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Old 07-30-2015, 02:42 AM   #1
lwlion
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AI Managers and Messed up Lineups

This is getting frustrating.

I have had a couple of managers do this and they keep getting fired for it.

Here is what is happening. I am the GM. I hire good to legendary managers. Most times these managers want complete control of the lineup. Fine. I'll get the players, you manage them. I really don't want to get into the nitty gritty of game management.

However, the AI managers are complete idiots when it comes to setting a lineup.

I have a few players that are rated around 65 or so and the scout is justified in that rating based on past performance. They are some of the best players in my organization.

But my idiot managers constantly want to start the backups which are rated in the 40s and in some cases the 30s. I'm not talking about a platoon situation. The managers actually thing a guy that the scout rates in the 30s and 40s and has stats that back that rating up should start over a player who is one of the best on the team.

THIS MAKES NO SENSE!!!!

In order to get the lineup I want to see, I have to greatly weaken my bench.

It is getting so back, I am considering making all backups with actual and potential ratings of 20.

Or, hiring the worst managers who will allow me to set the lineups and depth charts and just let them manage the games.

Any suggestions at all.

Game is in GM mode by the way.

Thanks and sorry is it looks like I'm POed. I kind of am.
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Old 07-30-2015, 04:34 AM   #2
Markus Heinsohn
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Looks like your manager has a different opinion than your scout on the player's ability
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Old 07-30-2015, 05:02 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Looks like your manager has a different opinion than your scout on the player's ability
It would be nice to know what a manager thinks of a player. Basically, their own scouting report. Right now it is mostly guesswork as to how they are going to use a player if they have complete control which can make signing/trading for players frustrating.
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Old 07-30-2015, 05:36 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lwlion View Post
This is getting frustrating.

I have had a couple of managers do this and they keep getting fired for it.

Here is what is happening. I am the GM. I hire good to legendary managers. Most times these managers want complete control of the lineup. Fine. I'll get the players, you manage them. I really don't want to get into the nitty gritty of game management.

However, the AI managers are complete idiots when it comes to setting a lineup.

I have a few players that are rated around 65 or so and the scout is justified in that rating based on past performance. They are some of the best players in my organization.

But my idiot managers constantly want to start the backups which are rated in the 40s and in some cases the 30s. I'm not talking about a platoon situation. The managers actually thing a guy that the scout rates in the 30s and 40s and has stats that back that rating up should start over a player who is one of the best on the team.

THIS MAKES NO SENSE!!!!

In order to get the lineup I want to see, I have to greatly weaken my bench.

It is getting so back, I am considering making all backups with actual and potential ratings of 20.

Or, hiring the worst managers who will allow me to set the lineups and depth charts and just let them manage the games.

Any suggestions at all.

Game is in GM mode by the way.

Thanks and sorry is it looks like I'm POed. I kind of am.
Amen, brother.
I don't really find this issue cute. I'm starting to think this is someone's idea of a "feature". I'm pretty sure this is supposed to be some kind of challenge, to deal with managers who make head scratching personnel decisions. This would be ok if there were some mechanism for the GM to work with the manager but there isn't. You as the GM invest the money in the player only to watch him sit on the bench, and there is nothing you can do about it. You can't ask the manager why he thinks a career utility man is better starting over a star caliber player or negotiate with him about it or just flat put your foot down and insist upon a certain player starting. You have to make the utility man go away, by either trade or holding him down in the minors. That's it. This "feature" is broken.

Last edited by Charley575; 07-30-2015 at 05:40 AM.
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Old 07-30-2015, 06:33 AM   #5
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Well, you obviously do not have to play in that mode and also can maintain some control based on who you hire. I think calling it broken is wrong. It definitely has room for improvement and hopefully they have plans for that.
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Old 07-30-2015, 09:10 AM   #6
Markus Heinsohn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain King View Post
It would be nice to know what a manager thinks of a player. Basically, their own scouting report. Right now it is mostly guesswork as to how they are going to use a player if they have complete control which can make signing/trading for players frustrating.
This is not so easy... the AI essentially uses a combination of scouting reports and their own tendencies for evaluation. And these are calculated on the fly and not stored anywhere. Hence, you simply have to let them do their thing or simply hire a manager that lets you set your own lineups.
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Old 07-30-2015, 09:54 AM   #7
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I kind of feel like the manager's opinion should mirror the scouts opinion. This simulates an "organizational" opinion of the player. After all, managers don't make decisions in a vacuum; financial considerations and the opinion of GM/Ownership at least influence their thinking.

If Toronto trades for Tulowitzki and the manager benches him, what would happen?
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Old 07-30-2015, 10:00 AM   #8
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It's broken...
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Old 07-30-2015, 10:02 AM   #9
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Make your bench stronger instead of weaker and it won't be that big a deal.
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Old 07-30-2015, 10:49 AM   #10
IsaacR
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I have a Legendary manager who allows me to have force-start input on lineups....

