If injuries are pre-determined are scores too?

[Toast]

I went to the team page prior to simming a game that said my 1st baseman was out for a week with an ankle injury. I went to the line up page and replaced the place him with a sub. Note, the line up page did indicate the 1st baseman was injured. I then simmed the game and reviewed the box score. It showed the injured player in question was hurt during the game not prior to the game as show previously on the team page. The box score also showed my sub being inserted. I then went back to the team page that informed me of the injury but there was no statement as such. Also note, this injury notification didn't come to me in the form of an e-mail to the manager as they usually do.

My question is: "If a player's injury seems to be pre-determined prior to the playing of the game is its' score also pre-determined? If that's the case then there really is no need to play out the games. OOTP as such then become of pure management simulation out side of the actual game proper.

Toast.

[David Watts]

Wow! Not even sure how to respond to this one.

[Lou Gehrig]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Wow! Not even sure how to respond to this one.

How about this...
All of us wouldn't be playing OOTP if the game results were pre-determined.

[Ruthian23]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Wow! Not even sure how to respond to this one.

I guess for the sake of any prospective purchasers who might be viewing the forums, starting with "no, scores are not predetermined and neither are injuries" would be a start.

[The Wolf]

Periodically the occasional conspiracy theorist posts on the forum. Usually there is no talking to them and all we can do is shake our collective head in amazement that anyone could be so foolish. And, of course, sometimes they're just a troll.

[Toast]

Well I'm very disappointed by your reply. I've bought OOTP since 2007 and am a fan throughout but this event I described is a concern. It seems to me - after viewing this board for years - that any time one bring up a valid concern they are called a troll. Depending on the creditability of the replier - as in following - this seems like another form of censorship. Inotherwords, 'play the game kid and keep quiet'.

Toast

[Ruthian23]

Originally Posted by Toast

Well I'm very disappointed by your reply. I've bought OOTP since 2007 and am a fan throughout but this event I described is a concern. It seems to me - after viewing this board for years - that any time one bring up a valid concern they are called a troll. Depending on the creditability of the replier - as in following - this seems like another form of censorship. Inotherwords, 'play the game kid and keep quiet'.

Toast

Here's an easy test to see if scores are pre-determined:

1. Save your league before any game as a quickstart.
2. Open that quickstart and play out the game. Note the score.
3. Open the quickstart again and play out the game again. This time, after the first inning, put your pitcher in center field, your centerfielder at first base, and your first baseman at pitcher. Play out the rest of the game. See if the score is the same.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Toast

Well I'm very disappointed by your reply. I've bought OOTP since 2007 and am a fan throughout but this event I described is a concern. It seems to me - after viewing this board for years - that any time one bring up a valid concern they are called a troll. Depending on the creditability of the replier - as in following - this seems like another form of censorship. Inotherwords, 'play the game kid and keep quiet'.

Toast

One incident does not qualify as a valid concern. Do you have any more examples of predetermined injuries?

Edit:

Please post the box score.

[frangipard]

Originally Posted by Toast

Well I'm very disappointed by your reply. I've bought OOTP since 2007 and am a fan throughout but this event I described is a concern. It seems to me - after viewing this board for years - that any time one bring up a valid concern they are called a troll. Depending on the creditability of the replier - as in following - this seems like another form of censorship. Inotherwords, 'play the game kid and keep quiet'.

Toast

Oh, bollocks. I do more more posting about my various complaints and suggestions than anything else, and nobody's called me a troll or told me to shut up.

Here's the deal: the injury situation you are describing sounds very, very unlikely to most people and so they are going to be skeptical.

So instead of jumping straight ahead to claims of "the whole game is rigged!" why not first ask about the injury situation and post screenshots of the game?

[HuachucaThunder]

If you weren't notified by e-mail of the injury, was it a day-to-day injury? And unless you have the box checked checked to notify you of a player with day-to-day injuries, you would receive no e-mail about it. Did you replace the player BEFORE you actually started the game, or did you replace after you started the game. If you replaced after you started the game, even before the first pitch, he would show up as being in the lineup and then replaced with the sub. That has happened to me before. I just went with the incident and chalked it up to the player was running out to his position and maybe turned his ankle or even I missed it after the last game he played and had to be replaced in the next played game after the lineup was already set..

