation where I will never buy anything else from OOTP again.

[Germaniac]

Originally Posted by RFroese

Hi. Will there be an upgrade path to go from FHM 1 (a game that never left beta) to FHM 2?

I absolutely agree ... FHM 1 was not nearly worth its price (and I don't want to talk about all these broken promises - the game itself never should have been released).

Yes, it was playable, but there was no difference to the early betas that were released, and the game never improved on that.

The game was initially released as a beta in March 2013 and finally was officially released in September 2013 as FHM1 ... it was worse than the early betas and all these promised patches never came.

Let's face it - FHM is a major desaster in terms of PR and quality ... and only because the development team promises (again) that everything will be fine ...

You all can jump on the discount at $ 29.99 (which is available to each and everyone ordering now), but I agree - there should have been a considerable discount for all these disapponted FHM1 buyers.

In the end everybody has to make his choice - and mine is that I won't fall for all these promises again.

OOTP is awesome (in terms of communication and quality of the game), FHM is light years away from that in ALL aspects, and unfortunately most of it doesn't have a thing to do with creating a new game from scratch.

[Jaurxe]

You paid for FHM 1. The game wasn't good enough for you. If you wanted a refund, there was an extended period where they allowed refunds (for longer than they initially promised), but you didn't ask for a refund then.

Why on earth would you think that this gets you a free game? The entitlement blows my mind.

[Cole]

This is identical to the thread in the FHM 2 thread and like that, isn't going to go anywhere productive - we don't need this back and forth on the forums.

I'll leave the same post here that I did thre.

Alright, I'm going to close this. People from both sides have had their say and this is just going to get into flame wars and name calling a lot sooner than it will get to anything productive.

The fact of the matter is this ...

Yes, FHM 2014 was not a smooth release. Obviously there was never an intent to deceive or mislead people. A lot of things about the first release were regrettable. Lessons are learned and we move on. If you choose not to move on with the company over $30 poorly spent, that is your decision and you are entitled to it.

The fact is too, anyone who was extremely displeased with FHM 2014 and requested a refund was given one at the time.

Also, while the game had issues, to call it unplayable is a stretch. Plenty of people did play and get enjoyment out of it, and continue to. (I know as I get people who tag us on Twitter with screens, etc. from their games).

Whether or not you care about the developer's livelihoods, believe it or not, they kind of do. These aren't game creating robots, these are humans who have families and responsibilities and thus need to make money. It is their prerogative to make decisions on how much their games will cost and it is up to each customer to decide if they wish to pay that. None of them are happy that people weren't happy with FHM 2014. They want to make it right, they want to make a game everyone can enjoy. They also want to be able to make a living at this so they can continue to do this. Giving away the game for free to a vast majority of customers is not conducive to staying in business.

Lastly, I would have thought Sebastian's response would have put to rest some of people's concerns when he clearly stated they tried to evaluate ways in which FHM 2014 buyers could get a discount of some sort, but it wasn't possible and thus the best solution was the discount for all. I'll leave it below again for people to read once more.

We also discussed to give all FHM 1 customers a discount for the second game but technically that is difficult. We sell the game through eSellerate and there we don't have any complete lists with former customers (at least not in a form that would work) and we sell through Steam. In Steam, it is theoretically possible to link it with another game (e.g. FHM 1) but not out of the box so Valve needs to set it up on a case by case basis. They told us that they had some unsuccessful tries in the past and don't want to do it at the moment.

So giving out a discount to everyone was the last option. And I think it is much better that way (everyone gets it) then punish the loyal fans by not giving a discount at all.

If someone needs longer then a week to decide, just wait for one of the sales later in the season to try it out. By then, everyone should get a pretty good opinion on the web about the game.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by RFroese

I'm looking for OOTP to follow Microsoft's lead and make something right. Microsoft realized that Windows 8 was a dud, so they gave the Windows 10 upgrade to everyone who had it. Same idea here. FHM 1 was a dud, we all agree. I'm looking for an upgrade to FHM 2 so that when FHM 3 comes along I will buy it. Unlike the current situation where I will never buy anything else from OOTP again.

I also just have to interject on this.

You are comparing a multi-billion company in Microsoft to a relatively tiny game developer that I believe has less than a dozen employees, and even fewer who specifically work on the hockey game.

Providing free upgrade software to someone is obviously something Microsoft is in a much better position to do than OOTP Developments. You say you want FHM 2 for free so when FHM 3 comes along you will buy it ... Yet don't seem to understand that if FHM 2 is given out for free, there will be no FHM 3, as developers need to be paid to make a living and continue on creating this game.