Just have to find a manager who thinks like you do. This guy I have hates the hit and run, steals bases, and has a quick hook, all that I like.
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Old 07-30-2015, 10:52 AM   #11
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To the OP: You can "force start" players by enabling commissioner mode. When you disable commish mode, the force start setting will stick.
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Old 07-30-2015, 10:58 AM   #12
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This is not so easy... the AI essentially uses a combination of scouting reports and their own tendencies for evaluation. And these are calculated on the fly and not stored anywhere. Hence, you simply have to let them do their thing or simply hire a manager that lets you set your own lineups.
Yep..... Uses everything except statistics.
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Old 07-30-2015, 11:30 AM   #13
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Yep..... Uses everything except statistics.
So if the backup is hitting 0.350 he should start?
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Old 07-30-2015, 11:36 AM   #14
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Last edited by CONN CHRIS; 07-30-2015 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 07-30-2015, 11:44 AM   #15
Cinnamon J. Scudworth
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I love GM mode and share some of these frustrations. Based on their track record, it's definitely something I look forward to OOTP Developments continuing to refine in coming versions. But there are enough workarounds as noted in this thread that I wouldn't call it "broken."
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Old 07-30-2015, 11:51 AM   #16
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To the OP: You can "force start" players by enabling commissioner mode. When you disable commish mode, the force start setting will stick.
This was actually disabled in the last patch If your manager controls player strategy, he will ignore your force start recommendations.
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Old 07-30-2015, 12:38 PM   #17
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I love the split between GM and Manager now. My manager will not let me touch anything in my team which can be annoying but he has also delivered a lot of success for the team. Every time it comes to renewing his contract I have to weigh up those decisions versus the success we've had. It adds a new dynamic to the game.
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Old 07-30-2015, 01:18 PM   #18
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I've played two complete season in v16 and the AI manager lineups are light years better than v15. I had only one player, on a platoon, that I disagreed with for all 4 lineups.

In previous versions I would have 2-4 force starts in every lineup.
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Old 07-30-2015, 03:42 PM   #19
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I have to apologize because I too, was venting a little frustration earlier. So I'll take another pass at this and try to keep my points as rational as possible.
It should go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. I love this game and have been playing it since 2003. Maybe that's why my feelings about things like this run so deep.
I was wrong to use the word broken. I actually think it is not broken, but rather this behavior is the intended result.
Now let me say why I don't like that.

Let's look at the following two players as just one example.
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Of these two players, which should start in Right Field?
The only thing Anderson has over Rubio is speed, not adequate justification for benching Rubio's bat. If anyone thinks they have a compelling argument for Anderson over Rubio, I'd like to entertain it.
I can only think of two explanations:
1.) The manager likes Anderson for his speed and rates him over Rubio on that basis alone. If this is the case, speed is too highly valued, in my opinion, and this needs tweaking. No manager in his right mind would keep Rubio's bat on the bench simply because he is a slow base runner, in order to start Anderson, who will not be on base enough for his speed to be a significant factor. If the manager prefers speedy players, this is fine, but speed should be a kind of tie breaker between two similarly talented players, and not a whammy that allows utility quality players to keep a .901 OPS on the bench.
2.) ...and this one is a little sinister, but I can't help but entertain it, given the absurdity of the personnel decisions AI mangers make. Yes. It is just possible that in order to "spice things up" a system has been put in place to make managers like or dislike certain players, somewhat at random, regardless of ratings or performance, so that users playing in GM only mode will have the occasional problem for which they will need to come up with a creative solution. If this is case, please try to hide it better. I traded Anderson after the '01 season because it was the only way I could keep Rubio in the lineup, I thought. The next season, the new utility man was starting in Right Field. F***!!! The inescapable conclusion is that my manager just doesn't like Rubio, and there's no good explanation for it.

Secondly, while it's fine for the game to have managers who insist upon having total control, that should be something that is settled at contract time. It would be fine if, during contract negotiations, the manager says, "I insist upon total control of lineups and pitching staff decisions", and then I would have the option of saying, "No, thank you", or "I agree", in which case we can both sign our names on the line and live with the result. How it should not work is I hire a manager who lets me make certain decisions at first, but then decides, at two years into a five year contract, to say no me, "No, dear GM. You may not make any lineup or pitching staff selections any more. I, your employee, have unilaterally decided to take that away from you." This happens in the game, and it should not.
In conclusion, I'm not opposed to the GM only dynamic, wherein the manager makes most of the on field personnel decisions, being a part of the game, in principle. I do think that it needs some tweaks and checks to ensure the user does not find his/her self in an absurd situation with no solution.

Thank you.
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Old 07-30-2015, 04:16 PM   #20
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Maybe I'm just not understanding -- How did Rúbio get over 600 PAs if you couldn't keep him in the lineup?
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