[RchW]

Did you regenerate depth chart after replacing him on the team page? If not then the game would initially have him in the lineup and replace him before the sim. Posting a box score will confirm this or not.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Toast

Well I'm very disappointed by your reply. I've bought OOTP since 2007 and am a fan throughout but this event I described is a concern. It seems to me - after viewing this board for years - that any time one bring up a valid concern they are called a troll. Depending on the creditability of the replier - as in following - this seems like another form of censorship. Inotherwords, 'play the game kid and keep quiet'.

Toast

More nonsense. I wrote "And, of course, sometimes they're just a troll." That's not calling you a troll, that's a general observation. Of course, if you were trolling, you would've reacted just as you did. So who knows.

If you think you have found a bug, report a bug. Posting ludicrous conspiracy theory nonsense, on the other hand, will pretty much always get you mocked.

[Le Grande Orange]

Toast, two phrases to recall when it comes to statistical analysis: confirmation bias, sample size. I suspect you're running afoul of both.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Toast, two phrases to recall when it comes to statistical analysis: confirmation bias, sample size. I suspect you're running afoul of both.

Those phrases are probably something to keep in mind before one totally commits to a career in porn.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Those phrases are probably something to keep in mind before one totally commits to a career in porn.

Well, we know what's on YOUR mind this fine Easter morning.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Well, we know what's on YOUR mind this fine Easter morning.

He is risen

[endgame]

Thunder's on the right track here, I think, beginning with the incremental inquiries in each step that prompted the 'issue' or inquiry, rather than reacting to the, yes questionably, sentiment of the entire post. Which message first appeared and where? What screen? What was next? Define and scrutinize the communication of information to the user and typically an explanation eventually arises: flawed interpretation of the info, simply a bug, improper preparation or understanding of how to prepare, etc....

Users need, as suggested, to be able to articulate exact steps coupled with screenshots if possible in order to get useable advice and comment. Generalizing and presumptive thinking usually goes nowhere, whether an initial concern or the response to that concern.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Toast, two phrases to recall when it comes to statistical analysis: confirmation bias, sample size. I suspect you're running afoul of both.

LGO is absolutely right. Every year someone shows up swearing that they have seen something that they were looking for that really isn't there, or making judgments off of sample sizes that are meaningless (see the VORP thread for a classic example).

I will once again post the data on baseball sample size stabilization points (the points at which statistics finally become reliable) that was painstakingly compiled by Russell Carlton of BP, because everyone who plays OOTP should know this.

Stabilization Points for Offensive Stats

• 60 PA: Strikeout rate
• 120 PA: Walk rate
• 240 PA: HBP rate
• 290 PA: Single rate
• 1610 PA: XBH rate
• 170 PA: HR rate

• 910 AB: AVG
• 460 PA: OBP
• 320 AB: SLG
• 160 AB: ISO

• 80 BIP: GB rate
• 80 BIP: FB rate
• 600 BIP: LD rate
• 50 FBs: HR per FB
• 820 BIP: BABIP

Stabilization Points for Pitching Stats

• 70 BF: Strikeout rate
• 170 BF: Walk rate
• 640 BF: HBP rate
• 670 BF: Single rate
• 1450 BF: XBH rate
• 1320 BF: HR rate

• 630 BF: AVG
• 540 BF: OBP
• 550 AB: SLG
• 630 AB: ISO

• 70 BIP: GB rate
• 70 BIP: FB rate
• 650 BIP: LD rate
• 400 FB: HR per FB
• 2000 BIP: BABIP

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by David Watts

He is risen

You are so going to Hell for that, David Watts.

[OakDragon]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Toast, two phrases to recall when it comes to statistical analysis: confirmation bias, sample size. I suspect you're running afoul of both.

I'm beginning to believe a brief primer on both ought to be included with the manual... perhaps even in a read-me that comes with the game.